Talk:List of blue-eyed soul artists

Three Dog Night

Per WP:BURDEN, when another editor challenges your addition because of lack of sourcing, it is the editor inserting the material that is responsible for finding a source and adding the source to the article. Do not restore unsourced material to articles after it has been challenged. In this case, I'll dredge the damn source up myself to avoid edit warring, but do not repeat this behaviour in the future: when another editor removes material you had added, don't just put it back because you don't think it's your job to provide sources. It is always the inserting editor's job to locate and provide the source.—Kww(talk) 03:07, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I've just searched, and I can't find a reliable source that describes them as "blue-eyed soul". CDUniverse.com provides user reviews that describe them that way, but they don't pass WP:RS. Amazon provides user reviews that describe them that way, but we can't use user reviews on Amazon as sources. There are a lot of Wikipedia mirrors that describe them that way, but we can't use Wikipedia or Wikipedia mirrors as sources. There are a lot of blogs that describe them that way, but we can't use blogs as sources. There are a lot of fan-sites that describe them that way, but we can't use fan-sites as sources. I'll remove them from the list Monday morning if you haven't located a reliable source by then.—Kww(talk) 03:17, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

All I am trying to do is make Wikipedia internally consistent. If the Three Dog Night entry lists them as Blue-eyed Soul, they should be on this list. Why would you delete them here but not remove that reference from the other article? Also, why have you not deleted all of the other unsourced artists? Thirdly, what would you consider a "reliable" source? Googling "Three Dog Night" and "Blue-eyed Soul" together gives you over 77,000 results - are none of them up to your standards? --Freshmutt (talk) 11:36, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Additions and subtractions

Added "The O-kaysions" a white pop/r&b group who had a top ten r&b hit in 1967 with "Girlwatcher." Added Wild Cherry who won Grammies in the R&B category in 1976 (also no. 1 R&B that year with Play That Funky Music). Removed Glenn Lewis because he's Afro-Canadian. Also removed Hernando's Hideaway - I don't see any evidence that this recording artist/group exists or they have made any major impact. The only information I have is the sample of the song, "Hernando's Hideaway" used by the R&B singer, Debelah Morgan in 2000 for "Dance With Me." I am probably going to put some tags on the top - because this list is somewhat questionable. I might look at this list periodically and do some research to clean it up as well.

04:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Eddie Hinton

Removed Eddie Hinton... He was never considered a true performer; he was a songwriter/guitarist for R&B sessions in the South. He may have released an album or albums in the past - but generally most of his impact was through his songwriting and his session work. He was also misplaced in the 80's-present category - when the body of his work was in the 60s....

18:09, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Phil Collins/Hanson

Who put this in here... Checked the Wiki bio on both and it doesn't fit here... However Peter Gabriel did crossover a few times...but that's again subjective.

18:17, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Rolling Stones/Rod Stewart

I would say OK to this one - by the barest of margins... They both had their r&b crossover record and the record went no.1 pop because of it... The Stones with "Miss You" in 1978 and Rod Stewart's "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy" in 1979. The majority of their work never got played on soul stations - but these songs did.

18:28, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• Rod Stewart started his career in the 1960s singing soul and R&B. Thus the nickname "Rod the Mod." The Rolling Stones started their career in the 1960s playing R&B, but I'm not sure if they would be described as playin soul.Spylab (talk) 13:26, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

True in both senses... The Stones played mostly blues-based rock with some R&B covers (such as songs by Smokey Robinson). Rod did sing R&B - but the majority of his recording career was mostly blues-based material and standard rock and pop stuff.

20:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Moves

Moved Carola to new subcategory Finland.... Moved The Action (English), Average White Band (Scottish) and Pete Wingfield (English) to United Kingdom subcategory. Moved Dan Penn (success in the 60's) to the 60's and 70's subcategory.

18:45, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Correct

Madonna, Pink, Gwen Stefani, Fergie are indeed correct... All of them did crossover at one point or another especially Madonna; her first album was produced by Reggie Lucas best known for his work with Stephanie Mills. That first album, especially certain cuts sounds a lot like the Lucas/Mtume tandem with Mills in the early 80s. e.g. compare the beginning of the song "Borderline" with Stephanie Mills "Never Knew Love Like This Before" - a signature electric piano/organ? riff in the beginning.

18:42, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

McCartneys

With a lot of debate... I added Paul McCartney - he's the only Beatle to have a number one on the soul charts (The Girl Is Mine with Michael Jackson), and not only that he has crossed over a couple of times more because of his collaborations with Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson. This was only in the early 80's that he went through this supposed R&B phase.

