Talk:Main Page/Archive 128

Archive 125

Archive 126

Archive 127

Archive 128

Archive 129

Archive 130

→

Archive 135

Newspaper

I want Wikipedia to have the newspaper

See the preview in Club Penguin Wiki --125.25.9.195 (talk) 11:39, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

We have one, It's called The Wikipedia Signpost. -- [[ axg ⁞⁞ talk ]] 11:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

We do, it's the Signpost. ffm 11:59, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Aaaah!

Nothing about Oded Schramm on the news... funny, he was very well known...

Up and over for a six! (talk) 12:27, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm doubtful that we would have had him, even under a very liberal death criteria but in any case, his unfortunate death was over 2 weeks ago so it's way to late now Nil Einne (talk) 13:15, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Nice Juxtaposition Today, Guys

I like how Hurricane Isabel is reported as having cost the U.S. $3.6 billion, while the AIG conundrum is costing us $85 billion. Congratulations AIG, you are more than twenty-three times more damaging to our nation's economy than a category 5 hurricane! ~ Skyscraper (talk) 12:44, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure this was unintentional, but still brilliant! Company s. natural disaster...you'd expect the category 5 hurricane to be more damaging

Lunakeet 13:58, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Nothing on the Israel situation?

I'm a little surprised nothing about Olmert's announced resignation and Livni's possible ascension to Prime Minister has been reported in the ITN section. From what I'm reading, this could become a big deal...Cyrenaic (talk) 09:17, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

WP:ITN/C plz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.155.186.31 (talk) 13:54, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Confusion in on this day?

1846 – Using mathematical predictions by French mathematician Urbain Le Verrier, German astronomer Johann Gottfried Galle became the first person to observe Neptune (pictured).

Considering that the tidbit is about Johann Gottfried Galle, don't you think that the picture should be of him? Or reword the section to make it more aware that you are talking about Neptune being pictured. 150.176.164.16 (talk) 12:19, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion for 'in the news'

Major scientific discovery today: Mysterious New 'Dark flow' Discovered in Space, Wikipedia article at Dark flow Zazaban (talk) 06:02, 24 September 2008 (UTC).

There's a big, BIG, box at the top that says not to post that here, go here: WP:ITN/C instead. 79.71.66.125 (talk) 06:25, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I went there I couldn't figure out what to do, so I put it here. Zazaban (talk) 06:28, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Read "suggestions" and the sample candidate. Putting it here does no good as only articles suggested on that page are considered. -Elmer Clark (talk) 08:38, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Also, please go to the discussion page for WP:ITN/C and tell them what you found confusing about the instructions. They can't clarify them for the next person if they don't know how they're confusing. -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 18:30, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

A first?

With today's excellent featured picture of the outside of Grand Central at night, does it become the first building on Wikipedia to not only have FPs of both exterior and interior but to have had those pics on the Main Page (did we run an FP on the Main Page back then?)

Certainly a deserving building if so. Daniel Case (talk) 19:00, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Good observation. The only other structure that was on TFP twice was the Golden Gate Bridge as far as I can tell, but that's not really a building. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 19:04, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the interior was POTD on June 10, 2006. howcheng {chat} 19:25, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Washington Mutual has been bought by JP Morgan

Biggest American Bank to fold ever. Seems worthy of in the news. Here is a link [1]. Glad I just graduated college.--UhOhFeeling (talk) 08:56, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Please post suggestions at WP:ITN/C. Suggestions posted here are in the wrong place and will be ignored by the ITN organisers. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 10:16, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

this day in history

one day, Pier Gerlofs Donia should be in there. 193.172.170.26 (talk) 10:03, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

To suggest new items, please see WP:OTD. Spencer^T♦C 11:25, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Good feature articles

I was critical here last month about commercial feature articles, so I thought I should just take a moment to say that somehow, someone has brought about a tremendous improvement. Where last month I'd estimated 11 "commercial" articles, there are maybe 4, less flagrant, this month. Meanwhile, articles like Zhang Heng and at least half a dozen others are most desirable - Wikipedia Main Page articles that are not only well written and comprehensive, but teach things that ought to be schoolroom basics but probably aren't. Wnt (talk) 19:16, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there has actually been a big change. I suspect it's more of a case of observer bias here combined with the fact that over a short space of time (1 month) there is always going to be a variance in the number of 'commercial' (or any other type) of features articles we have unless you go to extremes to avoid it, which we don't (why does a period of 1 month matter such much anyway?). For starters, I don't know where you get the figure of 11 for last month from. Even with a fairly loose definition of commercial Wikipedia:Today's featured article/August 2008 I only count 6. [Bioshock, Holden, PowerBook 100 (given that this is something that is approach 20 years old, as I said, a rather loose definition), Flea, Diary of a Camper and The Penelopiad]. Even if I go to an insanely loose definition of commercial and include Anna May Wong (one of the first Chinese American movie stars and someone who died in 1961), Yao Ming (one of the most popular athletes in China), Madman Muntz (a person who was one of the pioneers in the early days of electronics and died in 1987) I only get 9. You'd have to go to extreme lengths, e.g. calling Dartmouth College and say Ryan White 'commercial' to get 11. So yes, seems to be a clear case of observer bias. And while we did have less this month (Jackie Chan, David Lovering and Biman Bangladesh Airlines and perhaps throwing in Chinua Achebe + Calgary Flames are the only ones you could likely call commercial this month) it's not unexpected as I said. Zhang Heng is a bit of an oddity, sadly our coverage of non-European, non-anglophone anything is piss poor and while I'm sure many of us would like to see more of it, it's not going to happen unless people start working on such articles (hint hint). Of course each month we do have some FAs which many will feel cover rather important stuff. E.g. in the derided month of August you mentioned, we had History of timekeeping devices, Parapsychology, Campaign history of the Roman military, Noble gases, Poliomyelitis, Rongorongo and Planet. And Kaziranga National Park, Donald Bradman, Borobudur, Pygmy Hippopotamus, William Wilberforce and Roy Welensky may have been fairly specific, they do seem relatively important to me and definitely something educational for many readers. Nil Einne (talk) 20:26, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

