Talk:List of saints of the Serbian Orthodox Church

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Rename, two options

The previous rename took place without any discussion. According to [1] the Eastern Orthodox churches recognize each others' saints by default. So e.g. saints of the Church of Greece are also saints of the Serbian Orthodox Church and vice versa. In orded to reduce overlap this list should at least be renamed to something like List of saints canonized by the Serbian Orthodox Church, in order to clarify that it is not about recognition. But that in turn may raise verification issues with saints from long time ago. So a safer option is List of Serbian Orthodox saints. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:08, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Marcocapelle Thanks for starting this discussion.

I am very much in favour of List of saints canonized by the Serbian Orthodox Church. It tells it like it is, unambiguously. If other (orthodox) churches want to recognise the saints canonised by the SOC as well, that's fine, but that's not really as defining as those canonised by the SOC itself. The church which does the canonising should be front and centre to any effort at listing and categorising saints, because they are the decision-makers here.

I don't really see the advantage of the second option. What does Serbian Orthodox saints even mean? People who were canonised by any church whatsoever, but identified with Serbian Orthodoxy while they were alive? That seems like a trivial intersection that is very prone to WP:OR, just like the "nationality" of the saint when he/she was alive (particularly in pre-modern times when "nationality" wasn't really a thing the way it is today). NLeeuw (talk) 15:29, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I might add that the formula List of saints canonized by church X also really helps with chronological and historiographical issues that I ran into with List of Russian saints (until 15th century) and List of saints in the Russian Orthodox Church. Because "until 15th century" does not signify when the canonisation took place, nor who is doing the canonising, but when the person who was canonised later (sometimes many centuries later) died. So what we end up with is a confused mess, where the Russian Orthodox Church in 1909 is canonising people who died in 862 and 885, even though the title says "saints (until 15th century)". Also important: what we now call the "Russian Orthodox Church" didn't exist in the 15th century, let alone the 9th century, and "Russian" didn't really exist as a "nationality" yet either. So there is a lot of WP:OR/WP:SYNTH and just general confusion going on here. On the other hand, if we just split it into, for example, List of saints canonized by the Metropolis of Kiev and all Rus', List of saints canonized by the Metropolis of Moscow and all Rus', List of saints canonized by the Russian Orthodox Church, that would make a lot more sense, and avoid anachronisms. NLeeuw (talk) 15:40, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why can't the criteria for being included in this article be 1. be a member of the Serbian Orthodox Church, and/or 2. be canonised by the Serbian Orthodox Church? 𝔅𝔦𝔰-𝔖𝔢𝔯𝔧𝔢𝔱𝔞? 14:53, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bis-Serjetà? raises a valid point here. — Sadko (words are wind) 15:15, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]