Talk:List of best-selling albums/Archive 7

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Edit request on 13 April 2012

The album In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida by Iron Butterfly should be on this list as it has sold over 25 million copies. The source for this is Wikipedia's own Iron Butterfly page. It should be listed as physadelic rock. Richabuck (talk) 01:55, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

 Not done See Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. Wikipedia is not a RS, as it can be edited by anyone; if you can cite the source from that article, please reactivate the request. Dru of Id (talk) 02:56, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Also, even if a reliable source were located, we shouldn't add the album to the list as it does not meet the certification requirements.

Said requirements specifically state To be on this list, albums released: before 1975 are required to have their lowest available sales figures supported by 25% in certified units.

If we can find a source claiming In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida sold 16 million copies, then we would be justified in adding it.--Mauri96 (talk) 20:55, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 25 April 2012

With over 25 million copies sold and the first platinum album according to RIAA, Iron Butterfly's "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida should be added to the top selling albums list. (ref) http://www.platinumrock.com/in-a-gadda-da-vida_%28album%29/encyclopedia.htm ----

Richabuck (talk) 01:19, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.   — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 03:51, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Young Tarang

According to article, it had sold 60 million copies, but according to article about the band it had sold 40 million copies 82.139.5.13 (talk) 20:09, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

 Not done: Take a look at Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. Wikipedia is not a reliable source and we cannot cite or quote it because it can be edited by anyone. If you can find an external link from any reliable source (BBC, MTV, The Times of India, The Guardian, The New York Times, Billboard, etc.) please mention it so we can consider this edit request.--Mauri96 (talk) 06:23, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Keeping The List Updated

I really believe that this list is one of the most prestigious list on wikipedia, i believe that all musician will killed to have their albums include on the list, I hope the editor must keep this list up to dated.

for examples,

The sources of Norah Jones's album is dead link, and need to change with the latest source, like this one :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/9209228/Keeping-up-with-Norah-Jones.html

The sources of Britney's Oops... album is so old, 12 years ago... need to change with this :

http://entertainment.ca.msn.com/music/photos/gallery.aspx?cp-documentid=28788021&page=5

The sources of Barbra Streisand is also seems not suitable... look not properly... need to change with this one :

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1655741/kanye-west-jay-z.jhtml

please keep the list always seems proper and prestigious.... thank you.. 182.0.131.153 (talk) 13:11, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Done Thank you for bringing those referencing issues to my attention. However, I don't see what was wrong with Guilty 's original source. Both really say the same about the album's sales and both sources say it clearly. I kept both sources for Guilty.--Mauri96 (talk) 01:05, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Michael Jackson's "Bad" album has a new sales figure...

http://theurbandaily.com/1921261/pepsi-plans-michael-jackson-bad-25th-anniversary-campaign/

its been raised form 30 million to 45 million albums sold... somebody change it please and thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.87.203 (talk) 21:56, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

hmmm its been 10 days... can someone give me a response?... please — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.87.203 (talk) 19:13, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry. Here you go:

Bad has sold 19,348,400 copies in 9 countries that together represent roughly 70% of the world music market. This 19 million figure includes 10 million copies sold in the U.S., 3.96 million in the U.K., 1.29 million in France and 1 million in Japan.

In other words, if the sales from all the other, smaller countries was included, total sales would probably not be more than 25 million because ~19.4 million copies have already been sold in almost 75% of the music-buying world.

What's more, Bad has 17,875,000 in certifications, which according to the certification requirements at the top of this page is only enough for a 39,722,222 sales claim. I personally don't believe the album has sold that much, but if you can find a link claiming up to 39 million copies sold, we may be able to change Bad 's sales.--Mauri96 (talk) 01:21, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Keeping The List Updated (Part 2)

Thank you Mauri96.... now for the second part for keeping the list up to dated, i think the sources for Nirvana, Eminem, and Spice Girls need to change because is not suitable and not included on the list.

Spice Girls's Spiceworld has been deleted from the list if i'm not mistaken, but i believed this album has sold 20 million copies and here's the reliable sources for the Girls..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-350502/Spice-Girls-dropped-Live-Aid-follow-up.html

For Eminem two album... the sources are DEAD.... and i've found the two reliable sources for his two album which claim both sold 20 million copies.

http://voices.yahoo.com/eminem-fast-rising-rapper-8607941.html (for the Marshal Matters)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/zackomalleygreenburg/2011/05/17/why-eminem-isnt-getting-money-from-the-universal-suit-yet/ (for the Eminem Show).

and this sources need to change for Nirvana's Nevermind.... congrats for the group for include in the 30 million-club..... among the top selling albums in world history...