You know, I really can't wait for October, when we actually *might have* a "commercial" Featured Article on the Main Page. I can hear the whining on this page already :) GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 20:36, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have been more precise. I posted early last month,[2] using July's statistics. I hadn't meant to reopen that issue again, only to congratulate people for providing great feature articles this month. I agree with your figure for August, setting a trend of improvement. Wnt (talk) 20:47, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I think you've just proven my point. Yes we did have an unusually high number of FAs (can't be bothered looking at the precise number) which could be described as commercial in July. But why pick on July? Such peaks would definitely occur in a truly random system and while the TFA is not chosen at random, it's silly to expect Raul to try slavish each month to ensure there aren't 'too many' commercial FAs, it's far better if he takes a more well rounded view. If you look at June, there was Ran (film), Sertraline, Wilco, Jurassic Park, The World Without Us and Age of Empires. Perhaps you could thrown in Bradley Joseph although I'm somewhat doubtful anyway would be greatly influence to buy music connection with him by his FA (actually I'm doubtful for the other examples as well but not quite as much). Meanwhile we had Formation and evolution of the Solar System, Durian and a bunch of other surely important FAs. In other words we had a decent balance as we do in most months and as we do overall. There was no 'trend' to TFA becoming 'commercial' in July nor is there any 'trend' to use completely ignoring commercial stuff from now on. You're simply seeing what you want to see, which isn't uncommon mind you. It's just the way things work. BTW, even in the deried month of July, we had Puerto Ricans in World War II, Genetics, To Kill a Mockingbird (perhaps you included this in 'commercial' FAs but I would say it's an extremely important literate work, particularly in the US), atom and a bunch of other stuff, surely of importance and interest to our readers that couldn't be called 'commercial'. Nil Einne (talk) 17:53, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

P.P.S. I only counted 9 FAs that could be described as commercial in July even with a fairly lose definition. You'd have to throw stuff like T206 Honus Wagner (a rare card who's value is not likely to change at all by appearance on the main page) and FairTax or perhaps TKAM into the mix to get 11. P.P.P.S. You may want to know that by and large, the vast majority of people writing FAs don't check out the main page talk page nor do many of the people involved in selecting TFA (although Raul does seem to) Nil Einne (talk) 18:00, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Today in History (forgotten anniversary)

Hello everyone,

How come the 250th anniversary of Lord Nelson's birth isn't mentioned at all on the English-speeking wikipedia? Amhantar (talk) 06:18, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Look at DYK. --74.13.126.219 (talk) 07:53, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

in the archives, where noöne can see it... so much for one of the greatest British personae of all times... Amhantar (talk) 14:13, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

It wasn't forgotten. Here it is. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 14:33, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

writing new article

The main page should clearly indicate where and how to start a new article. This is one of Wiki's main functions, and it has now been obscured by a lot of less relevant things.77.162.130.139 (talk) 08:58, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps, but you should know that you first must create an account and log in before creating a new article will be possible. Best of luck, Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 15:01, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I would say nowadays were much more interested in editors improving our existing articles then starting new ones. Not that we don't need new articles but we have a lot of articles already that need work. Also, the main page is primarily directed at our readers, not our editors, as they are the majority of our visitors by far. There are a lot of other places where someone wanting to be an edit can go to Nil Einne (talk) 19:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. The Community portal, for example, is arguably the community-directed version of the Main Page. Waltham, The Duke of 20:53, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, right at the top of the page it says " . . . anyone can edit.". There's also a link to WP:TUTORIAL just below that. I think these links are more than adequate. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 19:52, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Search Bar

I have noticed that the search bar has a new feature: when you type a letter/phrase in the search bar, a drop box appears that narrows down your search. (ex: if I type in "Hurricane I" into the search bar, a little box drops down displaying Hurricane Ignacio and Hurricane Ike.) So, I was wondering, is there a MediaWiki page that contains the coding to this new search feature? Several users on the Super Mario Wiki, (of which I am a Sysop), were wondering if the site could get this new feature. Thanks. Stooben 23:38, 29 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.70.194.93 (talk)

This should be what you're looking for. Cheers, Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP! :)} 23:46, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! =) 75.70.194.93 (talk) 00:33, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Getting Started

Wow, I have another question...

Okay, I've downloaded MediaWiki and all software necessary to get a MediaWiki wiki started. I have two problems: 1) How do I actually create the site on this link? And 2) What is a good free domain to host the site? 75.70.194.93 (talk) 23:37, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with Main Page. Try http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Help Not here, please. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 01:16, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Biggest drop in stock market history?

Despite the popular press's fascination (or is it something else) with the numerical value of the US stock market drop, the number of points of the drop is meaningless for purposes of comparison with other drops. The only meaningful comparison is the percentage change. A seven percent drop is a big one, and worth plenty of notice, but to call it the biggest in history is a gross misstatement: it is the 18th biggest drop, and not even a third of the biggest percentage drop. To suggest it is the biggest causes an unwarranted sense of panic -- but the erroneous reports calling it the biggest might in themselves, by confusing the casual investor and consumer during a frankly very confusing time, bring about a herd mentality that might give us reason to truly panic.

Please correct the error. --Itsgeneb (talk) 17:08, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

What error? The blurb says the Dow Jones suffered the largest one-day point drop in its history, which is true. Whether or not people misinterpret the significance of this fact and panic is irrelevant to our concerns. Nufy8 (talk) 17:32, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. The fact that people constantly misinterpret such reports is not irrelevant. It is thus an error to emphasize that it is the biggest drop in history. It borders on purposefully misleading the reader. The fact that it is the biggest drop in points is of no value. The DJIA is a statistical measure for which the absolute number of points is completely meaningless. Why would Wikipedia emphasize a meaningless number in a lead blurb? My suggestion is to say it is a 7 point drop, the 18th largest drop in Dow history, and the biggest since September 2001.--Itsgeneb (talk) 17:41, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Claiming that the biggest point drop is meaningless seems like a value judgment to me. If we have to decide which news stories and facts from those stories are most important, then we should refer to what reliable news sources are saying instead of personal misgivings. Nufy8 (talk) 18:45, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

It's a value judgment in that it is valuable to be meaningful. Itsgeneb is correct; the number of points of any stock market drop is far, far less meaningful than the percentage drop. Tempshill (talk) 20:49, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Again, qualifying it as meaningless is a point of view. Both the percentage and the point drop are mentioned, and because the latter set a record that is being widely reported on, that record is mentioned; neither is presented as more meaningful. Nufy8 (talk) 23:18, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

