Talk:List of series run in Weekly Shōnen Jump

Problems

Excuse me, but why do we need to reference or source, wikify, etc. a......list? I thought you only have to source articles? – J U M P G U R U @^{Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia} 17:06, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

No, lists require references too. Take a look at featured lists, you'll find they are well referenced. The lead needs referencing, as does the prose in the "Monthly Shōnen Jump Holdovers" section. The contents of the list need references as well, to show the factualness of the list contents; otherwise no one can say for sure the list is correct. I've removed the wikify tag. No idea who added it, but it seems like all titles/authors that have articles are linked. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 17:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, well then, let's get goin'! Makes sense. – J U M P G U R U @^{Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia} 17:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

As I saw it, the list really spoke for itself. The references are the actual issues which these series ran in. Meanwhile, what else are we supposed to say? I tried to have an introduction regarding the eras, but I deleted that when it appeared that wasn't what this list needed and was probably just generalizations. -StrangerAtaru (talk) 17:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

The list doesn't include most of the issues, just general years. So the actual issues can't be considered references when no one knows what they are. The lead needs some context and to summarize the list as a whole. As a side note, the tables need to be fixed so they are all the same width (cleaner appearance), and the ja: links removed. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 17:41, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

What sort of references work then? This isn't like something you can draw out of a book. Heck, most of the information on here I had to get off of Japanese websites, including the Wiki, mostly as a means to show what else was out there besides the series everyone else knew about. -StrangerAtaru (talk) 17:46, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

The best reference is the magazine, but without the month/year, we can't cite a specific episode. Baring that, ANN or reliable Japanese websites. Its probably easiest to find for those series released in English, though. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 17:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Say, then, we use a website that lists every single issue of Jump, in particular the issue something started and thus the month when it began. If we cite that, will that be good enough as a means? (I know of a couple good Jump listing websites so that can help us but I need to know whether to use month or issue number) -StrangerAtaru (talk) 17:54, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Only if that website meets WP:RS; then it can be used as a general website for the list itself, but the lead and other prose still needs sourcing. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 18:40, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I only have one question to Ataru, "Is the starman site made by a fan, or is it official?". – J U M P G U R U @^{Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia} 19:03, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

The websites I use seem well versed on Jump but I can't say whether they are reliable or not. The Starman site I like to use for the '68-'00 series does have verifiable holdings of practically every Jump from that era (there are pictures showing that this person does own the actual issues) so what they say is pretty much the exact same thing as a Jump Table of Contents for each issue. But since it isn't exactly a published thing, I can't specifically say if this is a reliable source that can be used under the guidelines of Wikipedia. -StrangerAtaru (talk) 20:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

If he's showing a picture of each issue and its clear which issue it is in the picture, then source the issue *whistle innocently* :D -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 01:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

It actually would be even more verifiable if he put up the actual TOC page itself (there is one page that puts up TOC but it only does it for certain profiled issues, not for every single Jump issue), but if that's a go-ahead for a source, I'll try and see how to make it work. -StrangerAtaru (talk) 13:29, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Very true, but basically you'll be sourcing each issue rather than him, under the idea that he is providing correct information from his copies (similar to if you had asked a project member to check an issue of a mag who lists themselves in the ref library. Please use {{cite journal}} to do so :P. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 14:36, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

