Talk:MLS is Back Tournament

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

On 13 August 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to MLS is Back tournament. The result of the discussion was not moved.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

MLS is Back.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:07, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sports Tables

I’m trying to learn how to edit a sports table on a Wikipedia table how do you bring a team like Inter Miami into the wildcard table? Trisaba (talk) 17:20, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Trisaba: By looking at your edit history, it looks like you figured it out. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:10, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah thx Trisaba (talk) 21:21, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

How do you edit teams advancing in the table? Seattle should say advance to a further round; no scenario leaves the Sounders out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:6010:4FE0:E84A:A9E3:9AA5:9E7F (talk) 04:43, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

New York Red Bulls were erroneously listed as Eliminated from the tournament. It isn't likely, but if the Chicago Fire lose by 3 goals AND HOU/Galaxy draw OR Galaxy win by just 1 goal, NYRB would advance as the 4th and final 3rd place team. I edited the tables (changed from E to Y) to indicate they are still alive and have not been eliminated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:602:8B01:4A0:1494:7395:C858:1CA7 (talk) 04:50, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Players infobox

Do we have any consensus regarding updating players' infobox for this tournament? Are we counting the stats in infobox as regular league matches or should we add them in 'other' section under player's career statistics? Saw MLS are counting points obtained in this tournament toward the regular season standings (which makes me confused). Anyone know about this? Kokoeist (talk) 07:29, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would check at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football instead. It's my understanding that the tournament is in lieu of regular season appearances. Walter Görlitz (talk) 13:40, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kokoeist: Appearances in group stage matches should be included in the infobox, as these count as regular season matches. However, the knockout matches are not, and should go in the "other" column of statistic tables. S.A. Julio (talk) 14:19, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Discussed on WikiProject Football Talk, Group Stage matches go in InfoBox. Knockout round matches do not (Can be placed in Other or similar category in the Career statistics box) SeeDiscussion here — Preceding unsigned comment added by RedPatchBoys (talk • contribs) 02:50, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Statistics section

At what point do we remove all the individual players with 1 goal or assist from the Leaders section and place it with a one line "## others" 1. Seems a bit superfluous to list every individual scorer. Other articles usually omit such tallies, listing only the top 5-10 leaders. RedPatchBoys (talk) 04:36, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, traditionally only the top ten. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:50, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 13 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Not moved largely based on use in reliable sources. (closed by non-admin page mover) ASUKITE 15:36, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

– The brand name is "MLS is Back"; as the article says, they applied it to their Covid-comeback tournament (quote: The name "MLS is Back" was reused from a marketing slogan used prior to the season.). Book sources appear to use majority lowercase "tournament". Per WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS we should not be dressing these up like a proper names unless sources consistently do so. Dicklyon (talk) 14:05, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Data from books is not enough to show up in n-grams let, but I do see about 20 hits with the phrase highlighted in search snippets with this book search, where 11 of the first 20 (first two pages of hits) use lowercase tournament. This shows clearly that our guideline criteria for treatment as a proper name are nowhere near being met. Dicklyon (talk) 14:13, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Most of these book results are low-quality print-on-demand titles. Many of them are clearly sourced from Wikipedia.
Oppose – Once again, the downcasing is going too far and represents a critical misunderstanding in how American English works for sports. Reliable sources with a history of good American soccer coverage (that is to say, not the majority of media in the US or abroad) make the distinction between this tournament—the one-time COVID bubble event—with the generic "MLS is Back" branding used for the first matchday of each MLS season in recent years. These include USA Today, SI (written by a real soccer author, rather than their later AI "authors"), Washington Post, The Athletic, The New York Times, and even ESPN (which is known for downcasing everything they can). Sounder Bruce 18:04, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support MLS Is Back tournament. The proper name here is MLS Is Back (with "Is" not "is"; there is no principle by which all short words are lower-cased in the middle of proper names, only short prepositions like "of" and "with", and the articles "the", "a", "an", and short conjunctions "and", "or"). As always, apply the standard MOS:CAPS rule (there is no cause for some "magical exception" here): only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in Wikipedia (emphasis in original). The entire phrase including "tournament" or "tournament final" is not consistently capitalized in the RS. And we already been over again and again and again some people's desire to capitalize things like "final", "semi[-]final", "last-16", "playoffs", etc. WP doesn't do that, since the sources generally don't, other than promotional and other non-independent ones (which often engage in "Rampant Marketing Capitals"). — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 01:52, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Where is the evidence that a majority of independent reliable sources actually downcased MLS is Back (2020) or used "MLS Is Back tournament" (which itself is not supported by MOS:CAPS)? This is a !vote that is not appropriate for building real consensus. Sounder Bruce 04:26, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per SMcCandlish. Tony (talk) 03:25, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The name of the competition is a proper noun and is consistently cited in reliable sources as either "MLS Is Back Tournament" or "MLS is Back Tournament"; only rarely is tournament not capitalized. WP:NCCAPS which was mentioned earlier literally states Article titles should be in sentence case, not title case. Only the first word is capitalized, except for proper names. Additional sources showing the full capitalization include the league itself (primary, I know), CBS, the Guardian, Forbes, Bleacher Report, and the CBC. No opposition to keeping "final" lowercase, which is not consistently capitalized. Jay eyem (talk) 04:30, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OpposeThe list of sources provided by @SounderBruce shows there is substantial usage of "MLS is Back Tournament" in reliable publication. While far less important, MLSSoccer.com refers to the tournament as "MLS is Back Tournament". I see no basis for using the lowercase version based on the reliable secondary sources covering this event. Brindille1 (talk) 02:56, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 14:53, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per SounderBruce. Giant Snowman 14:57, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.