You repeatedly dismiss the statement as a mere point of view. You are incorrect; it is not a point of view, it is a fact. It is mathematically factual that a 777 point decline in the Dow to 10,365 (Monday's decline) is not directly comparable to a 508 point decline to 1,738 (October 19, 1987), but the statement that it is the largest point-value decline is a direct comparison, which is invalid. Those are facts. Only someone who does not understand facts, or has an axe to grind, would claim otherwise. --Itsgeneb (talk) 01:21, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Even if it's not the biggest percentage drop, the fact that it's the biggest point drop is indeed significant and newsworthy because of the nature of the financial markets. Remember that even the false rumor of a bank's failing can cause a run that causes the bank to fail. In the same way, a record point drop affects the market psychologically, and is therefore quite relevant. Lovelac7 01:39, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, I understand basic facts and don't have any particular axe to grind, so with that condescension aside, I'd like to point out that the "meaning" of the record point drop is not merely restricted to a statistical comparison; Lovelac7 pointed out one possible consequence that could give the drop meaning, and I'm sure there are more. Point is, this is a newsworthy fact with a meaning that is quite subjective, unless you're looking at it from nothing more than a statistically comparitive angle. The issue is much more complex than that, though, so there's no reason to ignore a prominent news topic. Nufy8 (talk) 02:25, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

To summarize: It is significant because people misinterpret it to be significant. That's an interesting piece of reasoning. /Coffeeshivers (talk) 15:51, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Forgive me, I have not been able to explain my point. The number of points of the drop is much less relevant than the percentage decline, and it isn't comparable to other point drops when the market was at different levels, thus saying it is the biggest drop in points is meaningless, despite the fact that the popular press focuses on that aspect. Now, having said that, the blurb has been edited (it is now stated this way: The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act is rejected by the U.S. House of Representatives, and the Dow Jones stock market index records a one-day point drop of 777.68 points, or seven percent.) I can't figure out how to compare it to what it said before (sorry, can't make sense of the History section, maybe you can point me to how to do that), but it mentioned that it was a record drop in terms of points -- and that was my main objection. Ideally it would say the Dow dropped 7% (though it recovered 4% the next day) or 778 points -- the most illuminating fact is the percentage. As to Lovelac7's comment, she is making my point -- that people incorrectly respond to the point drop and it creates panic where it may not be justified. My objective was to avoid Wikipedia being yet another source of this misleading information. (Coffeeshivers, well put, thank you). Respectfully, --Itsgeneb (talk) 15:56, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

As ridiculous as it may sound, Coffeeshivers, it is a reality of the market, even if Wikipedia doesn't report on it (and if it does, whether or not it exacerbates the issue seems rather moot), but I digress; this debate is going in circles now, so I won't belabor the point any further. Anyway, it's not that big of a deal for me to revert the admin who changed the blurb and potentially start a wheel war. Also, Itsgeneb, ITN's edit history can be found here. Nufy8 (talk) 16:52, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

As far as I can see, Nufy's position is that Wikipedia is not written for total morons who can't distinguish between a percentage change and an absolute change. This seems perfectly reasonable. If anyone like that actually exists, it's probably pointless to direct them to an article on finance anyway.

If I am mistaken then I suggest changing the blurb to "Funny numbers go down. Go down lots. Ug maybe not able put deposit on cave no more." --86.167.18.59 (talk) 22:34, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Something vandalism

I thought the Main Page protected all the pages it links to. Why did I click onto a vandal edit? It's the Featured Article of the Day. MMetro (talk) 01:17, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

The Main Page's transclusions are all protected, not links. Wikipedia:Main Page featured article protection may interest you. Spencer^T♦C 01:27, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Tulip Mania

What absolute genius to have this as today's featured article as the world financial markets sputter and fail after the collapse of the housing bubble. Great stuff, any idea when this was scheduled? Lisiate (talk) 00:32, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, you have to remember that we're an encyclopedia and not a news service. Front-page articles generally tend to have nothing to do with the news (except, obviously, the news section). Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP! :)} 00:43, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

There is an interesting similarity in the subject of both matters though (tulip prices violently crashing and the such)... Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP! :)} 00:48, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes I'm aware that the featured article is selected some time before it shows up on the main page. I'm just curious as to when Raul (if Raul still does this) put tulip mania down for today. Lisiate (talk) 01:29, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, Raul still does it. I'm not sure when Tulip Mania was chosen, though looking at the featured articles for October it seems he's doing it on very short notice... Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP! :)} 01:57, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Raul was late in scheduling it today, so another user (the first time in Wikipedia's history I believe) scheduled it for him. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 01:59, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I was *not* late in scheduling it. I sat down to schedule it two hours before it was supposed to appear on the main page. My close timing made certain people (Ryan included) nervous, so they jumped the gun. In five years, I have never missed a date.

Also, it's not the first time that someone other than me has picked an article, but it is rare and you have to go back to the early days of FA to find the last time it happened. Raul654 (talk) 18:08, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Answer: It was picked on the 29th by User:Ryan Postlethwaite (see here). Check out his talk page too. Brilliant work IMO. -Oreo Priest ^talk 02:05, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Cheers Oreo, so it's not such a surprising coincidence after all. (Although now you've got me worried about Raul being missing...) Lisiate (talk) 02:12, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Not to worry, he later showed up. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 02:40, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

DYK not showing up?

I just updated DYK to the one with the Sgt. York but it hasn't shown up yet. Is this problem local to me or global? Daniel Case (talk) 02:27, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I can see the Sgt. York hook. It must be your browser's cache. Dr.K. (talk) 02:33, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

It's updated now. (Although I had checked it out in IE and didn't see a change there, either. Daniel Case (talk) 02:39, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

If you change something and it doesn't show up, you need to purge the main page using this link [3] Modest Genius ^talk 01:33, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Khatchkar DYK

Not sure this is the right place for it, but I can't make heads or tails of this DYK:

• "that the Holgate School in Nottinghamshire, England had a Khatchkar (pictured) installed in thanks by the Armenian Government for Lord Byron School in Gyumri?"

Has it been installed in more than one thank? Has it been installed thanks to the Armenian government? Has it been installed by the Armenian government itself? And what does the school in Gyumri have to do with it? Aecis·(away) ^talk 10:10, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

According to the article, the Armenian government gave the Khatchkar to Holgate School as a gesture of thanks for the UK-funded construction of Lord Byron School in Gyumri after the 1988 Spitak earthquake. This hook is way too short to provide adequate context. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 11:02, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I would have to say I understood it even if it took me two reads of the hook. Perhaps UK-funded could be added before Lord Bryon School if people think that will help Nil Einne (talk) 11:35, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:40, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Missing commas

Hello there.

I often see this (example from 29 Sept):

A bomb blast in Delhi, India kills 3 and injures 23.

A car bombing in Damascus, Syria kills 17 and injures 14.

Do you see the missing commas -- after "India" and "Syria", respectively.

