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Community?

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I suspect that people have been adding place names to this page with no justification?

Welsh communities are defined at Community (Wales), i.e. communities are NOT just 'places where people live' but places well-defined by the Local Government Act 1972 and with elected councils.

A lot of checking is needed here. -- Maelor  15:55, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So this list has been redefined to only be a list of communities with community councils? That's not what the title of the page and blurb at the beginning says. Owain (talk) 16:09, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've no problem either way as long as we all agree on the definition of "community".
This text appears on Torfaen Council's website:
"There are six Town and Community Councils located in Torfaen. These are Blaenavon, Croesyceiliog & Llanyrafon, Cwmbran, Henllys, Ponthir and Pontypool."
so I removed the surplus entries from the Wiki article. I did this wherever a local authority website defined its "communities". I accept that the local government act seems to have a loophole where anyone can establish their own "community meetings" (which appear to have no authority?) but we need to avoid is anyone simply adding "the place where I live" to the list! There were several places listed on the page which are no more than very small hamlets. If done this way the list could prove to be endless.
There also seems to be some confusion in some peoples minds between 'communities' and 'wards'.
I think it would make more sense to list "Communities with Councils" on this page and to list "communities" within these communities on individual community pages pages???
Having said that, I was only tidying up the page format originally and didn't intend doing any more work on it. So if you want to make changes, go ahead. -- Maelor  20:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think you have missed the point. Even urban areas are subdivided into communities, but you have removed them and only left behind the ones with councils. For example, Newport has Allt-yr-yn, Alway, Beechwood, Bettws, Bishton, Caerleon, Coedkernew, Gaer, Goldcliff, Graig, Langstone, Liswerry, Llanvaches, Llanwern, Malpas, Marshfield, Michaelstone-y-Fedw, Nash, Penhow, Pillgwenlly, Redwick, Ringland, Rogerstone, Shaftesbury, St. Julians, Stow Hill, Tredegar Park, Victoria and Wentloog. But you edited that away leaving only:, Bishton, Coedkernew, Goldcliff, Graig, Langstone, Llanvaches, Llanwern, Marshfield, Michaelstone-y-Fedw, Nash, Penhow, Redwick, Rogerstone and Wentloog - i.e. only those communities that have established councils. This fundamentally breaks the concept of this page, which was supposed to be a definitive list of communities. Owain (talk) 13:20, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think you are missing my point! Unless you have a tight definition of what a 'community' is (as you have for Unitary Authorities, etc., with well-defined boundaries) you are opening the floodgates to 'Everyman and his dog', living in the middle of nowhere, to define, unilaterally, his house and the telephone kiosk next door, as a community. So I do not believe that it is possible to produce a 'definitive list' without a logical and legal definition of 'community', i.e. based on Community Councils. I see little point in producing a lengthy list of spurious 'communities' unless there is an article linked to each item in that list and I suspect that many such articles could never be more that one line stubs? I suspect the sensible solution would be to have two lists, the second being 'List of Communities in Wales with Community Councils'? -- Maelor  12:55, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You STILL don't get it do you? There IS a tight definition of what a 'community' is. Under the Local Government Act 1972 it is just the name used for a Parish in Wales. Therefore it IS possible to produce a 'definitive list' because we DO have a logical and legal definition of 'community'. This is exactly what we had before, before you started deleting them all! See [1] and please repair this list. If you like you can have bold for cities, normal font for communities with a council and italics for communities without a council. Owain (talk) 16:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Owain you are getting paranoid again! I said at the beginning of March that I have no further interest in these articles and have not edited any of them since (and have no intention of doing so!!! The whole exercise is becoming far too nerdy for me!). My original edits were in line with the 'well-defined' definition of Welsh communities found in the The Welsh Acadamys "'Encyclopaedia of Wales", where detailed articles on each authority in Wales are accompanied my a map showing every community within that authority. These were very different 'communities' from those which were appearing on Wikipedia when I started editing the page. The Encyclopaedia version does (in the main) appear to match the lists you supplied from the ONS. My original edits were to remove any places which were not on this list. -- Maelor  12:54, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This edit removed those communities in Newport that are perfectly valid (and on the ONS list). You reduced it to simply those that have councils. Do you want me to restore them? Owain (talk) 16:08, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As I said on 4 March "if you want to make changes, go ahead". Perhaps an email to the Newport web site, pointing out the ambiguity of the information on their site, might also prove useful. The lists provided by the ONS do contain one glaring error! I don't believe that there is a community in Carmarthenshire with the name of "Cyngor Bro Dyffryn Cennen"! Obviously the "Cyngor Bro" slipped in by mistake. -- Maelor  10:21, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If I can be of help here! Communities in Wales have been established by local government legislation. In general they have community councils established to represent them, though a few may have only a community meeting, as with civil parishes in England. In the major urban authorities (such as Cardiff, Newport, Swansea, and Merthyr Tydfil), community councils have not been established for many of the legally defined communities. However, the communities still exist, and are recognised as such in census reports. Just to complicate matters further, at least one community (in Vale of Glamorgan) has voted to abolish its community council. However, the community is still recognised even though it has no representative body. It can be extremely difficult to locate a list of legally established communities (certainly local authority websites are notoriously unreliable, as they are usually trying to offer a means for residents to contact community council clerks). Good sources include the Boundary Commission for Wales and the Census 2001 website (but bear in mind, new communities may have been created, or communities may have been merged since 2001). If I ever finish working on the List of civil parishes in England, I will have a look at these lists and see what I can do. Skinsmoke (talk) 23:37, 1 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Little black numbers