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/story/2011-09-26/nirvana-nevermind-20-years-later/50517352/1. 180.244.221.87 (talk) 14:19, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

 Done: I once almost added Spiceworld to the list, but it only has 11.315 million in certifications when it needs 12.8 million per the certification requirements at the top of this page. I corrected and updated the links for the other albums.--Mauri96 (talk) 02:19, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Ricky Martin

Mauri96... i don't know is this list related with sexual act someone... but I see that Ricky Martin's 1999 self titled album is one of the best selling records in world history.. selling over 22 million copies.... and is deserved to be included in this list.... even he's gay...

here is the reliable sources... Gracias..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/70ea63ea-70dc-4b63-951a-2c249d2b3b0a. 118.96.29.102 (talk) 07:15, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Shakira

Mauri96.... there is a hard debate about the sales of Shakira's Laundry Services album...several sources say it 13 million copies like the two of the most trusted and respected sources in the world.... BBC and the Guardian...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/bf24ca37-25f4-4e34-9aec-460b94364cfc

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/shakira

But i've found the two sources that claim the album sold 20 million copies, like the two sources below.... Mauri96.... is this sources RELIABLE... because if yes... then the Shakira album should be include on the list.... Thank You Mauri96...

http://www.cinewsnow.com/news/entertainment?id=133018938&feed=bim

http://voices.yahoo.com/top-10-songs-shakira-3176715.html. 118.96.29.102 (talk) 07:26, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 8 May 2012

The album In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida by Iron Butterfly should be added to this list having sold over 25 million copies. Source: http://www.ranker.com/review/iron-butterfly/1237160

Richabuck

Richabuck (talk) 14:55, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

 Not done: See my comments on this previous discussion.--Mauri96 (talk) 00:14, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, this needless repetition is tiresome.   — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 03:55, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Madonna's True Blue (Part 2)

Hi Maurie.... first of all thanks to change the sources for True Blue to 25 million according to MTV... but personally, i believe that True Blue has been reach the 30 million seller, if we count the certification sales and compare with the requirement for the list, is reliable.

This sources of True Blue, which claim to have sold more than 26 million copies, has been stated NOT reliable... but this M-Audio which is a respected company... and i think you will agree with me that True Blue is deserved to have 26 million claim..

http://www.m-audio.com/artists/en_us/PatrickLeonard.html

Please.... i'm confuse... need your help and your consider... Thank you. 182.3.94.111 (talk) 11:17, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

If you see the discussion below, you will see that sometimes certifications are nowhere near as high as actual sales. However, in the case of True Blue, it has received certifications from 13 countries around the world. By 1986 many more countries were giving certifications than in 1968. In 1986 the certifications an album received gave a better idea of what an it actually sold.

True Blue has 13.975 million in certifications, which is less than what Like a Virgin has, and it has claimed sales of 21 million. Because of this and the reasons I stated in this discussion, I don't think raising the sales number for True Blue is a very good idea. However, keep in mind that the album has enough certifications to support sales claims of up to 32.25 million.--Mauri96 (talk) 04:34, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the response maurie.... and how about Shakira claim and Ricky Martin above...? 182.4.11.210 (talk) 11:24, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Iron Butterfly "In A Gadda Da Vida"

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]

[7]

[8]

It is also silly that an album has to have "certified"(It's the RIAA who didn't even EXIST before partway into the 70's!) I notice the "certification" countries don't include places like China, Japan, India etc. And any way the "Platinum" controversy is worthy of an article in its own right. 41.132.116.62 (talk) 13:34, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmm. An error with my posting appears to have left out some links. Ah well...

[9]

[10]

41.132.116.62 (talk) 13:50, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmm. Upon checking this, there still seems to be a problem with posting links. However, the ones there are more than Reliable. The other bizarre point worth mentioning is the "album released between years x and y must have sold i number of copies". But what difference would it make percentage-wise? Why should an album released however many years later have to have recognised as so many more copies? Surely being recognised is being recognised regardless of the year-of-release? And, more importantly, many people have taken these figures to mean in the USA. Now forgive me if I'm wrong, but this article relates to album sales worldwide. Including illegal immigrants, the US population is less than 5% of the world population. Yet, an album must be "certified" anywhere up to 70%-90% sales according to a very US-centric(and flawed) system? 41.132.116.62 (talk) 14:25, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

I'll stop on this for now, but here are some more points...First could someone please explain exactly how/why the "x5% certified in the USA works"? Who came up with that? If, for example, a group sells millions of albums in Europe and Asia, but fails to crack the USA then they won't be "Certified" to meet the criteria of this article! Next, here's the RIAA "Platinum" certification which is interesting [11] 'In a Gadda Da Vida' was released in June 1968, had gone Gold in less than 6 months...but was only certified Platinum AND Quadruple Platinum on the same day in 1993! So, what? Since Platinum was introduced in 1976, are we to assume that the album had failed to sell an additional half a million units in the 8 years since being certified Gold, and continued to languish with sales of under a million until a sudden and very concentrated rush of sales of over 3 million in late 1992? Considering that the album spent the entirety of 1969 in the Top 10, we would assume that it would be at least Platinum by the time the standard was created in 1976. The real reason for this absurdity is well-known, but I will try and find a WP:RS which states it(however since it would require possible character assassination against Ahmet Ertegun it may be difficult). 41.132.116.62 (talk) 15:30, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, my lie... According to the RIAA site, Iron Butterfly's third album entitled 'Ball' was released on December 31 1969, but was certified Gold on July 22 1969! Now, I like that album as much as anyone else, but even I wouldn't give a record a Gold certification five months BEFORE it was released. And this is the Reliable Source that albums must have been certified a certain per cent by to be included in this article :-) ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.132.116.62 (talk) 15:35, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and as far as the quite frankly idiotic certified a certain percentage of the lowest reported sales figures according to year of release rule goes, here [12] which gives the absurd "more than 4 million" figure. In that case, taking into account all the "certifications" listed, we have a certified figure that is significantly MORE than the lowest reported figure. 41.132.116.62 (talk) 08:38, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and after searching the Wikipedia site, I see that someone put up these two links(on the Iron Butterfly discussion page)

[13] and [14] both of which give a figure of 30 million for In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida. Now, we have the LA Times link which is both a WP:RS and states the figure ad "more than 4 million". The RIAA Certification gives far more than the 25% for that "lowest reported figure". And then we have numerous other WP:RS stating "more than 25 million", and (at least) 2 others stating "30 million". Which, under this article's rules, mean that the album 'In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida' with the 30 million figure can be added to the article. 41.132.116.62 (talk) 08:44, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

I was unaware of the proper procedure so er...

