Talk:List of million-selling singles in the United Kingdom

Mysterious Girl

You might want to look up "Mysterious Girl" by Peter Andre which has also sold over a million due to its 3 appearances in the chart. I'd look for proof, but I can't be bothered right at the moment!--Tuzapicabit (talk) 02:49, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, according to 1996 in British music; "Mysterious Girl" sold 750,000 copies, and 2004 in British music gives sales of 261,000, giving a total of 1,011,000. The flying pasty (talk) 17:14, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's only Shipped a million copies and it's sold quite a bit less - I've heard that a few times, though maybe it has, I can't be certain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.148.197 (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Dancing Queen

The OCC tell me that ABBA's 'Dancing Queen' has now passed a Million UK Sales. It sold 850,000 in 1976, 70,000 in 1992, & it has sold 85,000 to 120,000 on Downloads, in the past few Years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.22.122.117 (talk) 22:34, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but everything is selling on downloads now - so all figures are slightly skewed. Dancing Queen can be added as long as you have a) a figure and b) a verifiable source.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 01:20, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I looked this up on Google and all I found was this website (www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24971); not really a reliable enough source to justify including it on the list. I've had similar problems finding sources for "Angels" and others which have also reportedly passed a million sales. The flying pasty (talk) 15:24, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

UKMix has been banned from Wikipedia as a reference, which is fair enough. I think we'll have to wait till the OOC comes up with a new top 100 (maybe in 2012?) to get the new figures. There arre probably a number of new million sellers, but then the likes of "Bohemian Rhapsody" has probably got a much higher figure now as well due to downloads - as has everything.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 22:53, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Dates

The original release dates should be included —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.232.228.174 (talk) 15:53, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, done!--Tuzapicabit (talk) 22:51, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Baby one more time

I have seen a lot of other lists where this is down at number 24, and sold c. 1.4m. Has it suddenly sold some more?!?

Candle

it has sold 4,864,611. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.174.39 (talk) 00:19, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

...and 11 copies! Is this a joke? I think we can happily round it off to 4.865. As for Baby one more Time, don't know if it's been moved but with downloads now all singles are selling more all the time, but if it sold more then everything has (even more reason not to be so specific with Candle...)Had a look and yes, someone has bumped it up. Moved it back (it's No.25)--Tuzapicabit (talk) 09:38, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for correcting baby one mor time. as for the 4864611 for candle, look at any of:

http://www.telinco.com/seekers/Top_100.htm

http://www.bpi.co.uk/index.asp?Page=charts/content_file_258.shtml

(para 16 of the above)

http://forums.nutsie.com/viewtopic.php?p=1105840&sid=b41aef2f4fdd7b463f742410646c2e39

(scroll down a bit)

etc etc

So, no, it isn't a joke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.174.39 (talk) 16:32, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I'm sure that's the official listing, but to count it up to the very last individual copy is unnecessary. Change it if you want, but if I was to go and download it now would it then be 4,864,612 sales?--Tuzapicabit (talk) 16:40, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

i think there is a difference between certified and actual number of sales. but i really cant be bothered to argue.

More million sellers (?)

Apparently Angels and Fame have also now passed the million sales mark, unfortunately I can't find any reliable sources or figures. Also, I don't know how the current sales figures stand for Crazy or Bleeding Love; both were around the 940,000 mark about four/five months back but have probably managed a few more thanks to downloads. If anyone could help here on any of these? —Preceding unsigned comment added by The flying pasty (talk • contribs) 15:12, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

It seems that Poker Face has passed the million sales mark as well - unfortunately I don't have a reliable source so can't add it. Ditto for 'Long Haired Lover From Liverpool' which was seemingly the elusive # 101 (quite where this leaves White Christmas I don't know). But then with downloads figures are constantly changing - there'll likely be others that pass in the next few months (hope all that makes sense!) The flying pasty (talk) 19:18, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Acording to Music Week in June 2010, Crazy is still just short: "Gnarls Barkley’s Crazy (983,047 sales to date, growing by 500 a week)". Others I've added to the list with references. White Christmas isn't there because sales from November 52 onwards are used and so it doesn't qualify through OCC classification, probably would be there if pre-52 sales data existed/was used. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

UPDATE?!?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/6417615/UKs-Top-selling-singles-of-all-time.html

5 and 6 have swapped, and have gone past 2m.

not sure where telegraph got this from —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.44.36 (talk) 22:47, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Image caption