New question then: there are hundreds of Jump series and I need to site their start and end issues. Does this mean I have to do it for each and every entry twice? Isn't there an easier way to do this? (since the reference section could get awfully clogged) -StrangerAtaru (talk) 14:52, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, a ref would be needed on each start and end (which needs to be split into two columns). You can used named refs, but that really only helps with items that started or ended in the same issue. :( -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 14:58, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Alright, I don't know if this is right but I think I'm starting to get the hang of this referencing. I really only have one complaint: anything that shares the same issue gets treated as a different reference (there were some things happening in the first issue and they are treated as different references...this could be a clog on the page later) -StrangerAtaru (talk) 01:52, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget the page numbers. Also, note the table of contents shouldn't be used as a reference. It only notes that the work appeared in that issue. The first page of the work is what will generally indicate that its a new series. If the TOC does have "new series" and "last chapter" tags, only then can it be used. If the refs are exactly the same, use named references to compact it. Take a look at the code in Shojo Beat#Series to see an example of refs using the magazine, and on using named refs. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 01:55, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll check it but at the same time, here's the problem: its really hard to get this sort of information on page numbers in the United States. The Shojo Beat page references work because its an American publication, where we can get verification and information much easier than a weekly Japanese magazine going through the last 40 years. I created this list based on the information I had available at the time, including the websites I mentioned prior. Sure they need references and a bit of sprucing but that's more for officialization. I'm trying to work with you but its just extremely hard and I'm starting to think the best option (which I really, really don't want to do since so many things will be lost to the US if I do that) is scrap this altogether. -StrangerAtaru (talk) 02:05, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

(de-indent) Page numbers are important though, to actually verify. Don't the pictures of the TOCs include the page numbers? -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:28, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

The TOC do list page numbers...but not the websites I've been using. All they list is the respective position in the magazine. Outside the most recent years (at least since '07), we really don't have any reference (or haven't found one yet online) for page numbers of older Jump issues. -StrangerAtaru (talk) 02:42, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

# of chapters

Hey! Can we add the # of chapters for each series? Seeing that someone is working in the last issue it appear I think is good ande usefull info. 189.136.30.94 (talk) 07:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Can't see any reason this is really needed. One chapter per issue, and the start/end is already given. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 13:25, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Shonen Jump 092683.jpg

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Sourcing matters

I was just looking over the Japanese WSJ titles page which actually seemed to match our own...but somewhat better. They actually did the whole "listing the issues" bit that we were supposed to do, but their source were all "from the actual Jump issue". Considering they were able to do that in Japan, could we use that as our reference source too or do we have to go something more concrete? -StrangerAtaru (talk) 01:36, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, we can also use the actual issues as sources, though it *would* be nice if someone was able to physically confirm all the dates. Another "hard" source is volume 1 from each series (where they get collected into volumes); my understanding is that there is always a page somewhere in the volume saying that the chapters in that volume were originally published in magazine X on dates Y through Z... or something like that. Unfortunately, this information is almost never preserved when a series is licensed, translated, and released in English, which is really a shame, since it would make our job a whole lot easier. =P 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000} 18:03, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Personally I say we just say "from that issue" to allow us to put that information in and have a bit of a stronger Wiki page (like the Japanese page) without having us dig through over forty years of history just to find the TOC/actual page where it states that this is "the beginning" or "the end" of the series. I know it's cheating but somehow if the Japanese Wiki is getting away with it, then it should be allowed on all Wiki making the list of "every series". -StrangerAtaru (talk) 20:55, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not saying we have to confirm the information from a physical copy before it can be added and sourced as such; I'm merely saying it would be nice to have that confirmation. If someone has access to back issues of WSJ, and is willing to do this for us, please go ahead and do it, but we shouldn't wait for that to happen before we add this information. 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000} 17:40, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

First Issue

The way the First Issue part is currently is silly, as when sorting by it, it lists the series by the issue it first appeared in, regardless of the year the issue is from. -86.50.110.60 (talk) 08:55, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Drive to fill in the 2010 section

Most of the list is borderline impossible to fill in with checked sources due to the age, and many of the titles are largely unknown in a modern context. However there should be plenty of sources for anything post 2000. In many cases the sources are actually in the articles for those titles, a few of which I've added. Anime News Network also reports on new/finishing titles with issue numbers. We should be able to fill out much of the 2010s section in this way and over a short period of time.

Jump+ section

May I please add a list of Jump+ serializations to the page? It’s essentially Jump, but digital Eclispeo (talk) 22:29, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Weekly Shōnen Jump and Shōnen Jump+ are very different. The Shōnen Jump+ article already has title lists in the current and finished series sections. Link20XX (talk) 22:37, 25 September 2021 (UTC)