(It would include ALL the links from this section)

Is that right? 41.132.116.62 (talk) 13:05, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

First of all, thank-you for providing such a lengthy and well-supported argument for the inclusion of In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida. I don't really agree with you on some of your points, but I will do the best to explain my views and give my opinion in a peaceful and productive way:

1 - RIAA wasn't created in the 70's, they started awarding Gold awards in 1958.

2 - The "certification countries" you mention are a guide. If you take a look at the list of countries with certifications you'll see that many other countries, including Japan, India, and China certify record sales.

3 - The certification requirements are a way of supporting sales claims with proof for those who are skeptical, while at the same time preventing sales inflation, as happened with the unrealistic figures of 110 million and 60 million for Thriller and ...Baby One More Time. Here is an excerpt from the discussion that led to the creation of the first certification requirements table:

Well, note that I am suggesting the 10% only to get on the list; in other words, if Cliff Richard's claimed figure is 250 million, we'd require at least 25 million in certified sales in order to allow him onto the list. Because regardless of the fact that he's sold half of his records before UK or Germany (for example) began issuing certifications, he still would've had at least 25 million certified units had he really sold 250 million records. This 10% is mainly for two reasons: 1) It's for those artists who have begun their careers years before most of the markets had their certification-system established 2) It's for artists like A.R. Rahman or Alla Pugacheva both of whom have large claimed figures yet no evidence of certified sales, no evidence of sales. Those artists who have begun their careers after 1975 or 1980, and have lot of certified sales, we'll still continue examining their claimed figures and choose the most reasonable figure, that is closest to their certified sales, like we did it for Tina Turner for example.--Harout72 (talk) 00:21, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

4 - Who are these people you say "have taken these figures to mean in the USA ?" The last time I checked, we make sure that the sources we use do not refer to sales in any one country and further, we consider certifications from every country we can find a Gold, Platinum or multi-platinum award in. Some edit requests do center on U.S. sales, but what I do then is tell those who made the request that this article focuses on worldwide sales. What's more, I even go and search for sales in other countries to see if the album(s) that was/were requested can be added. We know, furthermore, that albums can be very successful worldwide without selling much in the U.S. See this other excerpt:

I would caution against applying any percentage across the board to all artists. The US market may account for 25–30% of global sales but that doesn't mean that US sales account for 25–30% of worldwide sales for any given artist. The global market includes many different artists of different music styles, not to mention languages, that sell primarily in one country or region but not others. For example, the Japanese market is the second largest to the US but it is dominated by Japanese artists that have negligible sales in the West. Most American recording artists have at least 50% of their total sales within the US, and for some it is significantly higher. The Eagles, for instance, have sold 120 million albums worldwide according to this article and 100 million (or 83%) of that is in the US. George Strait has sold more than Madonna or Mariah Carey in the US but probably hasn't had significant sales outside North America unlike the aforementioned ladies. The converse also applies. Cliff Richard, for example, has some very high worldwide totals but he's never even had a gold album in the US. The same situation applies to Abba. They were somewhat popular in the US, but not very, nothing close to the level they enjoyed in other countries. Piriczki (talk) 19:24, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

This is probably why China, India and Japan aren't in the list of recording associations here. They may have large populations, and in the case of Japan, a HUGE market, but much the music that is most sold there is local music in those countries' native language. (See, for example, that the best-selling non-Japanese album in Japan sold 80% of what the 10th top-selling Japanese album sold.) The same thing happens in Finland, too. Just check the list of best-selling music artists in Finland for confirmation. The biggest selling "musical entity" there that is not Finnish, ABBA, is in 11th place and has sold less than half as many records as the top-selling artist.

5 - In response to your comment, "In that case, taking into account all the "certifications" listed, we have a certified figure that is significantly MORE than the lowest reported figure.", the 4x Platinum certification that In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida has is less than the more than 4 million copies your link states. In case you don't know how certifications work, an album can receive multiple awards on the same day not because of a sudden sales increase but because the label, retailers, or who ever asks for and gives out these awards decided to certify the album's sales. Also, album being certified Platinum and 4x Platinum simultaneously does not mean it sold 5 million copies or 5.5 million copies (counting the Gold certification). It means that before the certification date at some point the album had passed the 1 million mark in shipments and that, later, shipments reached and passed the 4 million mark.

A minor related reply: regarding your comment, Sorry, my lie... According to the RIAA site, Iron Butterfly's third album entitled 'Ball' was released on December 31 1969, but was certified Gold on July 22 1969! Now, I like that album as much as anyone else, but even I wouldn't give a record a Gold certification five months BEFORE it was released., this is due to a formatting error on RIAA's website. The Jacksons also have a lot of material that was supposedly released on December 31, 1969 even though the group started releasing records in 1976.