Also added Jesse McCartney who is an actual blue eyed r&b singer/songwriter. Co-wrote the number one hit for Leona Lewis, "Bleeding Love." He would be a younger counterpart to Justin Timberlake as much as Chris Brown is to Usher.

18:42, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Soul Survivors

Added The Soul Survivors... Before Hall & Oates - they were the pre-eminent Philly blue-eyed soul act and were produced by Gamble & Huff. Best known for their one big hit, "Expressway To Your Heart" in 1968.

19:28, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Gino Vannelli/Robbie Nevil

Like some of these artists listed... They can work in multiple styles. Gino was added...he was the first Canadian artist to ever appear on "Soul Train" in 1975. The single "I Just Wanna Stop" crossed over into the R&B charts in addition of being a Top 5 hit back in 1978. He recorded mostly in an R&B style in the late 70s - before becoming more of a pop and even a new wave/dance artist in the 80s.

Robbie Nevil put four songs on the R&B charts in the late 80's and early 90's - then turned his focus to producing or writing for recording artists such as Jessica Simpson, etc...His big one was "C'est La Vie" which was Top Ten Pop & R&B in 1986. He also wrote for Earth, Wind & Fire, The Starship, etc. Actually knew somebody who worked with him in the San Francisco Bay Area - and he was out scouting for talent eventually working with a young singer who was signed to Columbia Records (album never got out). However, Nevil is a underrated songwriter which belies his short stature (he stood about 5' 3" when I saw him at this function he attended).

20:09, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Rhythm Syndicate/Jane Child

Added the early 90's blue eyed r&b/funk group known as Rhythm Syndicate - better known as songwriters Evan Rogers & Carl Sturken. They had that one huge hit in 1991, P.A.S.S.I.O.N. which crossed over into the R&B charts-but mainly wrote songs for other artists which include Nia Peeples, Donny Osmond, NSYNC and Rihanna. Also added female funk artist, Jane Child who went top five pop and top ten R&B with "Don't Want To Fall In Love," in 1990. She is listed under subcategory, Canada.

02:15, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Boy George

If The Animals/Eric Burdon and Steve Winwood/Spencer Davis Group are to be listed separately, so does Culture Club/Boy George too. Boy George was one of the earliest new jack artists of the late 80's working with Teddy Riley and had a huge solo R&B hit in 1988 "Don't Take My Mind On A Trip."

02:36, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Emily Elbert

Removed her - she may have some "soulful tunes" - but in reality she's a modern singer-songwriter. Her influences are the legendary singer/songwriter/folk singer, James Taylor and the Brazilian singer/songwriter Antonio Carlos Jobim. Her style may have elements of soul, but after all.. James Taylor also covered R&B tunes as well as doing pseudo R&B based originals such as "Your Smiling Face." Her style is more blues/jazz/folk than anything in the traditional soul/r&b sense (e.g. Tracy Chapman, Joan Osborne). She would be a much better fit in the singer/songwriter article in Wikipedia.

19:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

John Valenti

Added John Valenti. Known for his R&B crossover hit, "Anything You Want," in 1976 which is best described as a uncanny Stevie Wonder impersonation. The song (the same as the album title) reached its peak a few months before Stevie actually released his biggest album, "Songs In The Key Of Life."

18:08, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Harry Wayne Casey

Blue eyed R&B singer otherwise known as KC of KC & The Sunshine Band was added. Like Dr. John, most of his band is composed of African-American musicians. 1976 was the only time when two blue-eyed R&B/soul/funk singers or acts hit no. 1 consecutively on the R&B charts (KC & The Sunshine Band - Shake Your Booty followed by Wild Cherry - Play that funky music).

19:15, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

ABC/Spandau Ballet

Removed ABC... Technically they are a techno/new wave band and have never been associated being a blue-eyed soul act (I have a lot of their stuff). A better choice however is Spandau Ballet whose funk/pop sound included the widely sampled "True."

19:31, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Other additions

Have no problem with other additions. Abdul is of Arabic descent but I guess that's borderline. Nelly Furtado is of Portuguese origin from Canada-which again I believe is OK...

19:31, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Joe Cocker

Removed Joe Cocker... There's a common misconception that he's a soul singer when in reality he's a blues/rock British singer (see Wikipedia article). There's no indication otherwise. That logic also had Janis Joplin on this list as well which was removed earlier.

18:41, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Tower Of Power

I added this group and now removing it. The lead singer is African-American, the band itself is mostly white. Similar in many respects to the British group, The Foundations.