The image caption either needs to state that Elton John rewrote Candle in the Wind or wrote Candle in the Wind 1997, since it's currently stating he wrote the original song for Diana. Someoneanother 18:48, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks I'd even considered this but must of omitted the 1997 in the title because the year was already in the caption. Now ammended, thanks for pointing that out but feel free to make the edits yourself. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:04, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Normally I wouldn't waste anyone's time and just do it myself, but felt a little weird about altering that caption for some strange reason. Thanks. Someoneanother 20:59, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Source

Hi!
Where can I fing a reliable source for the list? THANKS! Ofekalef (talk) 08:18, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Clicking on the [nb 5] next to "Date sold one million" and it says that the entries are cited by the general reference unless the date has an inline citation next to it. All the information is well cited, if an entry doesn't have an inline citation next to it I suggest looking at the column header and reading the note associated with it. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 09:54, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

I need a reference for the [[Angels (Robbie Williams song), but in the sites there is no mention to the place.. Ofekalef (talk) 09:32, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Try the BBC million sellers radio show: this BBC url has a tracklist with Angels on it. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:49, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

'Crazy' and 'Someone Like You' have both sold a million

Crazy by Gnarls Barkley and Someone Like You by Adele have both been confirmed as million sellers through the OCC's official Facebook page (they confirmed Crazy a while ago so I'm not sure why it isn't on th list yet):

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Official-UK-Charts/122021789562

"Official UK Charts Million selling singles from the past 5 years... 2009: I Gotta Feeling – Black Eyed Peas – 1.2m 2009: Hallelujah – Alexandra Burke – 1.2m 2009: Poker Face – Lady Gaga – 1.1m 2008: Sex On Fire – Kings Of Leon – 1.1m 2007: Bleeding Love – Leona Lewis – 1.0m 2006: Crazy – Gnarls Barkley – 1.0m"

"Official UK Charts Congratulations to Adele as Someone Like You has now sold ONE MILLION copies! It's the first release this decade to break the barrier and took 23 weeks. The single has spent 5 weeks in 2 separate spells at Number One. This week both '21' and '19' have spent their 20th week in the Top 5 together with '21' now selling a staggering 2.6m copies in 23 weeks." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.81.95 (talk) 17:47, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

The reason Crazy isn't listed is that there is no reliable source stating it is a million-seller. Music Week stated on 1 June 2010 in an article about BEP being the 101st million-seller the current standing of singles close to a million stating "Gnarls Barkley’s Crazy (983,047 sales to date, growing by 500 a week)"[1]. In fact I've just found this so I'll add them in now. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 18:29, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

 Done. This now covers all 105 million-sellers. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 18:55, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Another new addition to the list - someone please add

Bruno Mars' Just The Way You Are is confirmed. Source: http://www.theofficialcharts.com/chart-news/bruno-mars-joins-the-one-million-sellers-elite/ That article says it's the 108th million seller though, not the 106th - so there must be two others that have silently passed the million mark recently. Or maybe they've finally decided to combine 'Mysterious Girl' or something. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.81.95 (talk) 13:17, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

"Love The Way You Lie" has just been confirmed - as the 107th million seller. The flying pasty (talk) 13:16, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

All 123 now revealed by the OCC with sales figures!

The OCC has finally released the list of all 123 UK million sellers, with sales figures. This list should be checked and the sales figures added. The "date certified" column could go too maybe? 92.236.248.114 (talk) 23:14, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

UK Million Sellers - OFFICIAL LIST

Here is a list of the best selling singles ever in the UK as compiled by the Official Charts Company

http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/the-million-sellers-the-uks-biggest-ever-selling-singles-revealed-1685/ (Coachtripfan (talk) 18:21, 15 December 2012 (UTC))

Official Charts Company - compiler since 1990s

The OCC came into being in 1990 (as CIN). It became the 'official' chart compiler in 1994. Sales pre-1990 are mainly record company estimates - with some certifications. There were no official sales chart prior to 1969. The BMRB compiled charts from a sample of 250 shops - 5% of all outlets from 1969-82 and Gallup took over with a larger sample until 1994. The OCC didn't have these old chart sales. Take with a pinch of salt these "All Time" (Coachtripfan (talk) 19:52, 24 April 2013 (UTC))

Restructure/split?

I'd like to propose completely restructuring the table in this list. It seems to me that the reason why most of our readers view this article is so that they can find out what are the biggest-selling singles in the UK, and the table, in its current format, doesn't best help them to learn this. They would somehow need to know in advance that they have to sort the sixth column, and that's not intuitively obvious at all. I'd suggest redoing the table so that the biggest-selling songs are listed at the top when it first loads.

