Talk:List of The Legend of Vox Machina characters

Scope

@IronMaximus this edit introduces a problem – Trinket is played by a Cheech Marin in a guest star role in season 2. The table as was reflected the intended scope of the draft article, which was "cast members". The scope changed when the title was renamed to "characters" between the move from draft to main space. I can see 2 options:

1. change the article title to "cast" as originally intended and revert the table (would probably have to revert then move, if not getting a SysOp to do it). An absolute faff, but solves the "problem" of Matt having a main cast credit but playing recurring and background roles.
2. further condense the table to perhaps look a little like this, which gives us scope for future seasons:

Character	Portrayed by
	Season 1	Season 2
Main characters
Vex'ahlia "Vex" Vessar	Laura Bailey
Percival "Percy" Fredrickstein Von Musel Klossowski de Rolo III	Taliesin Jaffe
Pike Trickfoot	Ashley Johnson
Trinket	Matthew Mercer	Cheech Marin

etc.

Thoughts? (I don't actually think either is ideal, but am leaning more towards 2.) Little pob (talk) 11:56, 23 January 2023 (UTC) Little pob (talk) 11:56, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

The problem is obviously that some of the main actors also voice side characters with especially Mercer being a problem since none of his characters can really be classified as main characters. Maybe we could just get rid of the colours and do a cast table similiar to List of Star Wars: The Clone Wars cast members. One section for the main characters (not actors), so the Seven Vox Machina members, and then everyone else goes into a supporting character section, regardless of how many episodes they appear in or if the voice actor is credited as main or as a guest. It could look something like this:

Character	Appearances
	Season 1	Season 2
Vex'ahlia "Vex" Vessar	Laura Bailey
Percival "Percy" Fredrickstein Von Musel Klossowski de Rolo III	Taliesin Jaffe

Character	Appearances
	Season 1	Season 2
Introduced in Season One
Lady Allura Vysoren	Indira Varma
Lord Sylas Briarwood	Matthew Mercer	Does not appear
Introduced in Season Two
Thordak	Does not appear	Lance Reddick

(I only included a few characters as examples) ~~~ IronMaximus (talk) 12:36, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm always a fan of precedent; but will wait for more voices, as there might be MOS:TV arguments to consider. Little pob (talk) 13:33, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

@IronMaximus and Little pob: Just want to flag a few concerns:

• Mercer is listed in the credits as Trinket in S2E2 & S2E3 (no one is listed as Trinket in S2E1). What's the source that Cheech Marin is taking over the role?
• I used Behind the Voices to determine recurring vs guest and the recent edit has changed a few recurring actors to guest. Per MOS:TVCAST: A cast member or character appearing in more than one episode, or in two or more consecutive episodes, does not necessarily mean that character has a "recurring" role. An actor or character may simply have a guest role across several episodes, rather than a recurring story arc throughout the show. If reliable sources cannot adequately distinguish between recurring or guest roles, then local consensus should determine their status. I think we should revert back to the source rather than us determining who is recurring/guest, however, Behind the Voices hasn't been updated for season 2 yet.
• Iron said above: Mercer being a problem since none of his characters can really be classified as main characters - I divided it between main actors and recurring/guest actors since the show's credits determine who is a main actor and who isn't. My preference between the two example tables above is the first one since that continues to highlight who is main vs recurring/guest per credits.

On the article title, @Editmaster4 created the article from scratch (thus a different article title from Little pob's original draft) and then I went through the undeletion process to grab the table from Little pob's draft & have edit history merged to the right place. I don't have a strong preference here. Sariel Xilo (talk) 16:49, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

• The problem I had with the previous version was that it was a little inconsistent. Tony Hale and Logic both appeared in 2 episodes, but one was listed as recurring and the other as guest. There has to be some consistency. IMO I think we should just ignore a possible recurring/guest distinction and put everyone into a supporting character section.
• I just had the following idea: First a main cast section that is split into main characters (the seven Vox Machina members) and supporting characters (all other characters voiced by these eight actors). Second a guest cast section for everyone else. If a character like Trinket was voiced by both a main and a guest actor, then we can use the colours. Mercer is marked as green, Marin as blue. It could look like this:

  Main cast

Character	Appearances
	Season 1	Season 2
Main characters
Vex'ahlia "Vex" Vessar	Laura Bailey
Percival "Percy" Fredrickstein Von Musel Klossowski de Rolo III	Taliesin Jaffe
Supporting characters
Lord Sylas Briarwood	Matthew Mercer	Does not appear
Trinket	Matthew Mercer	Cheech Marin

Guest cast

Character	Appearances
	Season 1	Season 2
Introduced in Season One
Lady Allura Vysoren	Indira Varma
Sir Fince	Tony Hale	Does not appear
Archibald Desnay	Dominic Monaghan	Does not appear
Introduced in Season Two
Thordak	Does not appear	Lance Reddick

We could also add to that just a short explanation that some of the main actors voiced characters that only appeared in one or two episodes, so the reader understands the table. That way Mercer would correctly be listed with the main cast, but we'd still have a clear distinction for main vs supporting characters.