00:11, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Boney James

Read the bio... I believe artists on this list have to sing, not play an instrument ala Kenny G. If the musicians (not singers) were to be included - it would be too numerous to name (e.g. Dennis Coffey). James is a jazz sax player with R&B influences therefore he is removed.

14:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Sanford-Townsend Band

Added blue-eyed soul outfit from the late 70s, Sanford Townsend Band who had the one big hit "Smoke From A Distant Fire." Also, Ed Sanford is also the co-writer of Michael McDonald's first solo hit, "I keep forgetting'."

22:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

No Elvis?

Why isn't Elvis on this list? He's a clear example of a white person performing black music at his time, which happened to be soul, blues and Motown. --Pisceschica (talk) 12:19, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

• Elvis Presley wasn't a soul music performer. Perhaps he sung a few soul songs, but I've never heard of any.Spylab (talk) 23:27, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Answer to Elvis

Spylab is indeed correct. Soul music actually was music that transitioned from the black churches into the pop music world (e.g. Isley Brothers-Shout in 1958). Ray Charles, Clyde McPhatter, Ben E. King, Jackie Wilson, Sam Cooke were essentially gospel singers who made a successful transition. Elvis is a rockabilly artist. Most rockabilly artists at the time were influenced from African-American blues music form(e.g. Elvis' rendition of an earlier blues hit, Hound Dog). If we included Elvis, then a lot more artists would be added such as Jimmy Clanton, Frankie Ford, the doo-wop acts... All the classic rock and rollers musical styles were derived from an earlier black music idiom such as blues, jump blues, older non-soul African American vocal group music styles (such as the Inkspots), etc. Elvis is not considered soul but he did have numerous number ones on the R&B charts (like the Everly Brothers and the Four Seasons). Soul literally began when Ray Charles was accused of desecrating church music by introducing it to the pop audience with his Gospel arrangements and mainstream lyrics. **Note-I'm a huge Elvis fan.**

00:33, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Eamon

Added this artist to the list. Often mistaken for an African-American singer. Eamon was best known for a series of R&B hits including "F..k I Don't Want You Back" in 2004. A definite blue-eyed soul singer.

00:33, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Cat Power

She's very good.. She's more of a crooner - but not a blue-eyed soul singer. She's more of a modern singer-songwriter who has numerous influences on her style. Removed her from this list - she would be better served on the singer-songwriter article in Wikipedia.

21:00, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Jordan Knight

Definitely agree with this one... Even though he was with NKOTB; his 1999 hit, "Give It To You," crossed over into the R&B charts - due to produces, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis who styled the records in pretty much the same sound as Janet Jackson's songs at that same period.

01:19, 27 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.159.210.66 (talk)

James Taylor/Sting

No...not the singer-songwriter. I hardly call any of his stuff ranging from "Fire and Rain," to "Her Town Too" as "blue-eyed soul." Rolling Stone's Illustrated History Of Rock & Roll last printed in 1992 illustrates Mr. Taylor's style clearly. He's actually part of the singer/songwriter movement of the early 1970s that includes Jim Croce, Harry Chapin, Cat Stevens, etc. Now James Taylor of Kool & the Gang is a different story since he's African-American. Removed him as well as Sting - simply put - Sting's music is ecletic and he may be soulful but it's not R&B - it is mostly jazz-based pop and world music.

02:24, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

David Archuleta

Davis Archuleta is NOT white. He is Hondurian.Los besos (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:38, 10 March 2009 (UTC).

Guy Sebastian

Guy Sebastian is not white. His father is Sri Lankan. See Guy Sebastian#Biography —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.213.88.154 (talk) 15:32, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Dear 203.213.88.154

My understanding of the term 'blue-eyed soul artist is that you are a soul artist who is not of black american descent. According to Guy Sebastian's wiki bio his father Ivan is of Sri Lankan descent, while his mother Nellie has an English and Portuguese background. He has a distinctive signature soul voice and grew up listening to Otis Redding and Al Green and these were major influences along with Stevie Wonder. Church was a big part of his formative years and he honed his style and vocals singing gospel music in church every week. What is 'white' these days anyway - there are lots of people in this modern world who come from a blended heritage. Sebastian is Caucasian, has green eyes and is not black. There are also artists on this page that have a blended heritage as well.

I am not sure what else I need to do here - I have provided a third party citation to support Sebastian's inclusion on the list of Australian blue-eyed soul artists and also provided an image of him with blue-eyed soul artist Mr Steve Cropper touring in Australia together in early 2008. Sebastian just recently moved to the United States and is again teaming up with Cropper in Philadelphia Steve Cropper is a legendary American multi Music Hall of Fame inductee famed for his work in the musical genre of SOUL.

