Talk:Marie Séraphique

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 09:06, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

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Shackled captives on the Marie Séraphique

• ... that the shackled captives (pictured) on the slave-ship Marie Séraphique were painted in detail?
• Source: Radburn & Eltis (2019) says: The illustration is "the most accurate contemporary depiction of ship board conditions in the transatlantic slave trade during the late eighteenth century".
  • ALT0b:... that the most accurate contemporary picture of conditions on slave-ships is an illustration of the Marie Séraphique (pictured)? Source: same as above

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Black-and-red broadbill

Created by Desertarun (talk). Self-nominated at 09:23, 19 August 2021 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article is new enough, long enough and sourced. qpq has been provided and no copyvio. Picture is free, looks good and in the article. Hook is cited, but I'm not sure if it does the source justice. How does ALT0b look to you @Desertarun: as a tweak of the first hook? BuySomeApples (talk) 23:03, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi BuySomeApples, thanks for the review. ALT0B looks good to me. Desertarun (talk) 07:08, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Awesome @Desertarun:! BuySomeApples (talk) 16:56, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

ALT0b to T:DYK/P6

Attribution of opinions

Morning Desertarun and thanks for writing this article. Just a quick note: the DYK hook relies on a quote, saying that the picture is "the most accurate contemporary picture of conditions...". However, that quote is not attributed to anyone in the article, and it is clearly a matter of opinion rather than an absolute fact, so it needs to be attributed per MOS:QUOTEPOV. Note that this attribution doesn't have to go in the hook, but it does need to be present in the article text. Please could you add some detail on who said it? Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 09:51, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@Amakuru:, Hi, the quote comes from Radburn, the main source in the article. He works at Lancaster University as a lecturer of The Atlantic World 1500-1800. It is this fellow [1]. Desertarun (talk) 09:58, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@Desertarun: great, thanks. If it's OK, I've tweaked it to add slightly more detail than just "Radburn", so that readers can judge what the origin of the quote is. Pinging reviewer and promoter @BuySomeApples and Theleekycauldron: as well, just for future reference - if something is written as a quote, it's worth checking in the article as to whether the quote is attributed. Cheers.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:04, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@Amakuru: That looks good, thanks. Desertarun (talk) 10:06, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Minor technical detail

Assuming the painting depicting it is accurate, Marie Séraphique was a brig, not a ship. This won't affect most of the categories the article fits under, but in describing the vessel itself, the article might well be corrected. For people who care about this kind of thing, the brig's smaller size would reduce its speed a bit and its reward-to-risk ratio by something more, but would enable it to enter shallower waters and worse harbors. This is a bit surprising because the major Atlantic maritime powers had not abolished the slave trade yet, and would not for several decades, so speed should have been much more important than nimbleness when Marie Séraphique was built. Scutigera (talk) 01:13, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

The source in the article says it is rigged like a snow (ship). It doesn't say definitively it is a snow, however, nor does it say it is a brig. If we had to choose snow or brig I'd probably go with snow, but I don't know enough to be certain. Desertarun (talk) 08:42, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

She is neither a ship nor a brig. There is no doubt that she is a snow from the pictures used here. No other rig has a trysail mast immediately abaft the mainmast. The article "Snow (ship)" is misleadingly named as it implies to the unknowledgeable that a snow is a ship, which is not the case. It is, rather, a sailing vessel of which snows and ships are two entirely different varieties. Technically, snows, ships, brigs and so on are clearly distinguished. The term "snow" should be used here for accuracy, and "slaver" or "slaving vessel" should be used if you want to describe her use without misleading.Cliff (talk) 15:15, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

I concur; I should have magnified the picture before I decided to call it a brig. That's what I get for Wikiing under the influence of sleeplessness. Scutigera (talk) 00:33, 16 September 2021 (UTC)