IronMaximus (talk) 08:38, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

WRT Cheech Marin: I've noticed there are plenty of sources saying he is guest starring this season, but only a couple stating who he is playing. So here's a recent one from CBR: The Legend of Vox Machina Hides a Battle Chasers Easter Egg in Plain Sight (cbr.com) Something I've realised since yesterday; this is the era in the live play game where Keyleth got speak with animals, which may explain why Trinket is played by two people this season—Cheech during the spell, Matt at all other times. Obviously sources are needed on that; but we can list two people for the role if both Mercer and Marin are credited for the season for Trinket. Do we even need the table, given it essentially duplicates the info in the list that follows it? Little pob (talk) 10:16, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

I like this table suggestion. On recurring vs guest consistency, I still don't think that's up to us to decide because that comes down to how the show wants to give out credit. If I had to assume why 2 actors with the same episode number were listed differently, it's probably down to the number of voiced lines (ie. guest being more of a cameo). We could probably remove both "Palace Guard" & "Tavern Keeper" from the table for not being named characters. Maybe include a prose section on cameos if needed?

Do we even need the table - I think ideally each name is formatted with internal anchors so you can use the table as navigation.

On Cheech, IMBD has him down for a Feywild episode so I bet that's why they switch actors (I'm assuming Trinket gets dialogue). If we're splitting it into two tables, then when Cheech is added for Trinket in the "Guest cast" table, we can add a footnote with an explanation for why Trinket is listed twice. Sariel Xilo (talk) 15:50, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

I think ideally each name is formatted with internal anchors so you can use the table as navigation. That can be done with internal links built into glossary markup. If you're not familiar, check User:Little_pob/List_of_Critical_Role_characters for an example started shortly before my wikibreak (and still very much in need of work). Whilst glossary markup is less intuitive to use; it does avoid long tables of content from overuse of sub-sections, and prevents having to ignore MOS:BOLD (see current "other characters" section). I do want to point out WP:WHENTABLE, however, which wants us to link to specific articles; not internal sections/anchors. No issues with applying WP:IAR, but we should have the discussion for the purpose of consensus. (I'm actually neutral on the use of a table here – just trying to play devil's advocate given the guideline.) Little pob (talk) 13:45, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

I've looked at a few cast/character tables recently; even when article scope is character, the tables list by actor. Therefore, I'm proposing this change once season 3 starts airing.

Actor	Character	Season
		Season 1	Season 2
Main cast
Laura Bailey	Vex'ahlia "Vex" Vessar	Main
Taliesin Jaffe	Percival "Percy" Fredrickstein Von Musel Klossowski de Rolo III	Main
Ashley Johnson	Pike Trickfoot	Main
Matthew Mercer	Trinket	Main

Of note, MOS:TVCAST suggests removing guest stars from cast tables once a show hits three seasons. Some shows follow this guideline, others don't. Little pob (talk) 15:49, 4 December 2023 (UTC) Little pob (talk) 15:49, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

References

Fantasy world names and AWB

Noting for posterity and to bring other editors' attention; WP:AWB will "correct" Fince → Finance when it is asked to fix typos. As such Fince is now wrapped in the {{proper name}} template, which will hopefully indicate to AWB that it's the intentional spelling. If AWB causes problems with another made up word from Matt or the team please use {{Not a typo}} or one of its substitution templates to have it skipped. Little pob (talk) 19:03, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

The Chroma Conclave nicknames

The source I've used for the nicknames that were added to the Chroma Conclave is the blog of Sideshow Collectibles – the collectable company. I've boldly used it as RS and V don't really discuss how to treat company blogs in these instances. However, as Sideshow have a merchandise agreement with CRP, it would be great if anyone found a source that could replace it, which doesn't amalgamate C1's events with those of TLOVM. Little pob (talk) 12:07, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Organizing roles by Actor?

I understand that Recurring/Guest is organized by first appearance, but I feel like it would make more sense to make it first appearance, but then cluster all the roles of an individual actor together, which I feels gives a better overview for someone looking at a glance. Thoughts on this kind of formatting?