I am going to revert back your edits 203.213.66.154 so that my original content is in place again. If you insist on deleting it a third time for no good reason - I will leave it stand - while we seek some mediation here from the wiki admin team as to whether Sebastian is 'white' enough or not.

regards,

Diane

--Diane 21:26, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

It states at the top of this article "Blue-eyed soul (also known as white soul) is a term used to describe R&B or soul music performed by white artists." Guy is not white nor is he causasian, no matter how much you want him to be. Your insistance that he is white is at best ridiculous, at worst, racist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.213.88.154 (talk) 11:24, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

This article has been cleaned up and should be recommended for deletion

Jason Mraz, Sarah Bareilles ARE NOT blue eyed soul artists - they are singer-songwriters... Colbie Caillat is more of a retro 70s singer-songwriter (thanks to her father). Patti LaBelle is african-american; Robert Palmer is already in the British section. I haven't been here in a year and it's a total mess.... Steely Dan (of whom I'm a big fan of) is really more of a jazz/rock fusion.....

In order to understand the "singer-songwriter genre" in which Mraz, Bareilles are obviously listed under.... Listen to the classics.... Those two have more in common with Randy Newman, Paul Simon, Joni Mitchell or even a more direct precedent - Rickie Lee Jones - or other heritage artists from the 1970's and are more akin to current artists such as Daniel Powter, Howie Day, etc. Billy Joel did some pseudo R&B tunes on his "Innocent Man" album but doesn't mean he is a blue-eyed soul artist...-his stuff never got played on R&B stations in the 1980s - rather his "tribute" ended up on the adult contemporary charts.. A blue-eyed soul artist usually ends up on the R&B charts....Elton John went through a "soul phase" in his career in the 1970s with a series of hits, "Philadelphia Freedom," "Bennie and the Jets," "Mama Can't Buy You Love," and "Are You Ready For Love" - all of those reached the R&B charts (Billboard). David Bowie did likewise, and so did the only Beatle to explore this avenue - Paul McCartney.

Again using this term according to some is "subjective," rather than "objective" not knowing what the term actually means.... Paul Simon must have had soul...he even used gospel backup singers on "Loves Me Like A Rock," and "Slip Sliding Away." Similarly put - Billy Joel did the same thing on "River Of Dreams." But they are not blue-eyed soul singers... Therefore those Wikipedia articles are wrong and are rather subjective than objective... In other words, she sings with "soul," therefore she's a "blue-eyed soul singer," is a completely baseless argument with what the genre really means. It encompasses mostly the contemporary R&B styles of the time and the legitimacy in getting played on R&B stations. It also means the bevy of arrangers and writers, and rhythmic styles, etc that accommodate the songs.

Strumming a guitar and singing from the heart doesn't mean he/she is a blue eyed soul singer... and I found a lot of this nonsense on this list....and the names that were purged were trivializing the category. (e.g. - Michael Buble - now Buble is an excellent singer - up there with Harry Connick Jr...- basically jazz-based trad pop - now if that's someone's idea of a practical joke - i'm not laughing)

Therefore I'm going to petition this article to be erased from Wikipedia with all this garbage that was put in since I last edited this in 2008.

03:16, 3 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.156.134 (talk)

No, no, NO!

What is up with this list? Being white and doing a supposedly "black" genre does NOT make an artist blue eyed soul! Blue eyed soul is a genre in and of itself, and, well... I had no clue that P!nk and Justin Timberlake had anything to do with it. (Albert Mond (talk) 20:47, 14 November 2009 (UTC))

• Noted. This list is for blue-eyed soul artists, not blue-eyed contemporary R&B or blue-eyed dance pop artists. Artists who don't perform blue-eyed soul should be deleted.Spylab (talk) 02:20, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Celine Dion and Justin Bieber

Whoever thinks Dion and Bieber are American are utterly incorrect. They were both born in Canada, and are internationally established as born Canadian artistsDiscovermine (talk) 20:58, 25 February 2011 (UTC).

Mariah Carey

I see this debate under a number of other artists, but again, if the term 'blue-eyed soul' is meant to refer to artists who are 'not of African descent' who are performing soul/r&b/urban music, then Mariah Carey is of African-American descent. I note that I do not see Alicia Keys, who is half caucasian, on this list. There's a lack of consistency to this article and the principles being applied to categorize artists therein. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.0.156.181 (talk) 01:37, 5 December 2013 (UTC)