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Algerian War

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Either way you look at it, the Algerian war involved Algeria. Either the FLN represents Algeria, or the French government; in either case, Algeria was involved. To put it another way, it was either a civil war/insurgency, or an independence struggle; but Algeria was still involved. There is no way to spin this to argue that Algeria was not a part of the Algerian war. Vanamonde93 (talk) 07:33, 25 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A couple of issues

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@Mikrobølgeovn: I reverted the result of the Algerian War to the previous version which reflects what the sources say. However, should a one word parameter be necessary, I have one in mind and tons of sources to back it up. I'll be more than happy to include it, or if you wish, discuss the matter further.

This is a list of wars involving Algeria, as such, it should include the Western Sahara War, regardless of how or how many times Algeria was "involved" (that matter, just like for the October War, is discussed in details in the concerned article). Besides, it's properly sourced.

Can you please explain why you removed the red link from the FFS Rebellion ? M.Bitton (talk) 19:26, 9 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the Algerian War, I didn't really change anything; I just rearranged things a bit.
Unlike the October War, Algeria's involvement in Western Sahara was limited to a single engagement, and I thought it made more sense to just mention that one. I don't mind doing it either way, though.
I removed the red link because it's a red link; no use linking to a non-existent article. --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 19:29, 9 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in List of wars involving Algeria

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I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of wars involving Algeria's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ibtimes":

  • From List of wars involving Niger: "ISIS, Al Qaeda In Africa: US Commander Warns Of Collaboration Between AQIM And Islamic State Group". International Business Times. 12 February 2016.
  • From Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant in Libya: "Eulogy to Abu Nabil al-Anbari: Islamic State leader in Libya". International Business Times. 10 March 2016. Archived from the original on 11 March 2016. Retrieved 10 March 2016. Abul-Mughirah al-Qahtani, also known as Abu Nabil al Anbari, a senior Iraqi commander who was killed US air strikes in November 2015

Reference named "Naylor2015":

Reference named "ctc230613":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 23:29, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:09, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Enough of the edit wars

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Over the last month, this article has been changed to fit biased nationalistic narratives. Several wars were removed, the results of several wars were changed, and several wars with no relation to Algeria were added. Here is a list of these things that i noticed (there may be even more)

  • 10th century battles in Syria such as the Battle of Orontes included
  • First and Second crusades in the Levant included in an article about Algerian involvements in wars
  • Every. Single. Conflict. Between Morocco and the Zayyanid Kingdom which ended in a Moroccan victory such as the Siege of Tlemcen in 1335, was removed from the article.
  • Spanish invasions of the Zayyanid Kingdom which ended in Spanish victories removed from the article
  • Every war between the Regency of Algiers and Spain which ended in an Algerian defeat was removed from the article other than Alpujarras
  • Every single conflict between Morocco and the Regency of Algiers which ended in Algerian defeats and Moroccan victories were removed from the article
  • The result of the French-Algerian war of 1681-1688 was changed to indecisive despite it being a French victory
  • The result of the Maghrebi war which ended indecisively was changed to an Algerian victory
  • The result of the Algerian-Tunisian war of 1705 which ended indecisively and with an Algerian retreat from Tunis was changed to an Algerian victory
  • The result of the Russo-Turkish war which were a clear defeat for the Ottomans and thus their ally, Algeria, was changed to "indecisive" because the Algerians won a single naval battle at Andros. Just to note, the Algerians would later sustain a defeat at the Battle of Cape Kaliakra
  • Third campaign against Abdelkader, which ended in the literal collapse of the Emirate of Mascara and the annexation of Abdelkader's state into France is shown as an Algerian victory here
  • NATO whom were neutral during the Algerian war are shown as belligerents on the French side
  • Biafra war shown, despite Algeria barely being involved in it other than minor support to the Nigerian government
  • The alleged part of Moroccan involvement was purposefully removed from Morocco in the Algerian civil war

I have no idea how this has been going on for so long. Any attempts at changing the article were quickly removed by several users, some in a matter of minutes. This is a blatant breach of Wikipedia's WP:NPOV policy. Whatever748 (talk) 10:42, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Protected edit request on 20 November 2021

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Hi, @El C:,

The name «Algeria» comes from the name of the city of Algiers. The name «Algiers» derives from the Catalan Aljer, himself taken from Djezaïr, name given by Bologhine ibn Ziri, son of Ziri Ibn Menad founder of the Berber dynasty of the Zirids, when he built the city in 960 on the ruins of the ancient city with the Roman name Icosium, Djaza'ir Beni Mezghenna Source : Modern Algeria: The origins and development of a nation by John Douglas Ruedy, historian specializing in the history of Algeria

You need to change the page

It’s lying to people what you’re doing.

KarimAohh (talk) 18:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done Please include a complete and specific description of the request - along the lines of "Change X to Y" or "Insert P after Q". Note, this article is mostly a list of things that points to other articles, it is not itself a discussion of the etymology of the name of that country, which is available on this page: Algeria#Etymology. — xaosflux Talk 12:53, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, @Xaosflux:,
The Zirid dynasty and therefore Fatimid are part of the history of Algeria
* The name "Algeria" in, Arabic comes from the word "Zirid", it is the Zirids and the Fatimids who founded the city of Algiers in the 10th century
* Russia has as its ancestor the Kiev Rus', as Algeria (Djezaïr in Arabic) has as its ancestor the Zirids and the Fatimids.
Why suppresses the war coming from the Zirids who founded Algiers, and its origin of the word Algeria, and from the Fatimids (Fatimids who left from the Algerian east and who later created the Zirids), Source : Modern Algeria: The origins and development of a nation by John Douglas Ruedy, historian specializing in the history of Algeria and Louis Leschi, specialist in ancient North Africa.
And that’s real, weak, and verifiable
KarimAohh (talk) 10:18, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Out-of-scope material

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Having a second look here and it seems that since September 2024 this article has been massively expanded to include "wars" all the way back to the first millennium BC, which have no relation to modern Algeria other than existing on some of the same territory (and in some cases not even in the same territory). This should have never been expanded without a talk page discussion, as it radically alters the scope of the article, introduces new WP:NPOV and WP:OR problems, and makes the list unhelpfully long. The problem is made worse by the fact that most of the article, including all the recent expansions, is unsourced.