Regards,

LarRan (talk) 07:50, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

If they are missing, no one can see them. Pls report this at WP:ERRORS above. --74.13.126.219 (talk) 07:55, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

They're not missing, though. India and Syria aren't parenthetical themselves, they're just part of the larger "Delhi, India" and "Damascus, Syria" fragments. Gramatically, commas would be incorrect at those points. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 22:23, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if the commas are grammatically required or not, but any decent style manual usually requires them, as for that matter the Wikipedia's own. 86.68.248.76 (talk) 16:53, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Erm, no. Writing "A car bombing in Damascus, Syria, kills 17 and injures 14" would be the same as "A car bombing in Damascus, kills 17 and injures 14." It is clearer if you imagine parentheses used instead of a comma—you wouldn't write "A car bombing in Damascus (Syria), kills 17 and injures 14", would you? :) See for instance [4]. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 17:13, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Your example with parenthesis is good, but you made the mistake of putting both a comma and a parenthesis after "Syria". Try: "A car bombing in Damascus (Syria) kills 17 and injures 14" -- the parentheses replace the commas; so the sentence reads the same with or without the parenthetical "(Syria)". The commas in constructions of that kind act like parentheses, and you wouldn't open a parenthesis without subsequently closing it, would you? Comma (punctuation) has something to say on the matter. Aille (talk) 19:55, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

How about the other item, "Three bombs detonate in Maharashtra and Gujarat, India killing 8 and injuring 80"? Try the stripped-down form: "Three bombs detonate in India killing 8 and injuring 80." Reads wrong to me; surely that one needs a comma before the gerund modifiers, regardless of whether or not you buy into the "city, country," doctrine. Aille (talk) 22:04, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Correct: "A bomb blast in Delhi, India kills 3 and injures 23."

Correct: "Three bombs detonate in Maharashtra and Gujarat, India, killing 8 and injuring 80". If you disagree, you really shouldn't be editing Wikipedia. --125.238.145.242 (talk) 06:30, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

No argument with the second example, but in the first, the comma after "India" is required by, for example, the Chicago Manual of Style ("Mary traveled to Seattle, Washington, before going on to California.”) the AP Stylebook ("Acme Pens was founded in Padua, Italy, in 2004."), and US Govt Printing office ("Washington, DC, schools"). Most authorities see that "India" as a parenthetical requiring commas before and after. Aille (talk) 16:12, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

The use of two commas is correct. "India" is acting as a nonessential clause. If this were part of an article in a Delhi newspaper, or likely any Indian newspaper, there would be no need to further identify the country as India - it would be nonessential to the meaning of the sentence. However, when it is included, as it should be on this page, it must be set off by commas on both sides - while not essential to the meaning of the sentence, it is acting as an inserted clarifier. As others have argued above, the commas fulfill the same punctuation need as parenthesis would. Parenthesis, however, are generally reserved for insertion into proper nouns. For example, if I was discussing the Delhi Transport Corporation out of the context of India, I may write it Delhi (India) Transport Corporation to provide that information to the reader. I should also add that the L.A. Times article linked above only lacks the comma in the webpage header, which would not have been written by an editor, but rather a online manager. The correct form is used in the second paragraph of the CNN article at [5], albeit with a city and state instead of a city and country. The principle is the same. Newsboy85 (talk) 21:56, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Something image

Shouldn't it be a picture of the single cover itself, rather pictures of the individual band members? I don't know what the protocol is for this kind of thing, so I'm just askin'. 24.3.14.157 (talk) 15:10, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Fair use images aren't allowed on the Main Page. ffm 15:28, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

bailout plan

it was passed plz update the news http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/10/01/us-bailout.html?ref=rss--24.109.210.126 (talk) 02:14, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

WP:ITN/C. No one hears your screams. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 14:20, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Ya, where is the passing of the bailout plan in the news??? --64.230.14.7 (talk) 13:27, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

It has only half passed: it passed the Senate, the House is voting today. 129.170.31.143 (talk) 15:33, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Guys. If you want to suggest candidates for the In the News section, go to WP:ITN/C. If you post here, no one will ever act on your suggestions. J.delanoy^gabs_adds 15:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

How much

how much did Guinness pay for the ad on wiki, and can I pay for the same? 81.76.3.166 (talk) 18:56, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello there. Because Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia, and a registered charity, we are not funded by advertising. You would not have seen this product advertised, and we would not accept payments for advertising. Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 19:04, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I suspect that 81.76 is referring to the appearance of noitulovE as Today's Featured Article. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 22:08, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

This has got to be the 10th time I've seen someone with this same complaint. The fact of the matter is that Wikipedia's editors are primarily young white males, and what do young white males enjoy more than pop culture? 98.207.43.214 (talk) 23:12, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I wonder how much Tyrone Wheatley payed us to put him on the front page or The Beatles or the Anglo-Saxon chronicle. For that matter, we must be getting huge amounts of money from the United States Congress. They've been on the front page all week. 66.231.141.34 (talk) 04:49, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, and look at how many blurbs and such there are for the Wikimedia Foundation... they must be spending a fortune on ads here. Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 05:08, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Though, 98.207.43.214 does have a point about young white males. Just because WP covers all topics, does not mean its editors have wide-ranging interests. Some topics receive more attention than others. 118.90.18.154 (talk) 06:47, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Systemic bias for more on that. -Elmer Clark (talk) 08:26, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, like black people aren't hooked on pop culture either. 210.50.99.56 (talk) 16:36, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Hey, hey, we aren't trying to spark an uncivil conflict here...no need to press this discussion further, I think the necessary points have already been made. IceUnshattered ^{[ t ]} 22:32, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Today's Featured Media (5th October)

I'd just like to say that I found the featured video today very moving. Thank you. TleilaxuMaster (talk) 12:35, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I thought of it as a snuff movie; those are actual people being killed. EamonnPKeane (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I didn't think anything of it since it just gets stuck in buffer mode. Why put a video on the front page of Wikipedia which we already know has terrible server capacity? Stick to photos. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.148.15.99 (talk) 16:04, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I also struggled to see it, and didn't see the whole thing until I downloaded it and installed a plugin for WMP, which still crashed the player after the video had finished. I really don't think there's anything wrong with sticking to more common formats, like MP3 and AVI, but I doubt that's going to change. J Milburn (talk) 16:15, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, that is why I found it so interesting Eamonn. The distanced and almost casual attitude, looking through a crosshair at individuals, the ease of which they are dispensed with, etc. Comparisons could be drawn between it and looking at bacterium in a Petri dish. The way individuals and society gives lip-service to the abhorring of murder while society itself commits these crimes through individuals...I could go on. I didnt have any problems streaming here. (England.) TleilaxuMaster (talk) 16:18, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I'd love to comment on the video, but it never manages to finish loading and the download abruptly cancels before the halfway mark for me. JPG-GR (talk) 17:27, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Myn expernce is that your best bet is to instal VLC media player.Geni 18:09, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

