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Deleted Photo

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Someone has removed the previously posted photo of Tommie Smith and John Carlos and have nominated it for deletion. I see no discussion on that issue, but that image should be restored. This statue is a campus icon on the San Jose State campus, signifying a most notable moment on the world stage by two San Jose State alumni. There could be no better picture to encompass recognizable achievement by San Jose State athletes. There are, however, still some people who harbor racist issues or a political agenda against that event. Those people should not be allowed to influence Wikipedia content. Trackinfo (talk) 18:26, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

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Someone has placed the insufficient references tag into this listing. They obviously seem to ignore the fact that this is a listing. All of the individuals named here either sub-reference to their own wikipedia article or are not significant enough to have such an article. I'm not going to get into a case by case discussion for deletion here, but those who do have an article already have sufficient references for those articles to remain on wikipedia (despite the trend toward deletion that passes for revue here--but I digress). It is unnecessary to expect that a list like this should need to duplicate, each and every one of the references for something already contained on wikipedia. The insufficient references tag does not need to detract from this article. Trackinfo (talk) 18:26, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Notability

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"In general, a person or organization added to a list should have a pre-existing article before being added to most lists. If you wish to create such an article, please first confirm that the subject qualifies for a separate, stand-alone article according to Wikipedia's notability guideline." - SummerPhD (talk) 00:06, 27 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Single purpose account User:Londonfifo (talk | contribs) has reverted all of my removals in a series of 8 edits, repeatedly claiming that "all ______s are notable" and that my edits were likely vandalism.
First, while all of my edit summaries were brief (mostly stating "not notable"), there is absolutely no indication of vandalism. Please do not repeat the claim.
Second, when you disagree with numerous edits (over a dozen, in this case) and disagree with some but not all of them, it is hard to fathom not discussing the issue on the article's talk page.
Third, please alphabetize your additions to lists.
Finally, to the issue at hand: WP:NLIST and Wikipedia:Write the article first. Yes, it would be great if the school you graduated from or work for listed 18 gazillion famous people who went there. That's not how Wikipedia works. In general, a person or organization added to a list should have a pre-existing article before being added to most lists. Otherwise, that dude who barely snuck through with a degree in your school's ill-advised Comparative Cable TV Programing program (in only 5 and a half years, including summers) will add himself and all the guys he killed brain cells with. While supporters of the school (mostly alumni and employees) will want to include every possible graduate who is the least bit successful (other than prodigious serial killers and indicted felons) the schools detractors will want to load the list with convicted pedophiles and drug dealers while yanking humanitarians and other admirable types. What to do?
Thankfully, we've thought of this. Per WP:NLIST, "articles about schools often include (or link to) a list of notable alumni/alumnae, but such lists are not intended to contain everyone who attended the school — only those with verifiable notability." Oh. What's this "verifiable notability" stuff? Well, Wikipedia:Write the article first addresses that. Long story short: If someone is notable, create an article for them (citing substantial coverage in independent reliable sources, of course), then add them to the article with a link. The next time someone (like me) comes along to make sure that all the entries in the list are notable and verifiable, all they need to do is check for a linked article on the person and a reliable source giving their alumna status. Or, we could just see who can use cap locks and claims of "Wiki rules" in their edit summaries. Nah. Thanks. - SummerPhD (talk) 18:17, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, but you seem to be under the impression a Wiki article must first be created before a notable alumnus/alumna or faculty member can be included on an institution's list of "notable" people, which simply isn't the case under Wiki rules of notability. To expect individual articles to be created in advance as a requisite for inclusion on a summary list is not in keeping with the evolving spirit and nature of any project.

Having said that, the vast majority of the persons who do appear on the SJSU list do have their own articles and ALL entries have been painstakingly referenced, which makes it one of the stronger university "notable people" lists I've seen. Boosterism is clearly not a significant issue (problem) here, unlike many other similar university lists. If you had bothered to follow any of the references provided, you would have discovered that most of the entries you deleted qualified for inclusion on the list under Wiki rules.