OR, if that doesn't sound appealing, how about splitting off the sales information into a separate article, e.g. List of best-selling singles in the United Kingdom? Keep the info regarding the importance of 1m sales and the dates at which the singles achieved it in this article, and move the info about which ones are the biggest-selling into another. I reckon that we could, hypothetically, achieve this without it becoming a content fork. I welcome any thoughts on the matter. Thanks, A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 17:18, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

No thoughts? Very well, I've just been bold and made the split (see List of best-selling singles in the United Kingdom). A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 20:32, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Assuming sales from multiple platinum awards

@Unreal7: The BPI certifications are not based purely on sales, necessarily, so careful of interpreting them. See, for example Evergreen by Will Young, certified triple platinum (1.8M units) but recorded as 1.79M sales. In the past this was due to shipments (ie physical records sent to shops) being included, but these days, more likely, due to streaming being included at 100 streams = 1 unit. (80 songs and albums were upgraded based on streaming backdated to the start of the year) At the moment the OCC is recording 'combined sales' (physical records + downloads + streams/100) for their weekly chart but also has a 'sales chart' which excludes streaming. How this will resolve itself in the future I don't know - we may have 2 figures for each song or they may just redefine what a sale is (as they did when they first included downloads). But, until then, I think that interpreting Pharrell Williams: Happy being certified triple platinum as meaning 1.8M sales as debatable. (although, the rate it's going it clearly will pass this mark soon anyway) Btljs (talk) 22:32, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Note also Passenger double platinum, Clean Bandit double platinum (not even recorded as 1M seller) Btljs (talk) 23:11, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

update

The OCC has just added Clean Bandit as a million seller and I think from the wording it is clear that 'sales' will not include streaming. So I have changed the opening paragraph to clarify that and the fact that platinum awards cannot be used to determine sales. I've reverted Happy to 1.52 which is the latest sales figure from the OCC. Btljs (talk) 06:53, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Ordering

The list claims that "I Feel Love", "Hey Jude", "White Christmas", "Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Ole Oak Tree", "I Will Survive", "Sailing", "Under the Moon of Love" and "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" hit 1 million sales some time between 2010 and 2012, and yet each of them have a definitive number in terms of the order they hit the million mark. Also, it says that "I Will Survive" might have hit it as early as 2004, which is earlier than other ones just before it such as "IDWTMAT" and "STIUTK". Does that just mean when the songs were certified, rather than when they actually did hit the mark? Unreal7 (talk) 22:02, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Blue Monday

Anybody actually have a source which gives the date when Blue Monday passed a million sales? It's not listed as a million seller during the 80s, but is this a case of recalculation later or sales during the 90s? (one for you maybe @Richard3120:?) Btljs (talk) 08:10, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

No, I'm pretty certain it was after the 80s as well (especially considering the songs around it in the 1980s best-sellers list didn't pass the million mark until the 2000s), but I have no idea when. It might well say in some edition of Music Week but that would take some searching. Richard3120 (talk) 08:45, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Did they always count all the remixes towards the total back in the 80s? Btljs (talk) 09:06, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

No - I think that's where some of the confusion lies... I'm pretty certain that at first the 1988 remix was classed as a separate single, and sales for both the 1983 and 1988 versions were only combined later.

Just been looking at the list of 80s best-sellers, which I assume is the reason you were asking for "Blue Monday"'s date: of course, the afternoon show (actually, the lunchtime show) wasn't always Johnnie Walker's... by the late 70s Paul Burnett had taken over after Walker had quit to try his luck in America, and in the early 80s Gary Davies was at the helm. Richard3120 (talk) 09:30, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

If that list is to be believed then it was very close to 1M by the end of 1989 and probably still selling quite strongly. My guess would be early 90s. That 5 1/4 inch floppy disk sleeve though! So evocative. Btljs (talk) 10:40, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

I nedd to revisit that list and take out the sales figures, I'm sure they've come from UKMIX or Buzzjack and aren't official. There's a slight oddity in that the chart published in January 1990 had "Blue Monday" at 13, but the OCC list of the top 20 published in 2009 had it swapping places with "Eye of the Tiger" at number 12.

