Talk:Marcia Williams

Biography: Peerage and Baronetage / Politics and Government

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"Politician"?

Marcia Williams is described (and categorised) as being a Labour politician, yet she has never held any political role. She is most famous for being Harold Wilson's political and personal secretary, but those are administrative roles. Similarly, she has yet to speak on any matter in the House of Lords, although she attends as a Labour peer.

I note that Alistair Campbell, a much more high-profile figure in the Blair years than Williams ever was during Wilson's administration, is not listed as a politician.--Stevouk (talk) 00:13, 7 December 2007 (UTC)heir s[reply]

She was not primarily a politician - the only way she could be described as such is by virtue of being a peer. I've modified the article and description accordingly. TrottieTrue (talk) 00:30, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Marcia Williams and Alistair Campbell are both political advisers who not only provided important advice but almost certainly acted in their superiors name from time to time. It is appropriate to refer to them as politicians, albeit unelected.---- ((User:oldasiahand)) 9 December 2007

I looked in vain for anything substantive about the scandals in which she was involved. I've just been reading Auberon Waugh's diaries of the period, which accord with my memory of the time. But I see she is still alive, so probably the libel laws are involved. Roger Pearse (talk 18:22, 18 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

She was not a politician. She was a political advisor. IXIA (talk) 21:47, 24 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Given that she is now dead, libel laws no longer apply, and it is time the article stopped being so coy.Paulturtle (talk) 05:18, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Disputed content

Referred to BLP/Noticeboard because of long-running edit warring potentially affecting the neutral point of view of the biography of a living person. — Richardguk (talk) 13:31, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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External links modified

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Assault by George Caunt

I was doing some research and came across an old newspaper article embedded in here https://secretlibraryleeds.net/2019/07/12/report-into-the-investigation-of-the-series-of-murders-and-assaults-on-women-in-the-north-of-england-between-1975-and-1980/ which is titled 'I hurled Marcia Across the Room'. In it is an extraordinary account by George Caunt of how he silenced Marcia by throwing her across the room in Harold Wilson's presence. I think it is from the Evening Standard. It is extraordinary because it seems that in the day this was seen as justified simply because of her anger and ranting, and he showed no shame that he had used physical force against her. see also https://www.nytimes.com/1977/02/09/archives/british-enjoying-balmy-days-get-look-at-some-dirty-laundry.html SandrinaHatman (talk) 08:54, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wilson breaking into Marcia Falkender's garage

In the 'Personal Life' section, this article currently makes the, to my eyes strange, claim - without any further context or explanation - that former Prime Minister Harold Wilson broke into Baroness Falkender's garage to recover files she had stolen from him. The source cited is a 2006 article by the Independent. This article does support the claim, technically, but similarly makes it completely out of the blue, without offering any kind of context.

Having been unable to find any other reference to the supposed break-in (either on Wikipedia or outside it), I now suspect that it never happened, and that the claim only ended up in the Independent article to begin with as a result of a misunderstanding, or perhaps some sort of joke.

I will let the line on the page stand, for now, since it technically is still mentioned in a reliable source, but have reached out to the Independent for clarification.

Toanoopie (talk) 01:03, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Name

Is it correct to call her Marcia Falkender? Her common name is definitely Marcia Williams. Should we even have the Baroness Falkender, since it was only awarded after she retired from a major role in public life? PatGallacher (talk) 21:25, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 3 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jerium (talk) 23:35, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Marcia Falkender, Baroness Falkender → Marcia Williams – WP:COMMONNAME, already redirects here. PatGallacher (talk) 19:41, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, this is the name by which she was known when she was prominent in British political life. Secondly, I don't think "Falkender" was ever her surname. Thirdly, she was only awarded this title after she retired from a prominent role (and never spoke in the House of Lords) see WP:NCROY. PatGallacher (talk) 19:45, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nominator. Titles are overused with life peers. Killuminator (talk) 20:28, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:COMMONNAME indeed. Current title is unnecessary. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Socialism has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:26, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Women's History has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:26, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:27, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support as a shorter, more recognisable name without unnecessary disambiguation. Ralbegen (talk) 14:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support in line with WP:COMMONNAME. She was almost always referred to as Marcia Williams during her life (and even after her death). Vida0007 (talk) 09:17, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, but rename to Marcia Williams, Baroness Falkender. She was almost always referred to as Marcia Williams during her life (and even after her death). She wasn't. She was very commonly referred to as Lady Falkender for the last 45 years of her life. Today her title is far better known than her surname. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:44, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.