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Cemeteries

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Should this article include the cemeteries designed by Lutyens? Étaples Military Cemetery is one example. There are many others as well. Not sure how these are best covered. @Tagishsimon: what do you think? Carcharoth (talk) 19:40, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, very much so, Carcharoth. My views: 1) all his works qualify - including furniture, if we have good-enough ref 2) Lutyens is ill-served by wikipedia right now and 3) this list article was, I think, 4 items long when I found it. I've shovelled some more information into it, but it begs for more thought and attention, and is most definitely in a plastic state. Which is to say, please improve it in whatever ways occur to you without concern that there are a hundred watchlists waiting to tell you you did wrong.
There might be a bit of thought to be given, now, or later, to the table structure. I've divided tables by country; others might want to divide by type of work, or have a single table so that they can choose how to order it. (It occurs to me as I write this ... I wanted to get rid of Country as a column for space reasons; but I could cope with a country column using two-letter abbreviations.)
Finally, if it is not already clear, I'd be delighted to see some input on this list. I've kinda wandered away in the direction of Women in Red and wikidata right now. thanks --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:52, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I might not have much time either, but HJ Mitchell might have time to help. There are items in the categories not yet on the list. That would be a good expansion point. Carcharoth (talk) 19:55, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ha! Time! I work nights, which is why I appear to be about in the day but I'm usually asleep all afternoon. It's taken me nearly a year just to turn of all his public war memorials in Britain into blue links and the half a dozen or so that were already blue are still in a sorry state (Manchester Cenotaph, for example, completely misses its significance). There are still major war memorials in central London that don't have articles. The cemeteries are one of those things I've been planning to get to "at some point". And people say Wikipedia's finished! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:01, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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York House, 292 Hills Road, Cambridge

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Do any editors have further information on this house, the last in the list of Houses and Gardens? It was added by IP 165.225.72.59 on 29 October 2016. Looking to knock off the remaining red links, I've done some digging and there appears some debate as to whether it actually is Lutyens. The source seems clear that the house was undertaken to his designs. The owner, Ridgeon, was a major builder, so perhaps Lutyens just did drawings? But it isn't listed. That seems implausible, although not impossible (I know of a William Burges church that was not listed until last year). I can't see it in the revised Cambridgeshire Pevsner, although I could have missed it as the entry for Hills Road is quite long. Lastly, it seems to be threatened by demolition, [1], [2], [3], or perhaps has by now been demolished. [It's still standing on Google Earth - CB20QG but I don't know when that was taken.] It would seem improbable that HE would not take a view on the demolition of a Lutyens building. Any information would be extremely helpful. Shall also post on the Architecture Project page. KJP1 (talk) 13:35, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Now heard back from the Lutyens Trust who say: "The Lutyens Trust has previously looked into the attribution of this house to Lutyens and concluded that it is not by him". They think it's a Crooksbury copy. So I shall take it out. KJP1 (talk) 14:58, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Are the Lutyens Trust saying that York House is a copy of Crooksbury House in Farnham?[4] It doesn't look much like it. It seems that Lutyens himself copied Crooksbury House in the design of Fig Tree Court nearby.[5] Several of Luytens houses are very similar (which reminds me on the quip that Haydn wrote the same symphony 100 times). Maybe another architect designed York House following some of Lutyens' designs. I can't York House find it in the 1970 Pevesner. The Cambridge Collection source[6] cites the Cambridge News, which while citable is not a top-quality source. I support your removal of the entry. Verbcatcher (talk) 15:46, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if the similarity was closer to the original Crooksbury, which the LT describes as new-Georgian, before Ned went back to dress it up in the Surrey vernacular? You’re quite right, it isn’t in the original Pevsner, nor in the 2012 revised. Nor is it listed, which is close to inconceivable for a Lutyens house. Lastly, it isn’t referenced in any of the Lutyens works I’ve read - which is most of them. That is not impossible, as his output was prolific, but it is another reason for scepticism. There was an almighty row when it was threatened with demolition, which may subsequently have occurred and, for obvious reasons, its defenders pushed the Lutyens connection. I suspect (OR) it is one of those cases where local newspapers etc., then picked up the Lutyens mention and repeated it as fact. As, I also suspect, did the IP who added it in 2016. All in all, I just don’t think there’s sufficient RS to include it in the list and I’m glad you agree. All the best. KJP1 (talk) 18:05, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

p.s. - I actually think Crooksbury and Fig Tree Court are parts of the same house. KJP1 (talk) 18:11, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Millmead House, Bramley, Surrey