I don't need a lecture on how "Wiki works" when clearly you are the one who is unfamiliar with certain aspects of Wiki protocol and common courtesy as evidenced by your careless, broad-brush DELETION of every entry that did not come with its own Wiki article without even so much as an explanation. Not how Wiki works. Among those you deleted were numerous Pulitzer Prize winners, CEOs past and present of Fortune 500 companies including F500 company founders, numerous Olympians, presidents of major academic institutions, U.S. ambassadors, et al.

And yes, your edit summaries were rather "brief." Understatement of the week. I did not add any "new" entries, by the way. I only restored entries that were inappropriately and carelessly deleted. I do agree many of the faculty members you deleted did not belong on the list, and a handful of others in other sections as well. Londonfifo (talk) 19:09, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]


Rather than SHOUTING in edit summaries and making accusations of vandalism, I used brief summaries and discussion on the talk page. I stand by that.
After 7 years and ... oh ... I dunno, perhaps 80,000 edits, I am familiar with "Wiki rules". I prefer policies and guidelines though. That is what I use when I "inappropriately and carelessly delete" material. If you would care to debate the guidelines I've outlined rather than making bold, sweeping statements, please do. Otherwise, I am not seeing what criteria you are proposing we use for inclusion. Blue links is a well established bar, backed by several guidelines and widely used in similar articles. What "Wiki rules" do you believe refute this? - SummerPhD (talk) 19:18, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]


If you were truly interested in enhancing the quality of this project, you would go back and begin creating articles for the handful of entries that do not yet have their own articles. If in following the references provided for each of the entries you discover any of them do not meet basic notability criteria, then by all means delete, but please provide justification in your notes. Broad-brush deletion of numerous entries without providing any explanation (worse than SHOUTING), especially when most of those entries OBVIOUSLY meet basic notability criteria under Wikipedia:Notability rules, qualifies as a destructive act, can rightfully be interpreted as vandalism, and is not in keeping with the collaborative and supportive spirit of this community. In short, notability tags, for example, would have been infinitely more appropriate than speedy deletion of so many list-worthy entries. Londonfifo (talk) 19:40, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please assume good faith. While you may disagree with my opinion on this issue, you have no reason to doubt that I am "truly interested in enhancing the quality of this project".
Vandalism is "any addition, removal, or change of content in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia." If you believe that accurately describes my edits, you will need to take this to another venue as I am quite certain this is not the case. Otherwise, I must insist you not repeat the claim. I will consider further labeling of me to be a personal attack and handle it accordingly. Thanks.
In keeping with the "collaborative and supportive spirit of this community", I edited based on established WP:CONSENSUS, documented in our guidelines, as discussed above. I provided brief explanation in edit summaries, with a more detailed and guideline-based explanation on the talk page. This is not "Broad-brush deletion of numerous entries without providing any explanation".
If you would like to establish articles for the remaining redlinks, I encourage you to do so. I am not, however, currently accepting work assignments (this would, of course, eliminate the dispute, keep the entries you can support and bring the article into accord with our guidelines).
Beyond that, however, I am still not seeing what criteria you are proposing we use for inclusion. That X, Y and Z are, to you, "obviously" "list-worthy" does not seem to be a workable criterion, nor would it seem to reflect the existing consensus. Please explain what you feel the inclusion criteria should be here, how that can be demonstrated and how it reflects consensus. My suggestion is blue links with reliable sources for alumni status, as suggested by WP:NLIST and Wikipedia:Write the article first. - SummerPhD (talk) 06:42, 30 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Any other suggestions for policy-based inclusion criteria? - SummerPhD (talk) 02:13, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Steve DeBerg

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This article might be getting to long. I've tried three times to update Steve DeBerg's listing and each time has resulted in a database error. Here's the text I intend to add:

Trackinfo (talk) 17:33, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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