That was a great sleeve by Peter Savill... I'm not sure how true the story is that it was so expensive to produce, the single actually lost 5p for every copy sold... Richard3120 (talk) 11:12, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

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no ref no sales

@Unreal7: You know the rules - please put in the references when you put in the sales, including on the 'combined sales' chart. I know combined sales are pretty easy to come by but we need OCC, MW or some other published reliable source. I'm giving it a week from now before I revert. This page has always been very well sourced so we shouldn't let our guard down. Btljs (talk) 07:44, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

It was a grand total of weekly sales from UKChartsPlus and MW. Unreal7 (talk) 10:47, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Starships

Starships by Nicki Minaj has passed the one million mark in the UK to become the 166th song to do so (excluding streams). Please add it to the list.

http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/nicki-minajs-starships-becomes-latest-single-to-pass-a-million-sales-in-the-uk__15646/ Devin Levin (talk) 01:32, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Inconsistent Sorting

In the main list:

- Katy Perry has two entries, one sorted under "K", one under "P". - Lady Gaga has two entries, one sorted under "L", one under "G". - Kylie Minogue has two entries, one sorted under "K", one under "M".

DavidNorman99 (talk) 14:59, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Combined sales and streaming million sellers table

"Shape of You" has over a million combined sales if you count 100:1 for streaming, but from 2017 the charts use 150:1. I've seen at least one reference from Alan Jones at Musicweek to continuing to use 100:1 for total sales figures. We need to decide what to do with this list:

1. 1. Freeze it at the end of 2016 and start a new one from 2017 with 150:1 (don't know what will happen to songs which overlap the cut-off)

or

1. 2. Continue with it using 100:1 formula where references available.

or

1. 3. Scrap it entirely - if they're going to keep changing the ratio it's just way too complicated and we have separate sales and streaming lists

or

1. 4. Keep in same table and calculate using the current formula. BPI are adopting the 150:1 for Platinum etc. so we can used double platinum as before. There will have to be explicit references for the total combined figure NOT just a figure for streaming and a figure for sales UNLESS the song was released after beginning of 2017.

It's messy, but that is the nature of the way music charts are fudged together.Btljs (talk) 09:53, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Update: AJ in MW this week: "That brings cumulative sales of Shape Of You (including 516,190 from streams) to more than a million - 1,004,732 to be precise, using the new 1;150 streaming conversion rate, though an interrogation of the Official Charts Company database returns a figure of 1,262,827, as it continues to use the historic 1:100 streaming conversion rate for everything but the chart itself. So Shape Of You is approaching half a million (paid-for) sales, has just topped the million mark and has surpassed 1.25m, depending on how you look at it. "

So no help there. Btljs (talk) 06:40, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Another update: BPI clearly aren't using 150:1, but continue to use 100:1, deleting their earlier article. So if we go with BPI figures and explicit references, the list will continue to be consistent. Btljs (talk) 08:03, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

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OCC new million chart sales list

So, now we have this: http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/the-uks-official-chart-millionaires-revealed__20459/ - the most complete list of sales and streaming equivalent sales we've ever had from the OCC. How shall we include it on this page? My proposal would be to keep the sales only list (and keep updating sales when we get them) but replace the combined sales list with the new OCC list and put this at the top, as it is now 'official'. In terms of secondary sources, they nearly all quote combined sales and this will only be compounded by this new list. Time to face the fact that traditional sales (ie downloads and physical) are dying and will be preserved as a historical fact for the 2nd half of the 20th Century. Btljs (talk) 19:46, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

@Btljs: hi, hope you're keeping well. I think you're right - even future "sales" of "Rock Around the Clock" are going to be streaming units rather than any physical units or downloads. So yes, I agree that the sales only list should be included as an archive and updated as and when "sales only" figures are provided - which is going to happen with decreasing frequency from now on. But I'm happy to go with whatever the consensus is - you, Unreal7 and a couple of others do great work keeping this list up to date. Richard3120 (talk) 21:18, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

@Richard3120: Thanks - not been so active recently due to other commitments in the real world, but this kind of leaped out at me. @Unreal7: What do you think? Btljs (talk) 18:36, 21 September 2017 (UTC) And @A Thousand Doors:

Yeah I'm on board with that. We gotta make sure we quote both purchases and streams separately though. Unreal7 (talk) 20:25, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Also, three more million sellers appear to have been announced, despite no official announcements or articles from the OCC: Where Is the Love?, Make You Feel My Love and Fuck You. Unreal7 (talk) 23:45, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

LOL. Wonder why OCC didn't want to announce that! Btljs (talk) 07:40, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