AVI, WMV and MP3 are proprietary, copyrighted formats. Using them goes against Wikipedia's licensing statement (GFDL and so on), see here and here. You can install the K-Lite Mega Codec Pack (files playable in any other media player or included Media Player Classic) or VLC (article, contains mainly the same codecs as KLMCP, but they're built in so only VLC can use them) and the files will play fine in your browser and once downloaded to a folder. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 21:14, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

So there are no freeware media players that play them? Are you saying that someone using a freeware operating system would be unable to use them? J Milburn (talk) 21:20, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

freeware? Not relivant. Wikipedia's standards are FOSS. There are players built on FOSS systems but they have legal issues.Geni 23:34, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

In any case, note that freeware or not, in some countries you need a patent license to use patented codecs. Normally the person who develops the codec seeks a licence on behalf of the user but this may not be the case with freeware codecs. While codec patent holder have never (to my knowledge) persued home end users for patent claims, it doesn't mean it's okay to expect people to have to infringe patents to play a file Nil Einne (talk) 13:23, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

A snuff movie is when you kill someone purely to film them dying, so this isn't a snuff movie because the reason for their deaths wasn't related to the film. If it was merely a snuff movie it would have been a lot less sick and disturbing. --86.167.18.59 (talk) 00:31, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

can you guys put where it is located —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.237.227.21 (talk) 22:26, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

What are you referring to? The location where the video is shot? Please clarify. Also, it you would sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~), that would be appreciated. IceUnshattered ^{[ t ]} 22:39, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

A featured pic hat trick

I see we have one of the pictures from crepuscular rays on the Main Page today. I'm not sure we had them on the Main Page at the time but both this crep-ray pic and this one have been on Picture of the Day as well, making it possibly (and understandably, given how tempting they are as a subject when you see them and have a camera in hand) the only subject to be represented by three Pictures of the Day. Good work! Daniel Case (talk) 01:56, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah! --74.13.131.22 (talk) 01:56, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

NRL grand final

How is the it of the NRL grand final worthy of a position in the 'In the news' section? Shouldn't this be about events of global, or at least national significance? The NRL grand final is neither. I call for it to be removed. Suicup (talk) 00:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

It's not from the U.S. so it made it. WTF. –Howard the Duck 02:46, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

That "news" is completely irrelevant to most of the world (ie non NRL watching Australians). It's neatly sandwiched between topics of greater notability, say the Nobel prize (HIV) and the arguably the world's biggest economic crisis. The contrast in notability is very clear. Whilst it has an article, it is not main page material. 129.78.149.91 (talk) 06:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I've removed it. Fram (talk) 06:46, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I think that was a mistake. We routinely list the championship games of major sporting finals, very few of which are of global importance. Just because it was Australia rather than North America or Western Europe hardly means it is less notable. Resolute 01:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Lemme make it clear that ITN only calls for "international importance or interest," not global importance/significance. Otherwise there'll be a dearth of items eligible for ITN. –Howard the Duck 05:16, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Any further discussion should take place either at WP:ITN/C or WT:ITN Nil Einne (talk) 19:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Bravo 2 wikipedia for today's front page (12 Oct)

(Not sure where to put this so apologies if in the wrong place but...) well done to Wikipedia for chosing a geography issue and especially one about an important UK urban area. Not sure if these are chosen randomly but as someone who is fascinated by articles like this may I simply offer some cheers for whoever/however it was chosen for the front page feature.  :-) Signed mapmark 12 Oct 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mapmark (talk • contribs) 11:26, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah! --74.13.131.22 (talk) 11:26, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

In the news

It says "The British Government announces details of a financial rescue package aimed at stabilizing and restoring confidence in the British banking sector." Stabilising is spelled in American English as opposed to the British English, if its about the British government, shouldn't we use British English and use a "S" not a "Z". This only makes sense. There are non-American users on wikipedia, therefore we should reflect everyone. Ijanderson (talk) 11:24, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Please post this at WP:ERRORS since response will be a lot faster there. Thanks. –Howard the Duck 12:56, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

In any case, "stablize" is the preferred British English spelling as far as Oxford Dictionaries are concerned. - see [6], and have a read of Ize#Greek_spellings. Bazza (talk) 13:17, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, it's 'stabilize'. Secondly, Oxford spelling is not standard British English spelling. Algebraist 17:17, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for correcting my misconception that the OED defines British English. The article you (Algebraist) linked was very informative. However, the line "Outside Britain, Oxford spelling is the de facto spelling standard used in style guides of international organizations that belong to the UN System, [...]" was interesting because it seems to offer a counterpoint to Ijanderson977's statement. There are non-British users on Wikipedia, therefore we (perhaps) should use "ize" in most cases to reflect everyone as many people as possible.

However, it does make sense (to me, at least) to use British spellings when dealing with British subjects, U.S. spelling when dealing with U.S. subjects, and OED spelling when dealing with the non-British, non-American world. 168.9.120.8 (talk) 19:28, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Copied to errors above. Random89 02:48, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

You appear to ahve misunderstood the article. OED spelling is used by many international organisations. But not all other countries use OED spelling, e.g. Australia, New Zealand Nil Einne (talk) 07:49, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Featured sounds on the main page

I believe it's time to move forwards with adding featured sounds to the main page. There are 98 featured sound files, representing 65 distinct compositions (symphonies and such can contain multiple files because of the various movements) Our statistics are reasonably good, with about a dozen per month in the last three months, and October looking good for a strong increase on that.

And, of course, the greater visibility can reasonably be presumed to attract more people to Featured sounds, increasing these numbers.