Character	Portrayed by	Appearances
		Season 1	Season 2	Season 3
Lady Allura Vysoren	Indira Varma	Recurring
Lord Sylas Briarwood	Matthew Mercer	Recurring	Does not appear
Umbrasyl		Does not appear	Recurring	Does not appear
Craven Edge		Does not appear	Recurring	Does not appear
Lady Delilah Briarwood	Grey Griffin	Recurring	Does not appear

Queenqpawn (talk) 16:05, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

My preference is for the cast lists to be by VA rather than their character(s). Additionally, the way I'm interpreting "Cast tables [...] should not be used [...] where cast changes are minimal over at MOS:TVCAST is that we should do away with the main cast section of the table (and probably their roles in the Recurring and Guest characters tables).

Doing both would look something like this:

Example trimmed guest cast with actor as scope
Voice actor Character Appearances Season 1 Season 2 Season 3 Indira Varma Lady Allura Vysoren Recurring Grey Griffin Lady Delilah Briarwood Recurring Does not appear

But very open to discussion. Little pob (talk) 22:58, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm stuck because I do think that's a better format but then it feels like every actor should only have a single section so we lose the distinction between Main/Recurring/Guest. Or, keep those sections and each actor only has a single section under each. Queenqpawn (talk) 21:22, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I half-spoke. Rather than removed from the article, the main cast would be presented in prose instead of the table.

A while ago, @Sariel Xilo and I had a conversation on a CR talkpage somewhere that one page would contain the in world info; the other would be the players' inspirations behind their characters. I forget which way round they suggested doing it, however, and the conversation may have been about the actual play show and its associated character page(s).

I do like the suggestion of sectioning by actor too...

Incomplete conversion to actor sections

Character Appearances Season 1 Season 2 Season 3 Main cast Laura Bailey Vex'ahlia "Vex" Vessar Main Taliesin Jaffe Percival "Percy" Fredrickstein Von Musel Klossowski de Rolo III Main Lord de Rolo Recurring Does not appear Ashley Johnson Pike Trickfoot Main Matthew Mercer Trinket Main Lord Sylas Briarwood Recurring Does not appear Umbrasyl Does not appear Recurring Does not appear Craven Edge Does not appear Recurring Does not appear Liam O'Brien Vax'ildan "Vax" Vessar Main Vorugal Does not appear Guest Recurring Marisha Ray Keyleth of the Air Ashari Main Sam Riegel Scanlan Shorthalt Main Travis Willingham Grog Strongjaw Main

Little pob (talk) 16:39, 15 October 2024 (UTC) Little pob (talk) 16:39, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Personally I think the table gives a better overview if the characters are sorted by seasons. The example you provided above is still easy to look at, but the longer the show goes on and the more different characters each VA voices, the more confusing it will become to look at. You'll see a few S1 characters, followed by S2, S3, etc, then suddenly jump back to S1 characters again. IMO the benefit of seeing all of the VA's characters next to eachother is not enough to warrant making the table more complicated to look at for casual readers. IronMaximus (talk) 06:52, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Not a visual thinker, do you mean something like List of American Horror Story cast members? Little pob (talk) 16:42, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Replying here, but I think the American Horror Story cast members style makes the most sense, with a section for the Main cast members (listing all their roles in a season) and then below the recurring characters. I agree with @Sariel Xilo that the guest characters should all be removed Queenqpawn (talk) 18:10, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Personally I think the table is better the way it's currently laid out, but I agree the guest section could be removed. TheHumanIntersect (talk) 18:00, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Little pob: If I remember correctly, I think it was that real world info (such as inspirations, production decisions, etc) should be incorporated at List of Critical Role cast members since MOS:TVCAST states the "key is to provide real-world context to the character". I don't think it was about having fictional info in one place while having real-world info in another place. I don't have a strong preference on the style for this table besides distinguishing between main and reoccurring cast. We also do not need to list every character (especially those that only appear once) - the MOS highlights that "not every character deserves to be listed". I think the table readability could be improved by removing all the entries under guest characters (ie. do we really need to list "Palace Guard" because it is a celebrity cameo?). Sariel Xilo (talk) 17:22, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Including more real-world info (inspiration etc) was definitely part of the discussion, as there was (is) increasingly more sources available with that information. Not sure why I thought there was a desire to have in-world character info in a separate place. Even so, the various manual of styles for TV shows have changed since I started going on wikibreaks. (Not greatly, but enough that my understand has changed.) And what looked to be allowed or disallowed, even just 12 months ago, has been clarified in the interim. Little pob (talk) 18:01, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Removing "guest character" section

(Break to confirm whether there is consensus) It looks like there is consensus to remove the "Guest characters" section of the list?

