Talk:List of invasions in the 21st century
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Definition of "invasion"
[edit]I've already removed one example, but as I look through this list I'm seeing some others that I question, and so rather than continue removing them I thought I would open this discussion:
- Siege of Babanusa - I'm not convinced that a siege constitutes an invasion, or that it is described as such in reliable sources
- 2023 Belgorod Oblast incursions - I'm not convinced that a cross-border raid constitutes an invasion, or that it is described as such in reliable sources
- 2023 Afghanistan–Iran clash - I'm not convinced that a border clash constitutes an invasion, or that it is described as such in reliable sources
I suggest that this list is limited to events that sources consistently describe as invasions. BilledMammal (talk) 18:28, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- @WeatherWriter: Thank you! Sorry for asking you to cut it down in this way, I know that removed a lot of hard work you did. BilledMammal (talk) 18:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- No problem. There was another discussion on the main list of invasions article as well. People are about to realize how dumb the cut-down is going to be. To properly conform it to specs, there is going to be a complete rewrite for some of the sections. Technically, the United States invasion of Afghanistan article doesn’t even have a RS mentioning it as an invasion and will be removed until the point where someone adds RS saying it is an invasion. Absolute blast and laughs honestly. Wikipedia-article titled invasion not on the list, due to lack of sources in the actual article XD. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 18:48, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- The Invasion of Afghanistan certainly belongs; I'll take a look at the discussion on the main page. BilledMammal (talk) 18:51, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oh I whole heartedly agree. However, not a single source in that article actually calls it an invasion, therefore, per Wikipedia no OR policy, it was removed until someone readds it with a source. I’ll have a fun field-day hunting for sources for the stuff I removed. 80% of it will easily be added back. The removal was just a quick control+f search through the sources and the ones without a source with “invasion” in the title was removed. That fact though just made me laugh. Wikipedia doesn’t actually, as of this message, have a source on that article that has “invasion” in the title, yet Wikipedia calls it an invasion. Obviously it is an invasion and everything that was on there by definition was an invasion. But lack of sources mean removal. Again, 80% of what I just removed will be re-added once I actually do Google searches to find a source that somehow had not been cited in the overall invasion article. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 18:54, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- would this work as a ref?
- https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/afghanistan-war-how-did-911-lead-to-a-20-year-war#:~:text=View%20video%20transcript-,In%202001%20an%20International%20Coalition%20led%20by%20the%20USA%20invaded,NATO%20troops%20on%20the%20ground.
- or
- https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0262728020964609 132.181.231.127 (talk) 01:41, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oh I whole heartedly agree. However, not a single source in that article actually calls it an invasion, therefore, per Wikipedia no OR policy, it was removed until someone readds it with a source. I’ll have a fun field-day hunting for sources for the stuff I removed. 80% of it will easily be added back. The removal was just a quick control+f search through the sources and the ones without a source with “invasion” in the title was removed. That fact though just made me laugh. Wikipedia doesn’t actually, as of this message, have a source on that article that has “invasion” in the title, yet Wikipedia calls it an invasion. Obviously it is an invasion and everything that was on there by definition was an invasion. But lack of sources mean removal. Again, 80% of what I just removed will be re-added once I actually do Google searches to find a source that somehow had not been cited in the overall invasion article. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 18:54, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- The Invasion of Afghanistan certainly belongs; I'll take a look at the discussion on the main page. BilledMammal (talk) 18:51, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- No problem. There was another discussion on the main list of invasions article as well. People are about to realize how dumb the cut-down is going to be. To properly conform it to specs, there is going to be a complete rewrite for some of the sections. Technically, the United States invasion of Afghanistan article doesn’t even have a RS mentioning it as an invasion and will be removed until the point where someone adds RS saying it is an invasion. Absolute blast and laughs honestly. Wikipedia-article titled invasion not on the list, due to lack of sources in the actual article XD. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 18:48, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
Ordering
[edit]@WeatherWriter why is the list in reverse chronological order? Isn’t that textbook WP:RECENTISM?
Cheers, RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 00:07, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
- That is how it was set up on the parent article, list of invasions. If reverse chronological order is truly a problem, the whole list (this and parent article) needs to be entirely flipped, which is a ton of additional work. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 00:21, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
Invasion of Syria to be added?
[edit]I mean wasn't it invaded by Turkey and US-led coalition? Their presence in Syria was not agreed upon by the standing Syrian government as far as I understand. Gorgedweller (talk) 08:43, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Gorgedweller:, Yep! Syria was invaded 3 times actually in the 21st century. However, that statement is also purely original research as not a single secondary reliable source states it was an "invasion". Over on Talk:List of invasions, there was a huge discussion regarding it. Based on pure original research and what the true definition of an "invasion" is, this version of the list/article is the actual true list of invasions in the 21st century. However, Wikipedia has a policy of verifiability, not truth (VNT), which states that everything must be sourced by a secondary source. Meaning, definitions and reality do not matter on Wikipedia. Only what other sources say. Based on secondary sources, only 11 events have been described as an "invasion" in the 21st century, and Turkey's invasion of Syria is not one of them. I wrote up a case-study essay (WP:VNTIA) where community consensus firmly held-up the VNT policy and why there is a known factual-inaccuracy on the Tornadoes of 2022 article, which everyone acknowledged was factually wrong, but that the factual inaccuracy did not have a secondary source supporting it. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 08:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
2006 invasion of Lebanon
[edit]Since the most recent invasion of Lebanon has been added, wouldn't it be right to add the 2006 invasion as well? I am sure there are more then enough sources describing the events of 2006 as an invasion. Gorgedweller (talk) 08:52, 1 October 2024 (UTC)