This will need some set-up time, of course, so I'd suggest that we start by putting in featured sounds in place of the weekend featured pictures in, say, November or December (I have discussed such a move with Howcheng) and plan on starting a daily run of featured sounds in the new year. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 14:40, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

What about "featured media" - which would basically be featured sound or video, rather than a picture? Garden. 16:26, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Garden. That sounds a great idea. J Milburn (talk) 16:56, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the above editors—given the relative scarcity of featured sounds (which is not a comment on the quality of the selections, of course) and the scarcity of space on the Main Page, folding featured sounds into the current "featured image" selection and calling it "featured media" is probably the way to go. If this is done, the first sound selection needs to be chosen very carefully as a useful introduction to the concept, so I'd advise not going forward until you have a specific selection in mind for it. Of course, that's true even if it's not folded into the featured images, too. — Gavia immer (talk) 17:07, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

This seems rather appropriate to kick it off with - an extremely good quality recording of a song everyone already knows. Raul654 (talk) 17:22, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe, though, that Featured Pictures is already quite a bit behind. I wouldnt mind blending sounds with video, to take some of the load off FPs, but to add sounds permanently to FPs is just going to push things further and further behind. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 17:58, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I'll support a rename of "Featured Picture" to "Featured Media" and the inclusion of sounds, but only if one sound is chosen per composition (such as the first movement of la primavera) for now. ffm 23:13, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking that, as sounds don't take a lot of space, we could probably fit three or four in without too much trouble. That's enough for all but one multi-part sound, and, frankly, we could just take some samples from that one without much problem. In any case, the multi-part sounds are a distinct minority. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 09:13, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok, that's a great idea. ffm 22:38, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

One problem with swapping a Featured Picture out with a Featured Sound is that the FPs currently have about a six-month backlog before appearing on the Main Page. Adding Sounds only increases that backlog. Additionally, there's a lot of technical template work to incorporate sounds, which may or may not be feasibly done. howcheng {chat} 17:03, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

A six-month backlog is a good problem to have, no? Has any thought been given to having two Featured Pictures each day? I wonder if the current stockpile would accommodate that. Then maybe, some days the second Featured Picture space could go to a Featured Sound, and we'd take out two birds with one stone.--Pharos (talk) 20:01, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

A bust of Ludwig van Beethoven taken from his death mask.

Piano Sonata No. 28 in A Major, Op. 101: manuscript sketch for movement IV.

I like the idea, if it could be implemented, and suggest it begin by pairing this featured sound with either of these featured pictures. (Note that Wikipedia has already done this once on 9/11/2008 when it ran George W. Bush's 9/11/2001 speech (a featured sound) in tandem with a featured picture of the World Trade Center wreckage). Howcheng, you are welcome to push back my featured pictures in the queue in order to mix in featured sounds. That would reduce about 1/3 of the backlog? Durova^Charge! 17:15, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I think sound-picture paring would work nicely, as right now a bit of space is wasted on the main page for one item. ffm 22:38, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Of course, we wouldn't always have such a neat pairing available. =) But yes, whenever possible. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 22:52, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

As I see it, there's a few ways to do this:

1. 1 Featured media, either FP or FS - this is probably impractical. Too big of an FP queue.
2. Two featured media every day: I'm a little uncomfortable with this, because it wouldn't really advertise the featured sound project very effectively (since the words "featured sound" would not appear, and it gives no firm schedule for featured sounds.
3. Featured picture + second FP Tuesday-Thursday-Saturday-Sunday / FS Monday Wednesday Friday - I kind of like this idea better, simply because, with a simple bit of extra code, featured sounds could be named in the title and links on the designated days. Three Featured sounds a week seems quite possible.
4. 1 or 2 Featured pictures + Featured sound every day: Perhaps in the future!

I would suggest that, whatever we do, that the new inclusion of featured sounds is worth a Wikimedia foundation press release, explicitly encouraging people to submit their sounds. Wikipedia can do sounds very well, which print encyclopedias can't, but we do need to make it known that Wikipedia welcomes and encourages such submissions, or we won't get 'em. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 23:54, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

• Support this excellent idea by Shoemaker's Holiday (talk · contribs). Cirt (talk) 11:18, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.196.241.102 (talk) 06:48, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

The four-month FP promotion rate is around 10.4/week, slightly less than as proposed above. I don't know how things are going over at FS, but what concerns me is that sometimes we have a lull where the rate drops below 7/week for a few consecutive weeks. Maybe a 10/4 partition?

And how would the main page look like when we have a panorama, especially at lower resolutions (800 x 600 in particular)? If I did POTD, I would run only one item those days. This would scuttle more than a few designs in the 2008 main page redesign proposal. MER-C 12:36, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Featured sounds could probably manage 4/week. Also, figure that some FPs (e.g. that collection of fractals) and multi-part FSes might reasonably take both partitions, and we should be fine, particularly if we set up the code to allow things like panoramas to take up both slots. We'll need to do the extra coding, of course, but if we have the will to move forwards, I don't think that's a huge problem. I'll start setting up a test system, based on the current featured pictures code, using default values to make it backwards compatible. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 14:34, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

That's a very optimistic number on Shoemaker's part. I suppose this deserves background: for nearly three years featured sounds languished with an average of fewer than one promotion every two months. A small core of people brought the process to life this summer and fall, but it really needs broader exposure to become sustainable. I would gladly sacrifice any and all of my FP work if that's what it takes to get a stable featured sound process. That would be in the best interests of the encyclopedia. Durova^Charge! 22:37, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

We've managed about 3/week for three months running. Presuming a bit more participation, 4 should be possible, particularly given the 60-odd sound backlog that will help fill in the gaps while we build things up. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 22:57, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't suppose there's any hope for the idea that WP shouldn't try to cram something into every last square inch of its mainpage? The Mozart example above reminds me of this.

While you may have a point about not trying to cram in too much (media overload), it's worth remembering that Google is a search engine and their main page is intended to be a way to access that search engine. Yahoo clearly consider their main page as a portal and similarly our main page is primarily intended to promote our content not to function as a search engine or be a way for people to access our articles (that is part of the purpose but not the primary purpose). You may want to go to Wikipedia:2008 main page redesign proposal where generally too much whitespace is frowned upon and voice your views Nil Einne (talk) 08:07, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Um, where does anyone mention Mozart? Durova^Charge! 22:31, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I meant Beethoven, of course. APL (talk) 01:17, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Actually we've been working on Mozart too... ;) Durova^Charge! 05:15, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

We're not cramming things into every square inch on the MP - we're just adding something else next to the FP, that won't take up any more space than a panorama. This would be a welcome addition to the project. Dendodge|Talk^Contribs 08:14, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

MISSING SELECTED ANNIVERSARY

TODAY IS INTERNATIONAL CAPS-LOCK DAY, THE DAY WHEN WE SHOW OUR APPRECIATION FOR THE LEAST APPRECIATED KEY ON YOUR KEYBOARD. (EXCEPT POSSIBLY SCROLL LOCK). SELECTED ANNIVERSARIES NEEDS TO BE UPDATED ACCORDINGLY. CEILING CAT (TALK) 19:13, 22 OCTOBER 2008 (UTC)

PROPOSE IT FOR NEXT YEAR. ffm 20:58, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

CAPS LOCK RULES! THIS SHOULD DEFINITELY BE A SELECTED ANNIVERSARY NEXT YEAR! DENDODGETALK^CONTRIBS 21:01, 22 OCTOBER 2008 (UTC)

i thought there were real world problems, like this —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.7.206.134 (talk) 22:03, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