@Btljs: unfortunate sequence of song titles, that... Richard3120 (talk) 01:09, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

@Richard3120:Sounds like a night out! Still, great to see a Dylan song in there. Btljs (talk) 08:37, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

I note that quite a few songs from the 1970s and 80s are starting to make the million-seller list with streams combined, and I suspect this trend will continue, but only for certain songs. I'm intrigued to see what happens with "Amazing Grace" by the Pipes and Drums of the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, for example – the UK's best-selling single of 1972, and according to chart enthusiasts its sales stopped only 10-20,000 short of a million... but you suspect that very few people will want to stream an 18th century hymn played on bagpipes, and therefore it may never reach the million mark. Another that might find it difficult is "We Don't Talk Anymore" by Cliff Richard – it's certainly sold well in excess of 900,000 copies, but his fans are ageing, and they must already have the song on several hits compilations, so a major boost via streaming seems unlikely without some sort of promotion such as the song's use in an advert. Richard3120 (talk) 22:44, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

@Richard3120:Well, even Cliff will (probably) die one day, then it might. I hope that OCC will update the list when new songs pass the threshold. I also wonder what the song that finally ousts Candle will be - if streaming continues to grow, it is only a matter of time. Btljs (talk) 10:47, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

"Bohemian Rhapsody"? And yes, Cliff *may* die one day... but I'm not certain any of us will still be alive when it happens. Richard3120 (talk) 16:28, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

I've added all the missing combined sales million sellers from the OCC list. The names all need sorting out and they aren't in date order, but we're getting there. Any help appreciated. Btljs (talk) 09:16, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

The OCC announced a while ago that "Grenade" had sold 1 million, but I couldn't be bothered adding it to the pure sales list as the entire article is now sourced by that September article. Unreal7 (talk) 12:47, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Last physical million seller

I think this is worth noting: “Is This The Way to Amarillo” was in all likelihood the last single to sell a million copies on a physical format, ie the CD. The date it went Platinum is just over a week before downloads were included, and “Amarillo” was #1 on the first chart with combined sales. I’ve asked the OCC - they didn’t reply when I emailed them a few years ago but I’ve just tried again. I think the single was on nearly a million before downloads were incorporated. It therefore seems likely that physical sales of the CD pushed it past the million mark. As a charity release, it may have been bigger as a physical release, and download sales might have been small in those days, although I think it did top that chart. TrottieTrue (talk) 02:46, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

The problem is "in all likelihood" isn't enough - we'll need confirmation from the OCC or another reliable source to be able to add that information. Richard3120 (talk) 22:42, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

That’s why I haven’t added the information yet. If I do hear back I’ll note it here. But if it’s in an email I’ll probably need to forward that to a Wikipedia moderator as verification. Maybe the OCC wouldn’t want to publicise the last physical million seller. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TrottieTrue (talk • contribs) 03:34, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Good luck with your e-mail, but several of us Wikipedia editors will tell you from experience that the OCC and other chart compilers/certification bodies around the world rarely answer e-mails unless it's about something they want to publicise. Richard3120 (talk) 04:31, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

I’m sure you’re right, since they ignored me the first time two years ago. However, I was in luck this time, as the website editor replied yesterday confirming I was right about it being Peter Kay. I’ve forwarded the email to the Wikipedia volunteer response team so it can be cited in the article. TrottieTrue (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:19, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I appreciate your diligence, but I'm sorry to report as I mentioned in ticket:2018021310001277 that an email sent to OTRS does not meet our requirements for a reliable source. Email sent to OTRS can be used for licensing of images but not referencing of facts.--S Philbrick(Talk) 23:54, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

It's certainly been used in the past: a pity that original research has no place on this site. TrottieTrue (talk) 02:23, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Also, it’s acknowledged elsewhere that “I Gotta Feeling” was the first digital single to sell a million copies, a fact which could be added without any citation problems. TrottieTrue (talk) 03:13, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Article is inherently flawed

From Chartwatch November 2000 (Copyright Neil Rawlings): (emphasis is mine in article)

"Sales of records vary so much from year to year and from month to month depending upon factors such as economic conditions and Christmas. This is also true of sales awards. There is a lot of misunderstanding about sales awards. To begin with, these are not “awards” in the sense that some overseeing authority hands them out, but are prizes that have to be claimed. In other words, it isn’t that the British Phonographic Industry (BPI) is constantly monitoring record sales to make the awards, but that individual record companies have to go to the BPI with lists of sales in hand and claim the awards. Some record companies, especially the independents, don’t like the idea of BPI officials scrutinizing their account books and never make the claim. So there will always be records that should have received awards but never have.