If it is removed, what do we do with the guest roles for the main cast? My preferrence is move that info to main cast section, similar to examples above, but give Matt a credit for "Background characters" tagged with {{CGuest}}. Little pob (talk) 18:08, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

I agree with removing guest characters except for guest roles across seasons (example Jarett) or special guest roles ie. Tavern Keeper as a Kickstarter reward.

As for reorganzing table, I was experimenting with the American Horror Story table style. It is still a little messy with all of Mercer's roles (and I'm not entirely certain these are all the credited roles in the show, will need to verify). I think since they are main cast members it shouldn't matter if the Character is Main/Recurring/Guest, but if we do make it that way it probably makes sense to add a single row for each character instead of the formatting below

Example Starring Role List

Portrayer Capacity and character per season Season 1 Season 2 Season 3 Starring Laura Bailey Vex'ahlia "Vex" Vessar Elaina Taliesin Jaffe Percival "Percy" Fredrickstein Von Musel Klossowski de Rolo III Lord de Rolo Ashley Johnson Pike Trickfoot Matthew Mercer Trinket Lord Sylas Briarwood Orthax Umbrasyl Craven Edge Victor Artagan Orthax Yenk Dr. Dranzel Liam O'Brien Vax'ildan "Vax" Vessar Vorugal Marisha Ray Keyleth of the Air Ashari Sam Riegel Scanlan Shorthalt Travis Willingham Grog Strongjaw

Queenqpawn (talk) 06:00, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

On reviewing the Credit List for each episode I came up with this list, but I'm open to suggestions or changes. For Mercer, I only included named roles that have at least two appearances in a season (mainly because Trinket only has 2 in season 3) to solve the expansive role list and added a note to his name that he voices other background characters. Other actors have all roles credited to them regardless of appearances or named characters.

For guest characters, I included if it was particularly notable (ie. Tavern Keeper) or if the actor had appearances in at least 4 episodes as that character across all seasons. This would include Captain Jarett, Syldor, and Korrin. I thought it was notable to have those characters since they show up enough as a recurring character across seasons, but I'm open to changes.

My thoughts on the future is that we should consider actors as Main/Recurring/Guest, not individual characters.

Example New Role List

Portrayer Capacity and character per season Season 1 Season 2 Season 3 Starring Laura Bailey Vex'ahlia "Vex" Vessar Elaina Taliesin Jaffe Percival "Percy" Fredrickstein Von Musel Klossowski de Rolo III Lord de Rolo Soliders Earth Ashari Wooden Nose Ashley Johnson Pike Trickfoot Matthew Mercer Trinket Orthax Orthax Dr. Dranzel Lord Sylas Briarwood Umbrasyl Craven Edge Yenk Liam O'Brien Vax'ildan "Vax" Vessar Vorugal Marisha Ray Keyleth of the Air Ashari Sam Riegel Scanlan Shorthalt Travis Willingham Grog Strongjaw Recurring and Notable Guest Stars Stephanie Beatriz Lady Kima of Vord Khary Payton Sovereign Uriel Tal'Dorei Sovereign Uriel Tal'Dorei Does not appear Indira Varma Lady Allura Vysoren Grey Griffin Lady Delilah Briarwood Lady de Rolo Does not appear Sunil Malhotra Shaun Gilmore Darin De Paul Kerrion Stonefell Does not appear Anjali Bhimani Head Cleric Does not appear Stephen Root Professor Anders Does not appear Dominic Monaghan Archibald Desnay Does not appear Rory McCann Duke Vedmire Does not appear Gina Torres Keeper Yennen Esmé Creed-Miles Cassandra de Rolo Kelly Hu Dr. Anna Ripley Lance Reddick Does not appear Thordak Cree Summer Otherworldly Voice Raishan Salda Will Friedle Does not appear Kashaw Kashaw Mary Elizabeth McGlynn Does not appear Zahra Zahra Abubakar Salim Does not appear Zanror Does not appear Ralph Ineson Does not appear Kevdak Does not appear Aisling Franciosi Does not appear Kaylie Ike Amadi Does not appear Earthbreaker Groon Earthbreaker Groon Additional Voices Luis Carazo Does not appear Zerxus Ilerez Mason Alexander Park Tavern Keeper Does not appear Eugene Byrd Jarrett Howarth Does not appear Additional Voices Troy Baker Does not appear Syldor Vessar Fred Tatasciore Does not appear Korrin Additional Voices

Queenqpawn (talk) 22:54, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

With no objections after a week, I will change role list Queenqpawn (talk) 00:20, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for not replying sooner, but I personally think this version is extremely awkward-looking and unclear. Because of how many different roles some of the cast have, it just turns into a jumble of lines and huge blank spaces. TheHumanIntersect (talk) 08:43, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

References