IF YOU CAN CREATE AN ANNIVERSARY FOR IT, WE CAN MAYBE ADD IT NEXT YEAR. AS IT IS, THERE'S A 'WORLD CAPS LOCK DAY', BUT NO 'WORLD FOOD PRICES DAY'. DENDODGETALK^CONTRIBS 22:07, 22 OCTOBER 2008 (UTC)

But srsly, not funny. ffm 22:28, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

1914: Nation's first income tax, on this day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.7.206.134 (talk) 22:09, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

WHAT? CAPSLOCK DAY FOR THE WIN! CWii_{(Talk|Contribs)} 22:25, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

WHICH DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR ANYONE OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES. ffm 22:28, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I'M FROM CANADA AND I GET IT. ALSO, IT SOUNDS LIKE EVERYONES YELLING IN MY MIND WHEN I SEE CAPS LOCKS. THIS IS QUITE HUMOROUS.--Getsgoals11 (talk) 22:39, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I ALWAYS THINK THE SAME THING. I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO DID THAT. IT'S NICE TO KNOW THAT MY IDIOSYNCRASIES ARE NOT EXCLUSIVE TO ME. J.delanoy^gabs_adds 22:52, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

SAME HEAR, BUT WHATEVER. I'M HAVING FUN, SINCE ON ANY OTHER DAY THIS WOULD BE A SIGN OF MY INNER N00B. ffm 23:14, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

HERE'S AN ALTERNATIVE IDEA -- RATHER THAN CELEBRATING CAPS-LOCK DAY EXPLICITELY, WE COULD DO IT IMPLICITELY. THAT IS TO SAY, WE CELEBRATE IT EVERY DAY - WE MAKE ALL TEXT ON THE MAIN PAGE PERMANENTLY IN CAPS. THAT WAY, NOT ONLY WOULD WE BE THE ENCYCLOPEDIA THAT ANYONE CAN EDIT, BUT WE COULD ALSO BE THE ENCYCLOPEDIA THAT TELLS YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO KNOW REALLY LOUDLY! BECAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS THAT THE LOUDER YOU ARE, THE RIGHTER YOU ARE. JUST A THOUGHT :) CEILING CAT (TALK) 23:19, 22 OCTOBER 2008 (UTC)

WHO THE HELL USES CAPS LOCK ANYMORE? SHIFT IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO. --Kaizer13 (talk) 23:25, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

• SUPPORT EXCELLENT IDEA. BY WHY STOP THERE? I SAY, SCREW COPYRIGHTS AND UPLOAD THE RICKROLL VIDEO AND MAKE EVERY LINK ON THE MAIN PAGE POINT TO IT. IMAGINE THE AWESOMENESS HERE IF WE DID THAT! J.delanoy^gabs_adds 23:25, 22 OCTOBER 2008 (UTC)
  • SECONDED. AND THEN WE GET CAPS-LOCK FEATURED AND PUT IT IN THE TFA. CAPS LOCK FTW! –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 23:31, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

/ME DESPERATELY WANTS TO RUN THAT PAGE THROUGH MICROSOFT WORD TO MAKE IT ALL CAPS AND THEN POST IT AND FULL-PROTECT THE PAGE :P J.delanoy^gabs_adds 23:32, 22 OCTOBER 2008 (UTC)

THAT'S AN EPIC VIOLATION OF WP:BEANS. :-) –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 23:36, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I KNOW, GREAT, ISN'T IT? ;-) J.delanoy^gabs_adds 23:40, 22 OCTOBER 2008 (UTC)

THEN STICK IT IN YOUR USERSPACE. 98.164.197.169 (talk) 01:21, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

hi! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.226.195.42 (talk • contribs)

Main Page redesign proposal

Hi Main Pagers! You'll be aware of the Main Page redesign proposal currently under discussion; it would be fantastic if you could take a moment to review and comment on both my personal proposal, and the others too. We really need your opinion and advice to keep the project moving. All the best -- Pretzels^Talk! 15:54, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Please see WP:ABDFI --58.108.70.161 (talk) 04:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Whoa! That was meant to be a joke, I didn't realize there was an actual policy named that. --220.236.59.243 (talk) 14:09, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

It's actually an essay ("just an opinion"), although one that enjoys wide recognition and support. Waltham, The Duke of 22:48, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

there is also [[wikipedia:If it ain't (

Another ad on the Main Page????

catbal-sponsored tired meme

So we are now advertising Odwalla on the Main Page? At least it isn't another video game. What ever happened to putting more animals up there? CuteLittleDoggieLet's play! 00:00, 19 October 2008 (UTC) Hi. WP:TFA/R is that way. :) J.delanoygabsadds 00:19, 19 October 2008 (UTC) Daily Kitten is watching Another clear indication that the main page needs a daily kitten feature; nay, that the public demands it. Ceiling Cat (talk) 00:37, 19 October 2008 (UTC) PS - MAOR KATZ! Ceiling Cat (talk) 00:38, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Please, let's not mock users like this. --Cam (talk) 17:03, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I refer you to the policy WP:SCREW#CATS. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 20:17, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

OK, this place is really getting too opaque :-/ --Cam (talk) 04:15, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Missing images

_{Moved to WP:VPT. ffm 23:15, 21 October 2008 (UTC)}

Main Page article

If we wanted to do an "Main Page" article, how we could do it? something like "Main Page (page)"? "Main page (article)"???? What about changing this to "Wikipedia:Main" to solve problems...--190.79.154.129 (talk) 02:08, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Why would we want an article on the main page? :), Matty (talk) 02:10, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

There was a discussion regarding the location of the Main Page, with a proposal to move it to the Portal: space or the Wikipedia: space. There was no consensus for any change, but some discussion is still ongoing. Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 07:50, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Correction: There have been many of proposals of this kind. Every... I dunno, two months, we get someone on here with the 'OH NOES MAIN PAGE IS IN WRONG NAMESPACE' line. Isn't it in the Main Page FAQ, which is linked prominently in the box at the top of this page? —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 11:40, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

If I ever become famous, I'm going to release a book/film/song/album/e.t.c. called Main Page, just to see what happens. Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 14:08, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

There would be a redirect to Main Page (book)/Main Page (film)/Main Page (song) . . . You get my point. 79.71.67.139 (talk) 14:17, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Would a link to Main Page (book) be displayed at Main Page?

