Talk:Marie-Aimée Lullin

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 September 2021 and 11 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Nic Yost.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:43, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Swiss versus Genevan categories

I've restored one of the categories removed because there is not a Geneva specific version (Category:18th-century Swiss women scientists‎)[1] @Sapphorain:, if you are going to remove categories you deem "incorrect" please place them in an appropriate alternative, instead of removing them. Until there's a geneva specific version, they should be placed in the swiss version. Mason (talk) 22:33, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

@Smasongarrison: Convenience is never an excuse for imprecision. If an article is not correctly described by a category, it should simply not be included in it. And especially so if the said category consequently contains only two entries, one correct and the other one incorrect ! And especially also if it is in contradiction with another (correct) category. An eighteenth century scientist from the Republic of Geneva could of course also be an eighteenth-century Swiss woman scientist, but only if she also held a Swiss citizenship in the eighteenth-century (by being a burgher in Vaud of Freiburg, for instance). Which is not the case in the present instance, so the category is misleading. So no, sorry, this is really too absurd and I will revert you.--Sapphorain (talk) 11:46, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

"if you are going to remove categories you deem "incorrect" please place them in an appropriate alternative, instead of removing them. " Why couldn't you just add them to the eighteenth-century woman scientist? That's all I was suggesting as an alternative. Mason (talk) 13:39, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Okay, thank you then: but why didn't you do that in the first place?--Sapphorain (talk) 14:01, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Two reasons: 1) I had forgotten about your disagreement over genevan categories when I made the first change. 2) I thought it was important to emphasize that your removals without adding a parent category are disruptive. So please don't just remove categories, please provide an alternative that doesn't remove all the information. Mason (talk) 14:05, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

@Smasongarrison: I encourage you to contact wikipedia and start a discussion there about this users refusal to categorize people living withing the borders of modern Switzerland, before Switzerland existed, as Swiss. This user insists, that Switzerland will be a exception to the rule in this regard, depsite the fact that all other countries in wikipedia follow that principle. Eventually, the discussion must be had. I do recomend starting that discussion, Smasongarrison. It is better than to tip-toe around this user, in the same fashion as I, and others, have been doing for years. --Aciram (talk) 14:32, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome to bring it as you seem more familiar with the history; I've encouraged them to bring this up in CFD. Mason (talk) 14:37, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

@Smasongarrison: Sapphorian have no reason to bring this to CFD, since they are satisfied avoiding it and protecting their own personal preference around Switzerland. It must be brought up by someone who wants Sapphorian to change, not Sapphorian who does not want to change. I have exhaustive syndrom and neither the energy nor the time, but it is needed to bring this up eventually, by someone with more energy than me, since this is a problem wich must be solved. --Aciram (talk) 15:47, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Without knowing about how this is handles with Citizens of other states, such as Prussia or Catalonia, I would totally agree with @Smasongarrison:, because they were not Swiss indeed. Now, given that Leonardo da Vinci was from the Republic of Florence, I think it makes sense to classify people as "Swiss [professionals]", if they lived in areas that currently are in part of the Swiss Confederation and the Republic of Geneva, which continues to exist within the Confederation. Because, I mean it makes sense, to classify people accordingly. Otherwise, we have to blow up the Categories to an incredible amount of Catergories. So, in short, I agree with @Smasongarrison:, that we need to be precise, and that these people were not Swiss, but also with @Sapphorain: in that we need to be pragmatic. In "my" article André Falquet, I also applied the practice accordingly. – Même, ainsi périssent les ennemis de la République! :-) Let's go for a fondue? --Saippuakauppias ⇄ 22:17, 17 February 2024 (UTC)