Talk:List of sumo record holders

Most consecutive wins - Tochiazuma?

Re the new "Most consecutive wins from entry into sumo", should Tochiazuma be included? His record at Sumo Reference shows 26 consecutive white circles from his first tournament, but he appears to have missed his first three matches, so his first score is 4-0-3. Should this mean he doesn't qualify?--Pawnkingthree (talk) 01:23, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion he qualifies.--ALAKTORN (talk) 14:47, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, no idea how I missed this until now, but after checking it out, I completely agree with your assessment and will add Tochiazuma (always one of my favorites anyway) forthwith. FourTildes (talk) 15:05, 26 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Amount of times a rikishi got kachikoshi on nakabi?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRjp-yZDC6g&t=2m44s

This video shows the statistic, Hakuhō is now tied 1st with Chiyonofuji at 25 times. I think we should make a table for this, what are your thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ALAKTORN (talk • contribs) 18:31, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure. The article is already pretty crowded. I will let Pawnkingthree chime in as this article is his brainchild and mostly his work. FourTildes 21:09, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

It's a nice stat but perhaps a little bit too obscure for the article – I would be wary of adding too many more tables as I agree with FourTildes that it is already rather long.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 18:00, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Most wins in a calendar year (90 bouts)

I noticed this table only has 9 entries instead of being a more logical top 10, why is that? Shouldn’t a 10th rikishi be added?--ALAKTORN (talk) 16:28, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Data is not available; if you can find the 10th rikishi and add him, that would be great. There is a similar issue with the ″most consecutive appearances″ tables.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:47, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hakuhō’s win-loss ratio?

The page says “As of November 25, 2012, Hakuhō's is 83.7%”, but how was that calculated…? Because Hakuhō’s record is currently 721–170 as seen here, and that gives 80.9% with a 4–1 record in the current basho (January 2013).--ALAKTORN (talk) 16:06, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well spotted. Looks like it was a mistake – I′ve corrected the article.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 02:01, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No mistake. It´s only the Top Division Ratio. And there he is 650-124, which ist 84.0%. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:51:490B:FC01:5402:D19C:BE7F:2319 (talk) 10:24, 27 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Most consecutive wins – Ishiura?

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=12051

Should he be added as a 6th place, or is that table only a top 5? (I don’t know if there are any rikishi with a better record.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.211.186.59 (talk) 15:28, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the query at sumo reference similar to the one I used to track down the consecutive wins. http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=4&n_basho=3&sum_wins=19&form1_losses=0&form1_jk=on&form2_losses=0 It is for 19 or more wins, with no losses in the first two basho, which is enough to narrow down the numbers. Sifting through the numbers, Fukao/Akiseyama is at 20 with 5 more: Konishiki, Daishoyama, Roho, Sakaizawa and Ishiura for a total of 11 wrestlers on an expanded list. Notice that a few on the list don't qualify because they fell back to Jonokuchi through injury and then worked their way back up. There are also a few older wrestlers who full records aren't listed and their consecutive wins can't be verified. I am not against adding the 19 and up wrestlers. If you would like to do it yourself, please use the query to do so. FourTildes (talk) 21:20, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Terao’s career wins

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31854&page=16#entry249088

There was a discussion there about how wins should be counted… I’m not quite sure myself but just thought I should bring it up.83.211.186.59 (talk) 20:02, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And the discussion has recently come up again, now that Wakanosato has surpassed him. Basically we go with what the Sumo Association have, which is with the two maesumo wins included (ie, 860).--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:18, 17 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Non-yokozuna championships

Is there a reason as to why there isn't a table for the most championships won by non-yokozuna? Nergaal (talk) 10:20, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

We could have records for virtually anything, but the article would quickly become very bloated. And I don't think that example is a particularly interesting one, although that's just my personal opinion. (To answer it though, it would be either Takanohana, with seven before his promotion, or Kaio with five if you exclude those who went on to reach yokozuna.) --Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:14, 17 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Kisenosato's consecutive bout streak

Kisenosato has had a torikumi scheduled for every day in his career since he was promoted to Makuuchi in 2004, that much is true. However, the "total bouts" figure excludes fusenpai, which Kisenosato had on Day 15 of Hatsu 2014, and I would expect the consecutive bouts figure to do so as well even if not specifically stated. It seems very odd to exclude them in one of the categories and exclude them from the other.69.14.151.124 (talk) 02:20, 8 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I was unaware that Kisenosato had ever had a fusenpai. In my opinion, that should mean the end of his streak. The fact is he didn't turn up at the stadium, so it should not count as an appearance in "total bouts", and it should not count as part of a "consecutive bouts" streak either. Fusensho is different, as you have to get on the dohyo to claim your win - that's why we do count those.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 02:32, 8 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It was just missed I am sure. There is no argument that a fusenpai doesn't break a streak. It is broken by definition. Somebody should update it when they get the time. I will myself if someone doesn't beat me to it. FourTildes (talk) 11:21, 8 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