The second point is that the awards are made for shipments not sales. The accounts that record companies keep are for supplies to the shops, and the number of records manufactured, not the number sold. No-one keeps track of total sales, though the chart compilers Millward Brown monitor sales because the chart is compiled from a panel of record shops, that is it’s a representative sample (between a sixth and a seventh of all shops). So a record may get a sales award even though a proportion of records remain unsold on shops and eventually hit the bargain bins or are returned to the record company on a sale-or-return basis. In truth, no record company is going to press a quarter of a million records unless two hundred thousand or more have been sold; it is unusual for a no.1 record to exceed 150,000 sales in a week, after all." 197.87.63.102 (talk) 19:54, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Congratulations by Cliff Richard

[2] Page 6, under Disc news In Brief. 197.87.143.177 (talk) 15:29, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

I have found a page from 1974. It is at remarkably different to this article.

Here it is...[3] 197.87.135.139 (talk) 15:31, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

This list is clearly absolute garbage, written by someone who has no idea what he/she is talking about. It's anonymous, and with absolutely no sources for where the information has come from – just because it's printed in a reputable trade paper does not mean that this information is believable. No single from 1974 sold a million copies, not then, and has not in the 50 years since, I believe. I'm very confident that if you directly asked RAK Records if the year's no. 1, "Tiger Feet", has sold a million in the UK, they would immediately say no. And if someone can prove to me that "Poppa Joe" by Sweet – a single that didn't even make the top ten in the UK – sold a million copies in the UK in 1973, I will genuinely give them £1000, no questions asked. Richard3120 (talk) 21:19, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Starting in the early 60s this was posted every year, with updates. It's not just a random 1974 article. S, here a few..

1961[4] 1962[5] 1963[6] 1964[7] 1966[8] 1967[9] 1968[10] 1969[11] 1970[12] 1974[13] 1975[14]

The "missing" ones are because I never found the relevant links, not because they don't exist...

But, it appears that as "Golden Disk" meant "one million sales", that Cashbox may have confused BPI Gold Records(500 000) with earlier Gold Record Awards. if we just use the 1970 page... [15] that these are indeed all Million Sellers. And that list differs significantly from the so-called "official list". Intriguingly, there are records such as "Long haired Lover From Liverpool" which are "officially" recognised, but are absent from the Cashbox List. So, did Little Jimmy sell a million copies? I do not believe so. Cashbox says NO, yet there it is on the "official list"...

None of this explains why you prefer to believe an anonymous and unsourced list in a foreign publication over the figures given by the actual company in charge of tracking dales data. The fact that Cash Box is an RS does NOT mean they are the authority on million sellers in the UK. The BPI is also an RS, so in the case of two contradictory lists of million sellers we should akways go with the one that is more up-to-date and actually oversees the data, and thats the BPI in both cases. Richard3120 (talk) 09:48, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

But WHEN did BPI start tracking the data? The BPI didn't even exist until the 70s. As we see, Cashbox published an updated list every year, beginning in (it appears) 1961. Thus, they were getting data at the time, and updating it accordingly. Didn't the BPI only start keeping track from c1994? So, does it make more sense to go with Reliable contemporaneous information, or an organisation that didn't even exist at the time making proclamations decades after the event?

Further, that "OCC" list goes into almost derangement syndrome over DISC awarding The Archies a Gold Record for Sugar, Sugar. Except...DISC did no such thing. True, The Archies received a Gold Record for Sugar, Sugar...but not from DISC. So, the second anything says "DISC awarded a Gold Record...", you know that it's false. And that was used as a Reliable Source! In fact, until very recently, the article stated that DISC awarded Gold Records from 1959 to 1973! Another complete falsehood. Even that 2012 "OCC Million Sellers" book states that those Gold Records were awarded by artists' record labels. And, once we throw that article from the old davemcaleer website in the bin where it belongs, the entire issue looks completely different.

The important thing is WHERE they were getting their data from... as the Cash Box articles are completely unsourced, they could have been getting their data from a guy in the pub, for all we know. Without any sources, the Cash Box lists are completely useless. The fact that they have included singles which I would bet my house that have not even sold half a million copies, let alone a million, makes them totally unbelievable in my opinion.