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Agreeing with the above comment from 2 years ago! by User:KJP1. Carcharoth (talk) 22:35, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Now added - please check! Carcharoth (talk) 19:17, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

15 Lutyens War Crosses

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Pulling out a listing here of the 15 Lutyens War Crosses. Partly to see if there is enough to justify a standalone mini-list (maybe even a sub-article on the topic, or section of an article on Lutyens and his memorials work), or whether a list could be integrated into this list without disrupting it too much. There are some interesting differences and aspects to these memorials that could be covered if they are put together. Certainly a gallery of the 15 would be a good visual aid.

I have listed them above in order of unveiling date, rather than alphabetical. It would be useful to also note the dimensions and the locations (e.g. a map) and the type (e.g. local, civic, regimental, etc.). The articles themselves state that 'Leeds Rifles' was the only regimental one, and that Devon and York were the only 'city' ones. 'British Thomson-Houston Company' was similarly a 'work' focused one. The other 11 appear to have been local/village/parish memorials. There are two where no date (or no exact date) of unveiling is known. It is likely that with more sources available now, it may be possible to establish some or all of these missing dates. Carcharoth (talk) 22:51, 6 November 2024 (UTC) Survey of IWM register links and numbers of FWW names added. Carcharoth (talk) 12:35, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Carcharoth - hope you are keeping well. You’ve certainly been busy! I think putting the crosses together in a list would be excellent; the images are great and, as you say, I think there are some themes/divergences that could be highlighted.
On a related point, I think the main list needs to make clear it a bit clearer that it’s not definitive. It does say “some” of the works, but the Houses section is missing quite a lot. I want to add Berrydown Court, but can’t currently find an image. KJP1 (talk) 04:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! (Am keeping well.) Have you tried to find an image for Millmead House? Will see if I can find one for Berrydown Court. On the Lutyens crosses, is there a logical default order? Might some of the images benefit from cropping, or would a selection of perspectives be better? Carcharoth (talk) 18:49, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Miserden
    Miserden
  • Abinger Common
    Abinger Common
  • King's Somborne
    King's Somborne
  • Stockbridge
    Stockbridge
  • Devon County
    Devon County
  • Hartburn
    Hartburn
  • British Thomson-Houston Company
    British Thomson-Houston Company
  • Leeds Rifles
    Leeds Rifles
  • Ashwell
    Ashwell
  • Wargrave
    Wargrave
  • Holy Island
    Holy Island
  • Busbridge
    Busbridge
  • Muncaster
    Muncaster
  • Sandhurst
    Sandhurst
  • York City
    York City

The main conclusion from the above gallery is that better pictures are needed for many of them... Carcharoth (talk) 23:07, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Using the coordinates on the main article page, it is possible to see the geographic spread of the Lutyens Crosses. No particular pattern expected, but a concentration in the south. There are three in the North of England (two in Northumberland [Holy Island, Hartburn] and one in Cumbria [Muncaster]); two in West Yorkshire and North Yorkshire (Leeds and York); one in Devon, one in Gloucestershire, one in Warwickshire, one in Hertfordshire; one in Kent; and then a grouping of five to the west of London with one in Berkshire, two in Surrey and two in Hampshire. The locations arise from where people who commissioned his houses and memorials lived. A better focus of any article on these crosses would be the slight (sometimes quite major) differences in the designs. The most obvious is the sizes. Visually, it can be seen that the two largest are the two city ones, in York and Exeter. But not many sources give the heights - some that are available (from the IWM memorials register pages - a terrible source for this type of thing!) are: [King's Somborne: height c.5460 mm]; [Stockbridge: height 6080 mm]; [British Thomson-Houston Company: height 7300 mm]; [Leeds Rifles height: 20 FT EST - approx. 6 m]; [Holy Island: height c.5425 mm]; [Muncaster: unclear, but probably around 4080 mm, just over 4 metres from base of first step to top of cross]; [York City: height 30FT - about 9 metres]. It seems the Lutyens Crosses vary in height from 4 to 9 metres. The main bit of interest (architecturally) is the slight variations in designs. Carcharoth (talk) 13:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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