I agree--Mauri96 (talk) 03:44, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmm. First, prior to 1976 once an album passed 500 000 copies there were no more certifications. If an album sold 500 000 or 500 000 000 it was still Gold. Second, after 1976 for an album to be certified Platinum, the record company had to send over all the relevant information, and pay the RIAA for the verification etc. It is very well-known that in the mid-70's Ahmet Ertegun had basically disowned Iron Butterfly, after the band violated a contract agreement with Atco/Atlantic. They were non-existent in his eyes, and he basically rewrote history to airbrush them out of it. It wasn't until the 1990's that 'In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida' was able to be up for "verification", by which time the RIAA no longer accepted as concrete evidence decades-old sales records and accounting books. Even if someone was able to get the exact sales figures from the Atlantic ledgers, the RIAA wouldn't accept it. There are reports from 1969, in widely-red and respected magazines that 'In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida' had surpassed first 8 million, and then 10 million sales in the USA alone. Thus the idea, that it has sold between 4 and 5 million in the US is absurd. Likewise, I know how certifications work. But the point was that had everything been as it should have been, any Platinum certifications the album got should have been in 1976, and the fact that both the Platinum and Quadruple Platinum awards(with no Double or Triple) happened on the same day in 1993, 17 years after the certification was introduced, is suspicion enough that all is not entirely sound.

But let's just boil it down to the core facts that were presented earlier..

1)According to the necessities to be included, an album released before 1975 must have been certified at least 25% of the lowest claimed figure.

2)If a RS can be found for that then the album is added according to the highest figure given by a RS

3)The lowest figure given is 4 million. The highest figure is either 25 million or 30 million, depending on whether the last two links are RS or not.

4)The RIAA alone has certified for the region of the lowest figure.

5)There you go. That's the same criteria that every other album in the list is included on. You personally even stated that since the RIAA has certified 4xplatinum, anyone finding a RS which stated something that was not more than 16 million could get the album included with the 25 million entry. 41.132.116.62 (talk) 05:30, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm. Checking by country, I have discovered that 'In A Gadda Da Vida' so far is 4xPlatinum(hehe) in the USA for at least 4 million, 1xPlatinum In France for at least 100 000, 1xPlatinum in Germany for at least 200 000. Other countries have only issued certifications for the past few years. Others aren't even searchable websites, and others MAY be searchable, but I can't understand the language at all. Still we have at least 4.3 million in certifications so far, and a WP:RS stating that the album sold 4 million(4.3 million in certifications so far is at least 25% of the 4 million claimed by one source, as I pointed out earlier). There was also an old WP:RS which used to be used for this article claiming more than 20 million. We then have NUMEROUS WP:RS stating at least 25 million, and various sources stating 30 million(though I've only been able to find two that may be WP:RS. The cake may be taken by Rolling Stone's Encyclopedia Of Rock which states that 'In A Gadda Da Vida' sold 3 million copies worldwide, despite even the RIAA certifying "4 million". The official Iron Butterfly website states in excess of 30 million. Now, once again, let's review the criteria.

1)WP:RS for the highest-reported figure(In spades if we go with 25 million, the 30 million figure would have to rely on the Bloomberg or Ticketmaster link, as the band's official website is too much a Primary Source)

2)Albums released before 1975 to have been certified for at least 25% of the lowest reported figure. The lowest reported figure is either the LA Times' 4 million, or if I can find the Rolling Stone Encyclopedia(I used to have copy) 3 million! As shown above, using the databases which are both user-friendly AND I understand the language we find USA 4m+ + Ger 2ht+ Fra 1ht+ for a certified total of at least 4.3 million. And 4.3 million is certainly at least 25% of both 3 million AND 4 million.

3)We also know that many countries either don't have certification or have only had certification in very recent times.

4)As pointed out, it is more than a little strange that an album released in 1968 would go Gold within a few months, have WP:RS stating both 8 million(within a year of release) in the US alone and 10 million in the US alone(within 18 months of release), yet only be certified both Platinum AND Quadruple Platinum in 1993.

5)Actually #3 and #4 may not even matter. Going by #1 and #2 alone, at least the 25 million, and maybe the 30 million figure can be added to the article. 41.132.116.62 (talk) 14:09, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmm. No response.

Let's go through this AGAIN.Wikipedia criteria for inclusion in this article are that:

1)There must be WP:RS. Check.

2)For an album released before 1975(which this is) the lowest WP:RS must have at least 25% certifications.

3)However the highest WP:RS is the one included in this article.

4)The lowestWP:RS is either the book(still haven't found a copy) which states "3 million" or the LA Times link which states "4 million".

5)Going by certifications we get at least "4.3 million"

6)"4.3 million" is at least 25% of both "3 million" and "4 million".

7)The highest WP:RS is either any of the multitude that state "25 million", or either of the 2(if they meet WP:RS standards) that state "30 million".

8)Thus either the "25 million" or "30 million" not only can, but should be added to the article.

9)This is exactly the way every other album listed in the article is included, including some quite frankly ludicrously high figures(but in those cases remember WP:V ).