The OCC/BPI would have had access to the old BMRB sales diaries, so they would have been able to retrospectively extrapolate approximate sales figures... I would imagine this is how they recently worked out that the best-selling single of 1981 was in fact "Don't You Want Me", rather than "Tainted Love" as believed for 40 years. Richard3120 (talk) 14:28, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

:: I have removed the Cashbox link. However, as demonstrated repeatedly, DISC never awarded Gold Records. Record labels awarded Gold Records. And not all of those were for one million copies sold in the UK. The first time a properly audited million seller occurred was likely I Love You Love Me by the BPI in 73. (In fact, I remember hearing some years back that someone had investigated the Beatles UK million sellers of the 60s, and found that their sales were all inflated. I'll need to find his name and the valid reference...)

Then there's this. Someone c&p'd this elsewhere/ We would need to see the actual issue, but...

This is the start of an article, from November 2000 Chartwatch. I c&p exactly.\..

Chartwatch November 2000 (Copyright Neil Rawlings)

"Sales of records vary so much from year to year and from month to month depending upon factors such as economic conditions and Christmas. This is also true of sales awards.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about sales awards. To begin with, these are not “awards” in the sense that some overseeing authority hands them out, but are prizes that have to be claimed. In other words, it isn’t that the British Phonographic Industry (BPI) is constantly monitoring record sales to make the awards, but that individual record companies have to go to the BPI with lists of sales in hand and claim the awards. Some record companies, especially the independents, don’t like the idea of BPI officials scrutinizing their account books and never make the claim. So there will always be records that should have received awards but never have.

The second point is that the awards are made for shipments not sales. The accounts that record companies keep are for supplies to the shops, and the number of records manufactured, not the number sold. No-one keeps track of total sales, though the chart compilers Millward Brown monitor sales because the chart is compiled from a panel of record shops, that is it’s a representative sample (between a sixth and a seventh of all shops). So a record may get a sales award even though a proportion of records remain unsold on shops and eventually hit the bargain bins or are returned to the record company on a sale-or-return basis. In truth, no record company is going to press a quarter of a million records unless two hundred thousand or more have been sold; it is unusual for a no.1 record to exceed 150,000 sales in a week, after all.

This is all correct... "I Love You Love Me Love" was indeed the first single to be properly certified platinum in the UK. The (true) statement "it is unusual for a no.1 record to exceed 150,000 sales in a week" is what makes me sceptical about the OCC saying that "Don't You Want Me" was the biggest seller of 1981 – it was only on sale for the last four weeks of the year, but allegedly sold over a million by 31 December, which means it must have sold between 300,000 and 350,000 copies per week for the three consecutive weeks it was at no. 1... these are sales figures not seen outside of an "event record" like "Do They Know It's Christmas?" or "Candle in the Wind '97". It also doesn't explain why they have recently reduced the sales of singles from 1983 by around a third – the year's best-seller "Karma Chameleon" was reported in both the UK music press and in Billboard to have passed one million sales in October 1983. But now the OCC say it had only sold 955,000 by the end of the year, more than two months later. 1983 was Gallup's first year overseeing the charts, and I can believe that it has now been found that their panel sales overestimated the total sales. But seeing as the single had been certified platinum in October, I don't understand how sales could be 30% or more lower than the audited shipments. I'm not saying the OCC is wrong or don't know what they are doing, I'd just like some explanation for these two events, because I can't make the figures add up. Richard3120 (talk) 18:44, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

If record companies could buy chart positions, could they not also buy certifications? It has been demonstrated (such as in Black Vinyl White Powder) that until the 90s "chart hyping" was an accepted part of the music business. It is not inconceivable that records may have been "certified" for sales larger than truly existed at the time of "certification".

Chart fixing was definitely a thing. But this wasn't just one single... it appears that every song from that year has had their sales figures reduced by the same amount. So it would have to have been every record company, all choosing to exaggerate their sales by the same amount. And it definitely wasn't for the purpose of "over-certification", as songs like "Uptown Girl" and "Red Red Wine" were already certified gold for 500,000 sales, and their new figures are still above that level, so it would have made no difference. Richard3120 (talk) 21:38, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Who knows? Maybe they fed data into a computer, and the computer programme was faulty? Like when Manuel and the Music of the Mountains was Number 1. I guess we can't always believe in bad intent when mistakes can be the explanation.