Up until September, the list only covered up to the Zayyanid period and it remained stable in this way for at least two years. An argument could still be made to not include medieval states either, but it's reasonable enough given that the post-Almohad states roughly correspond to the modern states and there is a similar consensus at List of wars involving Morocco and List of wars involving Tunisia (which go as far back as the Marinids and Hafsids respectively).

Given the scope and the lack of sources, I see nothing that can justify retaining the recent material and I will remove it. However, if someone wants to rescue the material for another list article with appropriate scope and add citations to it, you're welcome to do so even after removal (all content remains archived in the article's history). R Prazeres (talk) 07:37, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@105.97.158.158 Please read the explanation above and discuss it here. Wikipedia works by consensus and by content policies like verifiability; none of the removed content meets those criteria.
Also, since I'm not Egyptian and it would be irrelevant if I were, your "being Egyptian" comment ([1]) is nonsensical. Please discuss the actual content and follow Wikipedia's policies. R Prazeres (talk) 00:14, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging Whatever748, who made earlier comments and clean-up at this article, to see if they have thoughts on this issue. There are other options to pursue if needed, but right now all I see is one IP making mass unexplained edits and reverts, I'd appreciate input from other experienced editors. R Prazeres (talk) 21:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@R Prazeres sorry i wasn't active in recent days. The issue is that there isn't a standardized template when it comes to these sorts of articles i believe, correct me if i'm wrong. For some articles like Italy (1848), the UK (1707), etc. only the modern "iteration" of the nation is counted, while for Russia for example it goes back all the way to the Kievan Rus', and for Greece literally straight back to the Bronze age. There are no rules about what to include in these articles
I believe there was an unspoken rule that when it comes to the Northwest African states (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia) that nothing before the Almohad successor states would be included, and the other articles use this right now, but as i said i don't believe this was agreed upon, it was just sort of what we went with.
n
o Whatever748 (talk) 11:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, they're all over the place (a bit of a problem common to list articles in general), and indeed the List of wars involving Russia is tagged for that problem too. In List of wars involving Greece and List of wars involving Egypt there is at least agreement that there was such a thing as "Greece" and "Egypt" at the time, even if it doesn't necessarily make sense to include them in the same list in this manner.
The absurdity here, however, is that it includes states like the Zirids and Fatimids, who were based in Tunisia (and later Egypt for the Fatimids) and most of whose battles are well outside present-day Algeria and many even outside North Africa. Similar WP:OR and POV problems apply to the older "states". So are these additions an improvement? R Prazeres (talk) 17:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Somewhat relatedly, after looking further I've noticed some blatant POV disruptions and edit-warring from the current IP user making mass unexplained edits, e.g.: [2], [3] and [4], [5]. At best, one of these changes might be debatable at the linked article, but IP isn't interested in discussion. R Prazeres (talk) 17:51, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article presents a risk of WP:OR and anachronism: how can we talk about Algeria in the Middle Ages? in Antiquity?
We must prioritize formulations of the time: central Maghreb or Numidia. Monsieur Patillo (talk) 19:26, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. It may be possible to have a list along the lines of "List of wars in the Maghreb (...)" with some kind of additional specification for historical periods, but the least problematic solution would likely be to make lists for separate states, e.g. List of wars involving the Kingdom of Numidia, List of wars involving the Fatimid Caliphate, and so on. If any of the new material was sourced, I would be inclined to move the material to new lists right now, but as it is it's entirely uncited and contains WP:OR (to what extent I'm not sure, but certainly some details). Unless there is a consensus otherwise, I'll restore the original scope of the article. R Prazeres (talk) 21:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A list of Maghreb wars is a WP:OR, with an additional geographical difficulty. The best solution is to transform this article into a list of wars in the History of Algeria, with appropriate sections/names: Numidia/ Maghreb Centram/ Regency of Algiers/ Algeria ... Regards Monsieur Patillo (talk) 22:32, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A "list of wars in the history of Algeria" with that same content would still present the same problems, as it's essentially a paraphrase of the current title. Again, the simplest alternative would be to create lists for specific historic states, as far as they would be actually sourced and useful.
Also, I just found that there is already a List of conflicts in Algeria (and similar ones for Morocco and Libya). It may present a similar set of problems, in addition to significant overlap, but at least it seems to be defined as conflicts within the territory of present-day Algeria (rather than any implication about the identity of historic states) and it's a simpler list containing less potential WP:OR details. As an index of relevant articles about battles and wars, it might actually be more useful than this article. R Prazeres (talk) 23:20, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We fall back on the same problems. What was the Maghreb in Antiquity ? This is also an anachronism. Studying the history of modern countries is nevertheless a subject of current academic study (when picking up a book it is usually "Histories of Algeria", "...Morocco" "... France "...). The historicity of the States is another issue: presenting facts as "Algerian" or in the history (=past) of (current) Algeria is not the same thing. Monsieur Patillo (talk) 00:23, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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