10)The article is permanently locked down. Thus someone who is able to edit it, should do so ASAP. 41.132.116.62 (talk) 10:07, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for not answering earlier, I have been busy with schoolwork. I apologize for being so stubborn and maybe selfish. I now see your point. When it comes to albums like these, certifications are just the tip of the iceberg.

I will add In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida as soon as I can with the 25 million figure. Please, if you could find some online sources of those "widely-red and respected magazines that 'In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida' had surpassed first 8 million, and then 10 million sales in the USA alone", that would be great.--Mauri96 (talk) 03:35, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry if that came across as annoying. The magazines(read not red, typo there :) ) were actually different issues of the same magazine..Billboard. I don't think those are online though. However here are some links(not as good perhaps)

[15] [16]. etc. These are latter-day confirmations. Ideally, getting the exact copy of Billboard would be er ideal.

As far as the "10 million" figure, that number was never stated as such, but the well-known quote from Ahmet Ertegun in 1969 was that the Gold award(for sales of 500 000) was meaningless as 'In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida' had "surpassed it more than 20 times over". Which simple arithmetic means is more than 10 million in the USA alone. For this they were awarded a Platinum award by the record company. This was however not an RIAA-certified Platinum award, as those wouldn't exist for another 7 years. The album spent another 18 months or so on the US Album Charts AFTER having "surpassed the Gold Award more than 20 times over". There ARE many online sites stating the information(often quoted verbatim from the Billboard issue), but unfortunately I don't think any of them qualify as WP:RS in their own right. 41.132.116.62 (talk) 07:15, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Not done: Please see previous comments on this Mdann52 (talk) 15:44, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida Cont.

[17]

[18] 41.132.116.62 (talk) 09:04, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Hotel California

H.California should be on list, if you count all shipments/sales (according to RIAA,CRIA,BPI,SNEP,ARIA...) it has sold nearly 22 million copies...

16,000,000 ... USA (16xPlatinum, 2001)

1,800,000 ... UK (6xPlatinum, 2006)

1,000,000 ... Canada (Diamond, 1988)

1,300,000 ... France (Diamond, 1993)

560,000 ... Australia (8xPlatinum, 1996)

500,000 ... Germany (Platinum, 1986)

400,000 ... Spain (4xPlatinum, 2001)

275,000 ... Netherlands (1)

135,000 ... New Zealand (9xPlatinum)

30,000 ... Finland

25,000 ... Austria (Gold, 1991)

"The Beatles"

The Beatles have sold more albums than any other aritst, but the list omits albums such as 'The White Album' which sold over 30 million and 'Abbey Road' which sold over 20 million. And do not forget other multi-million selling Beatles albums such as 'The Red Album' and 'The Blue Album'. This chart does not make senses. For example, we all know that 'Thriller' did not sell 110. Certified sales are less than 50 million. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.7.30.187 (talk) 11:06, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Hotel California 's certifications from the first four countries alone add up to 20 million in sales. However, if you check the list of best-selling music artists, you will see that 110.8 million out of the 127.5 million records the band has sold were sold in the U.S., meaning that they probably weren't incredibly famous elsewhere.

It's no wonder then, that there appears to be no source (or very difficult-to-find sources) that claim 20 million+ in worldwide sales. Sorry. Mauri96 (talk) 03:04, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

I added a certification table for the album and also added it to my list of albums-on-this-list that are ready to have there certification included in the table (see here for more details about including certs on the list). You can find my work here.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 04:49, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree that Hotel California should be on the list, practically everyone who grew up in the 1970s owned a copy and new generations of fans have discovered the Eagles in later years, especially after their 1994 reunion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.167.97.89 (talk) 19:02, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Reuters: BAD has sold 45 million copies!

""Bad" won two Grammy awards and sold more than 45 million copies around the world..."

• http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/21/entertainment-us-michaeljackson-bad-idUSBRE84K0Z120120521

Other sources:

• http://thecelebritycafe.com/feature/2012/05/michael-jacksons-bad-25-include-new-music-and-new-concert-dvd
• http://www.noise11.com/news/michael-jackson-25th-anniversary-bad-on-the-way-20120522
• http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/entertainment/news/article/206593--michael-jackson-s-bad-to-be-re-released-for-album-s-25th-anniversary
• http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/5/prweb9523811.htm
• http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/258982/showbiz/showbizabroad/michael-jackson-is-still-bad-25-years-after-album
• http://www.musicrooms.net/pop/48666-michael-jackson-s-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release.html
• http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/leisure/2012/05/22/jacko-returns-badder-than-ever/
• http://www.entertainment-focus.com/news/michael-jackson-estate-to-release-bad-25
• http://www.heart.co.uk/showbiz/showbiz-news/michael-jacksons-bad-gets-re-issue/
• http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/music/news/Michael+Jackson-240177.html
• http://www.mtv.no/news/michael-jackson-s-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release-33873/
• http://entertainment.stv.tv/showbiz/307048-michael-jacksons-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release/
• http://www.list.co.uk/article/42340-michael-jacksons-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release/
• http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Michael+Jackson+collection+shows+still+years+later/6657443/story.html
• http://studiospy.co.uk/2012/05/22/michael-jackson-to-release-bad-25/
• http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/Leisure/Entertainment/Michael-Jacksons-Bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release-655590.xnf?FeedSourceID=123&FeedImageID=1208176&BodyFormat=1&
• http://gulftoday.ae/portal/ffa49fb8-1268-4e55-b82e-b47165b74bfe.aspx
• http://www.evous.fr/Michael-Jackson-Bad-25-album-CD,1176475.html
• http://www.trinitycable.com/entertainment/index.php?display=story&article=BRE84K0Z1
• http://m.citynews.ca/entertainment/206593/index.php

