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Talk:List of battles fought in Ohio

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Block Spacini from this page

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Looking at the history of this page it's clear that Spacini is abusing power. Literally everybody finds it ridiculous to list a shooting at a school where the protestors were unarmed as a "battle" were the students were fighting the national guard which has lead to years of "vandalism" as people have to fix basic facts. If we seriously have to entertain this idea then we might as well list all police shootings and riots in the entirety of Ohio's history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.53.195.98 (talk) 19:48, 6 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As I noted in in my reversal of this blanking edit by other unregistered editors, riots and massacres such as the Tulsa race riot, the Columbine Mine massacre, and the Cincinnati riots of 1884 have not been removed as they are, indeed, conflicts between groups. The point that the Kent State Riot was not a battle because one side was not armed with firearms is irrelevant. This would of course necessitate the removal of other battles in other lists wherein one group (such as Native Americans) were unarmed with firearms, but fought against others who were. And, "Literally everybody finds it ridiculous"? Really? Spacini (talk) 01:34, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The page is not a list of "conflicts". Its clearly titled "battles" the definition of battle is "a sustained fight between large organized armed forces". On multiple levels, Kent State does not match that definition. Kent State 100% should be removed and if you believe that this then means that other things that YOU have claimed to be battles should also be removed then feel free to start the individual discussion for them here as we review facts but the fact is that stating that the students of Kent State were armed and fought anybody (which is what the definition says) is wrong and you have spent years fighting against people trying to correct that record. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.60.152.41 (talk) 10:45, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Although civil disturbances -- riots, police riots, gang wars etc. -- may often be colloquially or with hyperbole called "battles", a Wikipedia article which is a "list of battles" is relying on the standard definition of a battle as being combat between armed military or paramilitary units, so it does seem inappropriate for Kent State to be included in this article Hard-fought political disputes are also often called "battles", as are some sporting events (prize fights, wrestling, American football), and it would not be appropriate to include those in the article either. The National Guard was not acting in its capacity as a military unit, but in its capacity of responding -- at the order of the governor of the state -- to riots and other civil unrest. Further, the other side in the "battle" was unarmed, and was not a military unit, but a group of civilian students. (None of this is to say that I approve of the actions of the Guard at Kent State, I most certainly do not.)
    As for the suggestion that Spacini should be blocked from editing the article, I do not see sufficient evidence to support that idea, however Spacini should look at the number of times their attempt to add Kent State and other civil disturbances to the article have been reverted by numerous editors (who appear to be operating from a neutral position) and take that as a firm consensus that their attempts are inappropriate. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:22, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with Beyond My Ken. Spacini, if Kent State was actually a battle, then 49 years later, it should be easy to find high quality academic sources written by military historians describing it as a battle. The book sources I can find describe it as a "massacre" or as "violence". I found one book that uses "battle" in the title, but that book portrays the investigation and the commemoration of the events as a metaphorical battle, not the actual shootings. Therefore, I oppose listing Kent State in this article. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 22:42, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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