Talk:Mari Lwyd/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: J Milburn (talk · contribs) 12:15, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

This looks like a really interesting topic. I'm happy to offer a review. Josh Milburn (talk) 12:15, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

• "First recorded in 1800, a number of accounts testifying" This doesn't work- it was was the practice first recorded in 1800, not the "number of accounts"
  • I've changed this sentence to "The custom was first recorded in 1800, with subsequent accounts of it being produced into the early twentieth century." Midnightblueowl (talk) 21:36, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• "The tradition has also inspired depictions in artistic performs, for In the work of both the painter Clive Hicks-Jenkins and the poet Vernon Watkins." All over the place
  • Oh my, how did I miss that. I've amended this passage! Midnightblueowl (talk) 21:36, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
    • Here's a link to Watkins' poem if you want to use it: [1]. It was first published in London by Faber and Faber in his Ballad of the Mari Lwyd, and other poems (1941). It was his first published book. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:31, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
      • Thanks Martin; MBW, I'd be inclined to think that a passage from the poem in a quotebox of some kind would be a great addition! Josh Milburn (talk) 20:39, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
      • I agree. The first five lines might do. Or maybe lines 393-408? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:49, 29 February 2016 (UTC) Married Black Woman??
        • I've now added the quotebox. Midnightblueowl (talk) 15:30, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

• "besom broom" This will not be familiar to many readers; our article besom suggests that merely "besom" (though I think a link would be necessary) would be sufficient.
  • Agreed and changed. 20:57, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• "while Judy brushed the ground, house walls, and windows, with a broom" The comma after "windows" needs to go, I think; I'd remove the one after "walls", too, but I'll leave that up to you
  • I'll leave that after "walls" is that's okay (I'm very fond of the Oxford comma!) although will remove that which appears after "windows". Midnightblueowl (talk) 21:09, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• "that during the Medieval" Can you use "Medieval" like this?
  • I have seen it used like this, but I'll rephrase it to the more familiar "Medieval period". Midnightblueowl (talk) 20:57, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• You link hoodening and East Kent twice. Personally, I'd be inclined to say that it may not belong in the description section (though I see the advantage to keeping it in terms of paragraph lengths)
  • That's odd, I can no longer find these extraneous links. Midnightblueowl (talk) 21:17, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
    • I've made a change. Josh Milburn (talk) 11:31, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

• "while the latter was found largely in North Wales and the former largely in the South" This doesn't read quite right to me
  • I've changed this to "Further casting doubt on this idea is the fact that there is no known historical link between the Mari Lwyd, which was found in South Wales, and the Morris dance, which was instead concentrated in the north of the country". Midnightblueowl (talk) 21:45, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• I assume that Festival of the Ass is the same as the feast of the ass? If so, a link/redirect would be appropriate.
  • Yes, that's great, thank you. I was surprised that Festival of the Ass didn't like to anything, but that explains things. Midnightblueowl (talk) 21:25, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• You've talked a lot about Peate before you provided a redlink. He should probably be linked at first mention (some people are not keen on redlinks to names, but I'm certainly not opposed)
  • Changed. Midnightblueowl (talk) 21:40, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• Ok, there's a bit of an issue with File:Mari Lwyd at Llangynwyd.jpg. If it's non-free, it's too big, and, in any case, probably does not meet NFCC#3 and NFCC#8. However, I am fairly sure that it is PD in both the US and UK; IANAL, but I think {{PD-old-70}} applies to both providing Evans died over 70 years ago. If it's this British photographer called Frederick Evans, he did.
  • Many thanks; I've added the PD tag. Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:28, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

• Given the first record, I think "Nineteenth century" should be renamed "Eighteenth and nineteenth century"
  • Changed. Midnightblueowl (talk) 21:40, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• Not a massive deal, but the last paragraph of the section doesn't really seem to say what the changing social conditions were. What changed? Why?
  • Unfortunately the source doesn't specify. That was something that I picked up on when I first read it. Midnightblueowl (talk) 21:31, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• Is "Graig Penllyn" the same as Penllyn, Vale of Glamorgan? If it's a village in its own right, it should be redlinked.
  • It certainly seems to be (although I'm far from an expert on this part of Britain). I've added the link in the article. 21:54, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
    • It's actually a separate hamlet, about a mile further up the hill. It has an old chapel: [2]. Here's the Barley Mow. But I'm not sure how much added value there is in adding a red link for it. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:28, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• Is Lois Blake definitely male? I've never heard of a male with that name.
  • I think that that is simply my error. I've changed it to female pronouns. Midnightblueowl (talk) 20:57, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• "giving the custom a new expressive life" A bit rhetorical; do you have a source saying this?
  • I agree, it is too rhetorical; and no, I have no source, this was a piece of text that I inherited from older versions of the page, I believe, and which I left as it was. I have now removed it, however. Midnightblueowl (talk) 21:31, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• "In 1919, H. W. Evans recorded the existence of a similar custom which had existed in Solva, Pembrokeshire circa 1840, during his mother's childhood. He described it as a "Mari Lwyd" and provided a drawing of it using his mother's recollections as a basis, although was unaware of how it had been used." This needs attention- you seem to alternate between the Mari Lwyd qua custom and Mari Lwyd qua hobby horse.
  • I've made some prose edits here. Midnightblueowl (talk) 18:58, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

• That video is pretty fantastic. I wonder if you should make more of a fuss about it in the article.
  • Yes, it is a great video. If only more Wikipedia articles on folk customs had them. However I'm unsure how I could make more of it in the article itself to be honest, given that we don't have reliable sources discussing that particular video itself. Midnightblueowl (talk) 21:17, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
    • I'm just thinking aloud, so please just go with whatever you think is best, but I wonder if you could move it to the lead; perhaps you could lead with a historical photograph and a contemporary video? I'm not really sure, just some ideas. Josh Milburn (talk) 11:39, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
      • I'd be a little hesitant about putting the video in the lede as I feel that a crisp picture of the Mari Lwyd serves a better purpose (those with poorer, slower internet connections, particularly in developing countries, might not be able to view the video, for instance). However we could go for a historical photograph in the lede. Midnightblueowl (talk) 19:24, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

• You seem to be missing a location on your Prat source.
  • Corrected. Midnightblueowl (talk) 21:25, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• Perhaps you could neaten up the recordings section a little? I think it's valuable (it reminds me of the traditional encyclopedia articles which list publications of likenesses) but it's a bit messy right now. The external links section could be a bit neater, too.
  • I've tidied up the Recordings section a little, although without any specific citation formats for audio recordings it probably lacks the neatness of the other citation sections, unfortunately. I shall also tidy up the External Links section. Midnightblueowl (talk) 17:55, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

A great read and a fascinating topic- thanks for putting the time into this article. I'm happy with the sources and images other than those points I have already mentioned. (GAC is not the place for formatting quibbles.) Josh Milburn (talk) 13:49, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

• Many thanks for your comments, Josh - I'll get around to dealing with the last few when I can grab the chance (which will probably be next week now). Midnightblueowl (talk) 22:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
  • I've responded to all of your points now, Josh. Do let me know if there is anything else that jumps to mind. All the best, Midnightblueowl (talk) 19:24, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
    • Ok, great, I'm happy with how the article's looking, and I'm happy to promote at this time. Great article and a fascinating topic. Josh Milburn (talk) 10:56, 5 March 2016 (UTC)