Older sources:

• http://www.taletela.com/news/15380/michael-jackson-partners-up-with-pepsi-again-30-years-later
• http://thatdame.com/headlines/pepsi-prepares-michael-jackson-bad-25th-anniversary-campaign/
• http://uptownmagazine.com/2012/05/pepsi-teams-with-michael-jackson-for-25th-anniversary-of-bad/
• http://theurbandaily.com/1921261/pepsi-plans-michael-jackson-bad-25th-anniversary-campaign/
• http://thatgrapejuice.net/2012/04/major-pepsi-michael-jackson-bad-2012/
• http://360mediauk.com/blog/2012/05/02/pepsi-sign-post-humous-deal-with-michael-jackson-estate/
• http://www.thegrio.com/entertainment/pepsi-plans-new-campaign-for-michael-jacksons-bad-25th-anniversary.php

--BadMuroZ (talk) 13:13, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

If we look to the official certifications of the album, as summarized in the album's article (Bad (album)), than it's clear that the 45 million figure is inflative and even impossible. The 45 million is maybe inclusive the sale of the singles?

Most of the above mentioned sources are unreliable, only the Reuters source can be determined as 'reliable', but also Reuters can make errors. All the sources are very recent, so it seems that an error was included in the first publication and that a lot of (unreliable) magazines have taken over the unrealistic figure.Christo jones (talk) 22:32, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Certifications

Country	Certification
Australia	6x Platinum
Austria	4x Platinum
Canada	7x Platinum
Europe	1x Platinum
Finland	Gold
France	Diamond
Germany	4x Platinum
Hong Kong	Platinum
Mexico	Platinum + Gold
Netherlands	6x Platinum
New Zealand	9x Platinum
Spain	3x Platinum
Sweden	2x Platinum
Switzerland	5x Platinum
United Kingdom	13x Platinum
United States	8x Platinum

Sales

Region	Sales
Brazil	1,500,000
China	250,000+
France	1,289,400+
Japan	1,000,000
Mexico	450,000+
Netherlands	500,000+
Spain	400,000+
UK	3,959,000
US	10,000,000

|}

Just because the certifications do not add up to the estimated sales, as far as we know, does not mean it doesnt not merit inclusion in this article. If certifications were the sole criteria for inclusion in this article the list will be turned upside down and inside out easily. If you were to take the time to select any album (Go ahead I checked) on the list you will clearly see that most of the albums certifications do not exactly add up to the estimated amount. Some by a great distant. Yahoo Music/reuters is used a few times on this list as a reliable source. So there is no reason for it to be included for BAD. I have a recommendation for you Christo and Mauri, the same raw basic recommendation I gave to the List of best selling music artists a few years back that was built upon by Harout72 and others, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_best-selling_music_artists/Archive_10#Certified_Sales_and_Estimated_sales maybe it will be more satisying to have certified units column for some of the greater sellers of the list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists .It worked out great for Harout72 on that page and so I believe it can be the same for you mauri or whoever. The Almighty King (talk) 09:43, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Can someone just change it to 45 million copies its kinda obvious that it has sold that much... plus it will sell more with the Pepsi campaign and Bad 25 release this summer... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.87.203 (talk) 03:21, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Estimated and Certified are two different parallel lines though some try to link the two.Their conclusion will almost ways be different. But if we're joining them, then go to all of MJ's pages and put your original research as his worldwide estimated album sales. Then go to every artist page of the last 65 YEARS, (Elvis,Beatles,James Brown, Rolling Stones, U2) scroll down to all the albums that they have put out, and just disregard the estimated sales of their albums and put the certifications as their worldwide estimated album sales. A pointless effort. An accepted reliable source like Yahoo Reuters is still acceptable regardless of what some may see as inflated. Most albums certification DO NOT, (parrot mode) DO NOT add up to their estimated amount but it is what it is as Wikipedia allows for reliable sources to be the backbone of all articles of their web pages despite what some may believe as exaggerated, or recycled misinformation. Reuters is reliable until a later article of the same page can prove to it to be otherwise. And if you can, can you stop attacking Thriller every chance you get? This is an online encyclopedic webpage and not a blog spot. CaThe Almighty King (talk) 07:51, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I believe we need to work with ranges in this list. Less than a week ago, there was one source saying that "Bad" sold 45 million copies. Before the moment that this source was published, all the sources were talking about 30 million copies. We should be very careful to include (almost without thinking) such an extremely inflative figure, only because one source introduced a false figure. Just as for Thriller, I think it's better to work with a range (30-45 million).Christo jones (talk) 12:40, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

The problem with including ranges is that before long many fans will see it as an outlet to post more and more inflated sales figures.