I wonder what will happen if Ellen Page names her daughter "Main" and she insists on using her surname (if that's even possible, LOL) –Howard the Duck 14:23, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Given that her surname is Philpotts-Page I would say it isn't an issue... In any case it seems it could easily be a long wait until it's a possibility. However there are a bunch of people named Page. In any case, it's questionale if it really matters if the person is not notable (do we bother to redirect Jennifer, Rory or whatever Gates)? Although I do still support renaming the main page Nil Einne (talk) 15:48, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

If we ever did move Main Page to the Portal or Wikipedia namespace, I am 99.5% sure we would still redirect Main Page to Wikipedia:Main Page or whatever. J.delanoy^gabs_adds 05:24, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

In the short term sure. But in 3-5 years, I think it would be perfectly resonable to consider whether we should keep the redirect as is, or make it into a disambig page or whatever Nil Einne (talk) 09:44, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

The usual "what-if" is usually attributed to Jimmy Page having a daughter named Main. hbdragon88 (talk) 21:30, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I think a son named "Mainard" would be more plausible. Waltham, The Duke of 08:33, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

get a new d...

design its boring or give an option were people can decide —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.97.239.171 (talk) 08:53, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

If you open an account, you can choose your own skin in the "My Preferences" tab. If you're referring to the Main Page only, why not set one of the Main Page alternatives as your bookmark? GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 09:27, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

why not place link to these alternatives on the main page itself? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.7.206.134 (talk) 18:39, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Because, to be honest, not that many people have a problem with the design. And those that do are generally acquainted enough with the site to find it themselves. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 19:34, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

to be honest, what you just said makes no sense to me. i am familiar with the site a lot, but didn't know about those links. also, i don't like current design. past was better. as for assumption of 'many people', i assume it is not based on any survey/statistics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.7.206.134 (talk) 22:00, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

True, but you asked, and now you do know. As for statistics, the Main Page receives just short of 2 billion (2,000,000,000) hits a month. People are in general not shy about complaining anonymously on the World Wide Web, yet relatively few choose to come here to do so. If you really feel strongly that the Main Page should contain a link to the alternative pages, why not bring it up at the 2008 main page redesign proposal? I'm not sure it'll get a lot of support, but that would be the appropriate forum for it. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 22:32, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Although he should be applauded for being the first IP user to post a topic on this page actually directly relevant to the main page in a long time. Also I make that figure 200 million, not 2 billion... 199 871 133. One hundred and ninety-nine million eight hundred and seventy-one thousand one hundred and thirty three. Two billion would be great, we'd get as many hits as the population of the planet in 3.5 months. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 10:45, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

You'd think our most recent month would be the busiest as we're growing - but we actually got 481 086 753 hits in June - more that twice as much! 20.3M hits in one day. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 10:52, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

If you mean in terms of traffic, Wikipedia isn't growing. It fluctuates, but we've been basically flat for more than a year. Dragons flight (talk) 13:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Panic of 1907 and recession of the 2000s

This front page article must surely be more than a coincidence with the recent economic problems. 147.197.215.16 (talk) 13:53, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Occasionally, vaguely topical articles are featured on the Main Page... - Mark 14:16, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I had a little difficulty distinguishing ITN from today's FA at first ... :-). Daniel Case (talk) 14:42, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

We have four Indian articles in ITN at the moment and you guys think two is too much :) Todor→Bozhinov 14:45, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Hey, do I sense a pro-bears bias the Main Page? At least it ain't another video game or another ad for a company! CuteLittleDoggie^{Let's play!} 15:51, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

India

WP:BIAS

Is it India Day or something? We have four topics in the news on India! Blofeld of SPECTRE (talk) 17:52, 23 October 2008 (UTC) LOL, I was born in India and even I say that it seems a little Indo-biased at the moment! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.140.145 (talk) 19:39, 23 October 2008 (UTC) Someone's been working hard at India articles, so we put them up. ffm 22:25, 23 October 2008 (UTC) Hm...I noticed the same thing. ;D. SpencerT♦C 22:45, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

how much did it cost?

How much did the furries pay to get ottersex on the front page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.207.43.214 (talk) 06:06, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

GreenReaper promised me his first born. Raul654 (talk) 06:16, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

What he didn't know is that all furries are gay. GreenReaper (talk) 20:23, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Add the current UTC time to the Main Page

I don't currently see the current time placed anywhere on the Main Page. I was wondering if that problem could be fixed. The time related templates are listed below.

{{CURRENTDAYNAME}}, {{CURRENTYEAR}}-{{CURRENTMONTH}}-{{CURRENTDAY2}} {{CURRENTTIME}} UTC
makes
Saturday, 2024-11-09 19:30 UTC Spitfire19 14:33, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

It's already there, at the bottom of On This Day. J Milburn (talk) 14:34, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

"Giant Otter Panic of 1907"?

It's about time that got some coverage! Oh. Never mind. - Richfife (talk) 20:20, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Hurricanes, hurricanes, hurricanes

Are hurricanes really the most interesting topics in the sum of human knowledge? According to Wikipedia, apparently. Kaldari (talk) 20:13, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi Kaldari.

When most people write for the fun of it, they will write about topics that interest them. One of our most prolific featured article writers happens to like studying hurricanes. In addition, Wikiproject Tropical cyclones is very close to (if it isn't...) our most active Wikiproject. Thus, we have a lot of featured articles about hurricanes.

If you would like to see articles about other topics featured on our Main Page, no one is stopping you from writing your own featured articles. Instead of complaining about things, why not take action to rectify the issue? J.delanoy^gabs_adds 20:38, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Could we at least have a different picture in the 'In the News' section? 2 hurricane pictures on the top row of the main page is a wee bit biased (systematic or not). DendodgeTalk^Contribs 20:43, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. And for the record, I've helped write 2 featured articles. I just can't keep up with the hurricane and TV show writers :( Kaldari (talk) 23:41, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Jdelanoy, I think the most active would be WP:MIL. ffm 23:50, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

We've decided that the next month is going to be devoted to covering hurricanes. In the News, Featured Articles and Featured Pictures will all be related to tropical cyclones. Have fun, Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP! :)} 00:51, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

As well as DYK and OTD! Spencer^T♦C 10:32, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Other wikipedias

Hi isn't it about time the other wikipedia count was updated at the bottom. German wikipedia now has 818,834 articles and to place it in a 300,000 column seems to be a bit of an understatement and not giving it credit. in comparison its like saying English wikipedia has over 1 million articles. At the very least an over 500,000 needs to be created. German, French, Italian, Japanese and Polish all have over 500,000 and Spanish, Dutch and Portuguese have over 400,000 Dr. Blofeld 11:58, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Please post at Template_talk:Wikipedialang. ffm 13:06, 28 October 2008 (UTC)