DISC GOLD Records

Did these actually exist? Gold Record awards were presented to artists/groups for sales of 1 million. But were these actually DISC Gold Records? Or in-house Gold Records that were presented to artists by their record labels, and DISC just happened to report on them? [16] On the back page, Jimmy Savile presents Elvis Presley with two UK Record Awards for sales of "It's Now Or Never". ONE is the DISC Silver Record. The other is a Gold Record. The Gold Record does not have the distinctive pattern that all DISC Record Awards have.

[17].On page 6 we see that "Stranger on the Shore" by Acker Bilk is receiving a Gold Record...for 1 million worldwide sales.

[18] Page 10 reveals the Rules of the scheme. NOTHING about Gold Records.

[19] page 5 congratulates the Tremeloes being awarded a Gold Record for "Silence is Golden" achieving 1 million worldwide sales.

It's little wonder then that "Information about when a record was classified Gold by Disc is not well documented". Because no record ever was. And blaming DISC for The Archies makes no sense. DISC merely reported on it. [20] Here are 6 Gold Records for "Sugar, Sugar". The English one is clearly NOT a DISC Record Award. (I also remember seeing that one of Engelbert Humperdinck' Gold Records was an in-house Gold Record for 1 million worldwide sales. I'll try and find the link.) (And, according to "The Ultimate Cliff" by Peter Lewry and Nigel Goodall, all four of Cliff Richard's Gold Records, Living Doll, The Young Ones, The Next Time and Congratulations were in-house EMI Awards.) So... DISC awarded SILVER Records for records that could reliably be demonstrated to have sold 250 000 copies in the United Kingdom. British record labels also independently awarded Gold Records for sales of 1 million copies, including 1 million worldwide sales. These were NOT DISC awards. Although DISC(and other publications such as The New Musical Express) did report these non-DISC Gold Record awards. 197.87.135.139 (talk) 15:29, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

And just to recap, on the other discussion pages it was unambiguously demonstrated that:

1) DISC began certifying SILVER records as of March 1959. Only records released on or after 1 March 1959 were eligible.

2) The first ever record presented with a DISC Silver Record was Roulette by Russ Conway. Side Saddle was never certified Silver by DISC, nor could it ever be, as it was released prior to 1 March 1959.

3) No album was ever presented with a Silver Record by DISC. Victor Silvester, Russ Conway, Elvis Presley, The Beatles and Uriah Heep were all awarded Silver Records by their respective record companies. While DISC reported on all of these, none of them were actually DISC Silver Records.

4) There is NO indication that DISC ever awarded Gold Records. Multiple artists were presented with Gold Records during 1959-1973. And not all of them for the same sales figures. While DISC(and indeed other publications, eg. the New Musical Express) reported these Gold Record presentations... these were in-house Gold Records presented to the artists and groups by their record labels. There was no such thing as a DISC Gold Record Award. DISC presented SILVER Record Awards, NOT Gold Record Awards. When it came to Gold Record Awards DISC only reported on others awarding them out, they never awarded them themselves.

5) Even as of November 2000, the BPI did not themselves keep track of exact over-the-counter music sales. Rather, at least as late as November 2000, BPI certifications were awarded for copies manufactured and sold to shops, NOT for actual sales. This of course means that anyone claiming to know exact over-the-counter sales figures of records released years before the BPI had even been formed is frankly absurd. All that was available to audit sales figures was records manufactured and sold to shops. In other words, the exact same method that the BPI used for at least the first 30 years of their existence.

New edits

1) Cashbox is a RS.

2) The Murrells book, a 1985 updated edition of a 1974 book, says nothing about units shipped. It merely states that "Sugar, Sugar" sold a million copies in the UK. It is deceptive to "quote" something that differs significantly from what was actually written/published.

3)Let me repeat...DISC never awarded a single DISC Gold Record. Ever. DISC awarded SILVER Records for sales of 1/4 million. But ALL Gold Records awarded in the UK prior to the BPI were in-house record label awards. DISC, being music journalists, reported on the presentation of these Gold Record awards. But they did not themselves award them. The Gold Record awarded to "Sugar, Sugar" was not a DISC Record award.

4) Not all Gold Records were for 1 million UK sales. As just one example of many, Acker Bilk's "Stranger on the Shore" Gold Record award was for 1 million COMBINED BRITSH AND AMERICAN SALES [21]. (Page 6).

5)That "Alan Smith" article on DISC Record awards has been thoroughly exposed as being full of absurd falsehoods. And, as Dave McAleer had no problem putting that horrendous article on the website bearing McAleer's name, McAleer's own articles/books become tainted by association. 197.87.135.139 (talk) 09:09, 8 May 2024 (UTC)