His consecutive streak in makuuchi, which certainly ended with his fusenpai in 2014, appears to be 839. I will move him to the bottom of the list. There may very well be another rikishi with a number higher than his, but lower than Kitanoumi. Anybody who would like to research and confirm this please do. FourTildes (talk) 13:06, 8 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Just had to revert another user who incorrectly put him back - we need to keep an eye on this.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:01, 3 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Top division win ratio - fusensho

Regarding the best top division win records, this seems to be calculated as follows: (1 - losses / (losses + wins)) * 100. This means fusensho losses are excluded, but fusensho wins are included. So some of the wins included in these record are wins that they didn't have to fight for...personally I think we should leave those out.

I think the solution is simple, but correct me if I'm wrong. Taking Taiho as example, he had 8 fusensho wins. Wins + losses = 890 matches. Total matches listed on his Sumo DB page is 881. So his total number of wins, without fusensho: losses - number of matches.

That would create the following list:

Taihō: 83.7% (737 wins, 144 losses) (instead of 83.8%)
Futabayama: 80.2% (275 wins, 68 losses) (same)
Asashōryū: 79.5% (592 wins, 153 losses) (instead of 79.6%)
Haguroyama: 77.0% (315 wins, 94 losses) (instead of 77.3%)
Kitanoumi: 76.3% (796 wins, 247 losses) (instead of 76.5%)

Out of interest, here's the four current Yokozuna, as of Jul 23, 2017:

Hakuhō: 84.8% (953 wins, 171 losses)
Harumafuji: 65.5% (696 wins, 366 losses)
Kakuryuu: 60.3% (534 wins, 351 losses)
Kisenosato: 61.9% (696 wins, 428 losses)

Please let me know what you think. At the very least I think we should clarify how the calculation is made. Dada78641 (talk) 14:34, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've never cared for this section myself - I think it veers into WP:NOR terriority when we try to calculate these things ourselves. Is there a reliable source anywhere (even if Japanese language only) that lists win-ratios? On the fusensho point, we include fusensho wins in the list of career and top division wins so for consistency's sake I think we should do the same here.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:39, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I usually stay out of percentages talk as it is not my strong suit. By the way, for clarity, a fusenSHO means literally "no fight win" (it is the same sho in yusho), a "no fight loss" is a "fusenPAI".FourTildes (talk) 22:52, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The point about not calculating things ourselves is well made, as is the point about including fusensho wins in other places. I feel the section itself is fine, though, considering we're really just relaying Sumo DB's numbers and it is certainly an appropriate source, right? In any case, I'll edit the section to clarify what the numbers mean. Dada78641 (talk) 10:16, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

See my edit. Note, Hakuho's percentage was calculated in the same way as the other records, including fusensho wins. Dada78641 (talk) 10:22, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A belated comment: I think calculating ratios from numbers for which there is a reliable source (in this case, the sumodb site) falls under WP:CALC and is thus perfectly permissible, as long as no editor disagrees that the calculation is obvious and correct. The problem is not doing the calculation ourselves, but establishing which ratio is looked at (with/without fusensho and fusenpai), if at all. I'll try to find a source on that. Rontombontom (talk) 09:20, 23 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Most consecutive Kachikoshi

Would you find interesting and relevant to add this statistic? An alternative would be "Most consecutive Kachikoshi from sumo debut". Sumo ch (talk) 09:08, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Sumo ch: If you have that information I think it would be worthwhile to add it. I know Kitanoumi had the makuuchi record of 50, with I think Musashimaru one behind on 49. Musashimaru may well hold the record from sumo debut.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:37, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Most championship playoffs misnumbered?

Sorry if I'm reading this wrong, but I think the last grouping of rikishi in the "Most championship playoffs" chart should be 11 instead of 10. I assume this is just a new error because Takakeisho got a 5th in September. If so, the 11's should be dropped, right? Most of the other lists seem to be top 10. Lancelarock (talk) 17:51, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Most consecutive wins for a new juryo/ makuuchi (in his first tournament)?

Takerufuji recently recorded his eighth consecutive victory, and the press reported that he was only the sixth wrestler in sumo history to achieve this feat (source). If I'm not mistaken, it was also mentioned that Ōnosato was also one of the rare wrestlers to have nine consecutive wins from day one in his first Juryo tournament. What would be the consensus for adding a section to "Most wins" on these two subjects? - OtharLuin (talk) 14:05, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]