On a related topic, I agree with The Almighty King that adding a certified sales column would be beneficial to the article. I have personally already looked for gold and platinum awards and inserted certification tables for albums like Grease, Can't Slow Down and Private Dancer.--Mauri96 (talk) 16:15, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good to me Christo jones. If anybody can make this page the same level as list of best selling music artist its definitely you Mauri96 :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Almighty King (talk • contribs) 02:34, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, but I must admit, I'm not nearly as good (or experienced) an editor as Harout72, the user responsible for making the list of best-selling artists as good as it is today.

In any case, adding a certified sales column for every single album (for that is what I plan to do) will take quite a while, especially considering I'm not going to let Wikipedia interfere with my schoolwork anymore. I am in the last year of the IB Diploma, after all.--Mauri96 (talk) 21:34, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

If anyone wants to get started in my absence, here is a list of some albums that I confirm have certifications--Mauri96 (talk) 21:38, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I've gotten started on the certifications column. I've done The Immaculate Collection as a test and this is what it's going to look like. What I essentially did was go through the history of the list of best-selling music artists and copy the code word-for-word. Because of this, we've lost the centering and color, which, if anyone knows how to insert back in, can be recovered.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 22:31, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Why does wikipedia hate creed ??

THEY HAVE SOLD OVER FIFTY MILLION ALBUMS WORLDWIDE AND THIER ALBUM HUMAN CLAY HAS SOLD OVER THIRTY MILLION RECORDS WORLD WIDE PLEASE INCLUDE THEM PLEEAASSEEE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.63.11.0 (talk) 12:02, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Do you have any WP:RS for that? Actually, even if you DO have WP:RS they may not get included if the editors don't like them.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.132.116.62 (talk) 12:05, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Hey, that "editors don't like them" is a thing of the past. If you give us a calm, logical argument for an album you want to be added, we'll definitely consider it and most likely add it. Just take a look at this discussion.

Human Clay 's certifications in Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Germany, plus actual sales of 11,579,000 in the US total a mere 12,684,000 copies. Thirty million therefore seems a bit of a stretch, but if you can find an WP:RS, rest assured we'll consider it.--Mauri96 (talk) 17:10, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

NONSENSE according to many sources and even wikipedia creed human clay sells seven mil in NZ+five mil in aus + six mil in canada +eleven in USA and Gold in ger even wikipedia says tht the sales are over thirty mil so i not thirty mil it should certainly be included in the twenty to twenty nine mil category. another thing is tht see thier discography and cont they should evn be included on list of best selling artists — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.63.23.10 (talk) 12:27, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Seven million in New Zealand? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.132.116.62 (talk) 14:56, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

You're confusing platinum certifications with sales and shipments. The only country in the world where 1x Platinum=1,000,000 copies is the United States. I strongly suggest you check international award levels and then THIS chart.

The best-selling album of all time in the US, Thriller, has a 29x Platinum certification for 29 million copies shipped.

Tell me, if the United States population is 313 million and its ALL-TIME biggest-selling album shipped only ONE copy for every NINE people, how could Human Clay sell seven million copies in New Zealand, a country with a population of 4.4 million??--Mauri96 (talk) 22:43, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

ok sorry — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.63.14.166 (talk) 06:45, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

MILLENNIUM 40 MIL

Backstreet Boys Millennium has sold 40 million copies. It was listed as that for years until someone came up with an unreliable source for 30 mil. IT HAS SOLD 40 MILLION. GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL SOURCES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.220.231.60 (talk) 01:14, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Original isn't always better. Especially when "original" is accused of inflating and exaggerating sales.

You might want to check this table (remember, European awards include sales from Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey and the UK).

This discussion might help, too.

We have certification requirements for a reason, you know.--Mauri96 (talk) 00:25, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

TLC Album.

maurie.... hi.... TLC CrazySexyCool.... sold over 22 million... please include on the list... is deserved.. http://entertainment.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/26/11411928-tlc-reuniting-for-a-tour-with-virtual-lisa-left-eye-lopes?lite. 182.3.93.79 (talk) 12:53, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 25 June 2012

Once again..... the TLC Album... crazysexycool, have claim to have sold 22 million copies. according from this sources.... http://entertainment.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/26/11411928-tlc-reuniting-for-a-tour-with-virtual-lisa-left-eye-lopes?lite... please include

182.9.155.171 (talk) 14:55, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Done Callanecc (talk) 02:39, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 25 June 2012

Britney Spears's ...Baby one more time Album.

there is two different sources which claims the sales of Britney debut to sold...

30 million... http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,409286,00.html

and 27 million... http://www.bloomberg.com/article/2012-05-14/aqrZugk.m5R4.html

but i think the sources from Bloomberg is the better sources, because is recently, unlike the sources from Guardian which is 12 years ago...

thank you mauries...

182.9.155.171 (talk) 15:54, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Partly done: I went with the Bloomberg reference for two reasons: one as requester stated it was the latest; and two, as well it was the lower number. Callanecc (talk) 02:43, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Elton John... Elton John's Greatest Hits

In the last three years, in this list...Madonna's The Immaculate Collection have claim to sold 30 million copies, and has been stated as the best selling compilation by a solo artist by many sources...

and now Elton John's Greatest Hits have claim 32 million by custom channelItalic text, more than Madonna Immaculate... which makes the title of the best selling compilation by a solo artist went on to Elton John...

is this reliabel?.... i have try to find a reliable sources for 32 million claim of Elton John... but it seem's Custom Channel is the ONLY ONE sources...

again, is this reliable...

