Talk:List of hot dogs

This is a list of ingredients, not outgredients

This list serves as a simple reference as to what constitutes the basic preparation of various styles of “hot dog”-style sausages. As such, entries shall contain only a listing of the ingredients and preparation technique necessary to assemble a dish of the indicated variety.

Entries shall not contain “outgredients,” or elements proscribed as not part of a given recipe. If one item is to be explicitly listed as forbidden in a recipe, then logically all ingredients not necessary to the recipe must be listed as well. This would of course be absurd and would result in an impossibly large article of infinite length.

If a “forbidden” ingredient is added to a recipe in the course of its preparation, the dish does not intrinsically cease to be. It merely becomes <dish name> with <forbidden ingredient>.

I thank you for your kind attention and, of course, welcome your comments on this matter.

🆃🆁🆂™ 02:13, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Various dishes have various ingredients, and that's fine. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:00, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your recent flurry of activity on this article. Spectacular work - your improvements to the written copy and references are top notch, and the new table formatting is fantastic. 🆃🆁🆂™ 19:28, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks so much @Trs9k! I do intend to take this to WP:Featured list candidates eventually, but it's still a work in progress, so there's more to come. Let me know if there's anything that can be improved upon, or give it a go yourself. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:44, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

The list says that a Chicago-style hot dog does not have ketchup on it. This "outgredient" should in fact be listed in the entry, because (1) ketchup is a very common topping for hot dogs and (2) a number of sources specifically state that a proper Chicago-style hot dog must exclude this otherwise popular condiment. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 18:16, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Ohhh that's what's meant, I didn't get that. Anyways, I agree with you @Mudwater. If it's a defining characteristic then it should be noted as such. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

OH. I didn't get it either. Yes, totally think we could mention Chicago hot dogs don't typically include ketchup, which in other areas is a completely acceptable topping. Valereee (talk) 22:02, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Does your salad dog cease to be a “Chicago dog” the instant a drop of ketchup touches it? No, it simply becomes a “Chicago dog with ketchup,” as would be the case with any other recipe, hot dog or otherwise. It is the things that go into a recipe which define the finished dish, and once a dish has been prepared, anything added after the fact does not intrinsically redefine the preparation itself. 🆃🆁🆂™ 19:23, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, not sure what content change you're trying to argue for? Valereee (talk) 19:40, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I think maybe you're saying that we don't need to mention ingredients that aren't typical for a particular style? I kind of feel like that's a case by case. Ketchup is a very typical ingredient for a hotdog, but for a Chicago hot dog, definitely not. I don't see any reason not to include that info, as it's useful for readers? Valereee (talk) 19:44, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I think it depends on how explicit some of the sources are about "not x ingredient". I'm sure there are situations in which the addition of an ingredient makes it no longer categorized as that type of food. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:47, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Ketchup, for instance, is a very common topping, but not on a Chicago dog. So, yeah, we could mention that. The fact they also don't typically include baba ghanoush, not so much. Valereee (talk) 19:49, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

@Valereee, @Mudwater, @Trs9k: I've added a number of reliable sources since I do think it may be a contested fact by some. Please tell me if you think the add-on sentence of "A traditional Chicago-style hot dog does not include ketchup." could be improved upon. I kind of want to stress the fact it shouldn't have ketchup, since the 15+ pieces of RS I could find about it are pretty passionate about that point of view, but I think that's a fairly neutral way to put it with enough RS to back it up. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:22, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Looks good to me. I definitely do think we need to mention not ketchup; as you say, the RS are very definite about this. I'm literally not sure I've ever read an article about Chicago dogs that didn't mention that ketchup was not okay. Valereee (talk) 13:38, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, looks good. The additional references are a plus. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 01:39, 21 August 2024 (UTC)