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What do the little black numbers represent next to each name? Shouldn't that be explained somewhere?! Sionk (talk) 16:23, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, almost four years later, still not clear to me either. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:42, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Sionk and Martinevans123: They're the numbers of the entries in the Notes section. So under Blaenau Gwent we have
and under Notes, entry no. 8 says
8. Formerly Abertillery Urban District [1]

References

  1. ^ A Vision of Britain Through Time : Abertillery Urban District[permanent dead link‍] Retrieved 20 December 2009
It's a high-maintenance way of doing it, there are better ways and there are much better ways. Personally I would use the {{efn}} system, under which the Notes section contains only the {{notelist|25em}} template, and in the Blaenau Gwent section we would put
* [[Abertillery]] {{efn|Formerly [[Abertillery|Abertillery Urban District]] <ref>[http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/relationships.jsp?u_id=10113611 A Vision of Britain Through Time : ''Abertillery Urban District'']{{dead link|date=September 2017 |bot=InternetArchiveBot |fix-attempted=yes }} Retrieved 20 December 2009</ref>}}
--Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:49, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I think an explanation, at the top of the article, might help the reader considerably. Unless your very good suggested improvements could be accomplished quickly. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:54, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, I eventually worked it out, but it was a headache adding/removing communities (as they changed) and making sure the correct footnote was retained for the correct entry. There was a tendency for others to update things without changing/removing the footnote. Sionk (talk) 22:04, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Sionk and Martinevans123: This is  Done now. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:24, 19 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well done, User:Redrose64. Kathryn also says thanks!! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:39, 19 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Accuracy? Sources?

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Having come across this page on the Merthyr Tydfil County Borough website which says there is only one Community Council (Bedlinog) in the borough, I'm having my doubts about the accuracy of these lists (which, for this example, say there are 12 communities in Merthyr Borough). The Vision of Britain links don't seem to point to information about communities, so will either need to be updated or amended. Any suggestions? Sionk (talk) 16:44, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I think I've answered my own question - not all connumities elect a council. Fair enough. But the inline citations are still a mess. Sionk (talk) 16:57, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The whole of Wales is divided into communities, even the towns and cities. Go to Election Maps, zoom in to some part of Wales that you're interested in, and in the menu on the left select "Unitary Authorities", then "Civil Parishes or Communities". Then at the top, enable both of the "Show names" options. Using this method, I have found twelve: Bedlinog, Cyfarthfa, Dowlais, Gurnos, Merthyr Vale, Pant, Park, Penydarren, Town, Treharris, Troed-y-Rhiw and Vaynor. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:21, 18 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's a very handy resource, thanks. If it isn't linked in the article it certainly should be. Yes, there are 12 communities in Merthyr Borough, but only one has a community council. Sionk (talk) 21:32, 18 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Handy resource, yes; but I don't know if it qualifies under WP:EL, since I don't know of a way of going straight in with certain characteristics already set, such as a pair of coordinates to centre at, a zoom level, or community boundaries switched on. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:29, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Actually it is already under External links. Sionk (talk) 17:54, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes it is - with a different URL, probably why I didn't notice it. It was added three days before I registered so as far as I'm concerned, it's always been there. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:12, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Communities (Wales) and former parishes

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My interest is historical geography and I am currently working on the rural areas of the old Welsh counties and the newer principal areas. Until 1974 the smallest administrative area was a civil parish; now it is a community. In rural areas many communities combined several adjacent parishes, but I can find no list either inside or outside Wikipedia giving this information. There is a list tying communities back to the rural districts, but rural districts were usually separated into a number of communities. In some cases the author of an individual page describing a parish may mention the name of the present community, but the reader cannot depend on all page authors to do so.

In addition, many pages deal with individual towns, villages and hamlets, but very few consider the whole of a parish. Yet the parish was the administrative area, not just the most densely populated part of it.

Is there any possibilty of providing this type of information so that family historians and genealogists from outside Wales can follow their distant cousins forward from 1974?

--Oldontarian (talk) 16:36, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Surely the church parishes are of more use to genealogists than civil parishes? Websites like Genuki have good info about church parishes. Sionk (talk) 18:56, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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