This list is very prestigious... so please, if that claim not reliable... please remove.... gracias... 39.214.9.71 (talk) 11:41, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 28 June 2012

first of all, thank you for your quick response to include TLC album and re-new Britney debut sources claim.... but i still uncomfortable with george michael's faith album.... the sources not conected with the internet... i have better sources, and i think... is better one..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1351178/Its-high-time-restore-Faith-George-Michael.html

what do you think sir?..

 Done– First off I am not a sir. Second of all, thank you for the source for Faith.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 16:42, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

182.9.137.113 (talk) 13:54, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 28 June 2012

and again for Iron Butterfly.... how about this sources ? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-15/iron-butterfly-seeks-royalty-payments-40-years-after-in-a-gadda-da-vida-.html..

gracias...

hello Cyberpower (or whatever your name as editor in wikipedia).

if you use your Brain, rather than your anger... you will be understand what i have mention on the earlier request....

please see the sources of Iron Butterfly sources on the list, it seem's for me (remind me if i'm wrong) not connected to the site, same condition like the sources of george michael's sources... making look NOT reliable...

so, i give this sources... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-15/iron-butterfly-seeks-royalty-payments-40-years-after-in-a-gadda-da-vida-.html..

and again, IF YOU LOOK INSIDE, it was stated on the article, that In a gadda da vida... sold 30 million according from the Band website, so if this sources reliable, so i think it will be better to change the old sources of that album... which is seem's NOT properly...

so, i need YOUR CONSIDER as editor...

and the most important to you...Cyberpower... like you said that MANY different people will read/look this talk page.... please use some respect... I really shock with your H E L L word... especially because from the first talk, i use a good word without any H3LL or F#CK word...

it is so embarrassing, you call yourself an editor... if you can't put some respect in your word.... i know, i'm just a reader... but please, reader is also a human.... same like you i guess.... i have heart and could be hurt...

gracias...

39.212.188.109 (talk) 02:07, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

182.9.137.113 (talk) 13:59, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed.—cyberpower ^Chat_Online 23:30, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 29 June 2012

hi... mauri... sorry for calling you sir... and sorry because there's so many edit request from me about this list.... honestly, i really like this list... and i hope the list will always up-dated..

and for the Bodyguard soundtrack... its claim 44 million.... but i have found 45 million claim from this sources... is this reliable ?.. gracias..

http://www.huliq.com/10282/whitney-houston-should-be-left-rest-peace-while-death-not-suspicious

39.213.149.121 (talk) 05:44, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Not done for now: Your seems to be reliable but spams the hell out of me. Could you consider providing a different sites? Please also note that different people review edit requests so be please be sure you are specific in your requests so every editor can understand it.—cyberpower ^Chat_Online 23:34, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

ok.... continue..

i'm apologize to put some H 3 L L to you... just suggest, if you don't like my edit request... then DO NOT EVER, reply or comment on my request... let another editor's answering or... just deleted from this talk.... but do not say another H 3 L L word on behalf of me...

and... i have found a sources from BET (Black Entertainment Television) for 45-m claim of The Bodyguard soundtrack....

http://www.bet.com/news/music/2012/01/26/adele-s-21-sets-new-records.html

maurie... what do you think?... is this acceptable... thank u...

39.212.188.109 (talk) 05:43, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

This source seems reliable for the 45 million claim. Given that Whitney just passed away and has sold 5 million in certified sales alone between before and after, updating the figure makes sense.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 01:30, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Color

I propose a change to the colors so color blind users can distinguish the colors easily.

Colors
	Studio Albums
	Greatest Hits & Compilations
	Soundtracks

Sample table with the new color scheme:

Artist	Album	Released	Genre	Sales (millions)	Source
Michael Jackson	Thriller	1982	Pop / Rock / R&B	65-110
Pink Floyd	The Dark Side of the Moon	1973	Progressive rock	50
AC/DC	Back in Black	1980	Hard rock / Heavy metal	49
Michael Jackson	Bad	1987	Pop / Rock	30-45
Whitney Houston / Various artists	The Bodyguard	1992	Soundtrack	44
Meat Loaf	Bat Out of Hell	1977	Hard rock	43
Eagles	Their Greatest Hits (1971–1975)	1976	Rock	42
Various artists	Dirty Dancing	1987	Soundtrack	42
Bee Gees / Various artists	Saturday Night Fever	1977	Soundtrack	40
Fleetwood Mac	Rumours	1977	Rock	40
Shania Twain	Come On Over	1997	Country / Pop	40

Actually only the Greatest Hits & Compilations color needs to be changed because while the previous color scheme works fine for people with protanopia and deuteranopia, people with tritanopia see both blue and green as greenish color so it was almost indistinguishable. Yellow appears pinkish to people with tritanopia so it will be easy for them to distinguish yellow from blue (pinkish and greenish). People with protanopia and deuteranopia also have no problem distinguishing yellow from blue, however, I shifted the color for Studio Albums a little bit to give more contrast so people with tritanopia could distinguish that from the Soundtracks greyish color more easily.--Krystaleen 15:10, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Sure, great idea. You sure know what you're talking about. If it improves the usability of this page, I'm all for it.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 19:29, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Great, I'm gonna start making changes.--Krystaleen 03:43, 30 June 2012 (UTC)