Talk:List of Mobile Suit Gundam 00 characters/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Factions

Okay, what happened to the factions page? Now I have no idea what the Earth Sphere Federation is, or what the heck it is they do. Could someone please put that page back up, it is severely confusing. --Ninjaclown (Talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:22, 7 March 2009 (UTC).

I agree somebody should recreate the article, for crying out loud what is happening to this page first the mobile suits section is gone and now this someone's gotta do something.--Rebelprince (talk) 23:59, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

They aren't notable per Wikipedia guidelines and were removed just as they should be. Just as with all the individual character articles. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 00:30, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

While they might not have been notable per Wiki guidelines, is it really a good idea to make an article harder to navigate in just to follow the guidelines? If the guidelines of Wiki create problems like this, maybe it is time they change their guidelines/adapt them. When I first found the Gundam00 article I was overjoyed at how easy it was to find information in it but now it is just irritating. The Gundam00 article isn't the only article that has suffered this fate. Trying to find anything in the more officials articles (such as wiki help) is hell in my opinion. Thronedrei (talk) 09:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Where are those information now? --staka.^talk 01:27, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

The faction page was mostly a regurgitation of the character list, which is why it was originally proposed for merger (though not by me). After sitting there for a couple of months with the merge tag on and the character list was reorganized, I merged the relevant parts into the character list. --Farix (Talk) 01:35, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Gundam -- Louise, Klaus, and other characters personal articles

They need to be cleaned up more. Especially the Louise article has started to suffer again. Thronedrei (talk) 19:40, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Instead of cleaning up Klaus's page it should be merged. While i'm not a fan of merging, Klaus is not notable enough to have his own page, so he should be merged.(Maine Coon Cat (talk) 03:46, 24 February 2009 (UTC)).

I agree about merging Klaus's page, but before that can be done it still needs to be cleaned up. But if you want to discuss notability tons of characters would fall under this category. I'd argue that The Trinities are/were far more noteable than the Innovators are as a whole and that they are more noteable than Andrei. But the Innovators still have their own articles and so does Andrei. Same thing can be said about Wang Liu Mei -- she might appeared important in Season One but she was never more than a "smug snake" and in Season two even after having her motives revealed she seems even less important. Thronedrei (talk) 18:10, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

I do believe Wang Liu Mei, Andrei, and the Innovators need improvement in articles but I don't think we need to go so far as to merge the articles.--Rebelprince (talk) 23:59, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand why Mei Liu Wang warrants her own article. She was never notable in my opinion. I propse we merge her article as well as all other articles belonging to characters that aren't notable.Thronedrei (talk) 09:18, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

I feel that Ian Vashti, Graham Aker, Ali Al-Saachez, Alejandro Corner, Ribbons Almark, and Louise Halevy and Saji Crossroad can hold their own as articles. Tempest115 (talk) 23:24, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Ian Vashti and Alejhandro Corner? Ian was/is at best a background character and Alejandro Corner was only relevant to the first season... Even with him being the fake "main villain" of season one he still didn't seem notable even back then. We have more information on Saji's sister than we do Alejandro. I agree with you on the other characters though (although Graham would be a borderline case since he doesn't really play a role at all in Season Two as far as storyline goes. He just seems to be a fanservice character in season two.) Anyway, look at all the articles that are left for other characters and then compare it to characters that have had their articles removed. Surely a character like Nena Trinity (especially left in her grouped article with her siblings) should warrant her own/sibling shared article more than a background character like Ian or Alejandro. Thronedrei (talk) 18:33, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I do not think Ian Vashti should have his own article. He does not have a major role in the plot, IMO.lpjz29009:11, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Merge all of them. None of these have any notability and all of their own articles are only plot summaries, which is provided enough in the main article already. MythSearcher^talk 14:41, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, so who is it that can make the merger? and who decides it in the end? I have seen Farix do some mergers but I am unsure if he is a mod or a regular member. Also I'd like to suggest that Kathi Mannequin and Andrei Smirnov, Sergei Smirnov, Regene Regetta, Revive Revival, Sumeragi Lee Noriega, Soma Pieres, Feldt Grace and Lasse Aeon also have their articles merged.Thronedrei (talk) 15:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Go for it, be bold. normally the discussions runs for a while(usually 5 days) and reach a consensus(see WP:!VOTE) anyone can do the edit as long as it is not against the consensus. MythSearcher^talk 06:55, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay I created a new section in the "character listing" for Revive Revival. The problem now however is that I do not know how to remove the original article page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revive_Revival . Can somebody tell me how to go about this? Thronedrei (talk) 20:51, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

You can replace the page content with "#REDIRECT [[List of Mobile Suit Gundam 00 characters]]" (without the quotations) and redirect the page to this one. MythSearcher^talk 07:17, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

How do I redirect a page?Thronedrei (talk) 01:33, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

As I said above, just replace the whole page with: "#REDIRECT [[List of Mobile Suit Gundam 00 characters]]" MythSearcher^talk 15:25, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Healing Care

Ok, let's set some things strait. There is a Malaysia IP that keeps adding in the same original research into Healing Care's description. First is that Healing shares the same DNA with main antagonist Ribbons. No where is this stated or even hinted at other then the two having a similar appearance. Regene states that he and Tieria have the same DNA base sequence. Revive states that he and Anew are the same type and are able to connect with each others thoughts. And Bring and Devine look nearly identical and share the same voice actor, so the two can legitimately be called twins. Second is that Healing was sent to the A-Laws with the other innovators to capture the 00 Gundam. At that time, Ribbons wasn't interested in 00 and only sent Healing because Healing asked. Also, only Revive was with the A-Laws, and only then to help accelerate Ribbons's plans. Bring and Devine didn't join until later. Also Ribbons wasn't interested in destroying Celestial Being right off, instead he wanted to use Celestial Being as a way to increase public support for the A-Laws. And finally, it was only after the unveiling of the 00 Raiser that Ribbons ordered the capture of 00 Gundam. So the statement that Healing was sent to the A-Laws with the other innovators "under Ribbons order to capture the 00 Gundam and eliminate Celestial Being" is incorrect. --Farix (Talk) 02:23, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

What are you telling us to do? Block the IP user or protect this list? --staka.^talk 16:25, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

More like guarding the entry for original research and misrepresentations. --Farix (Talk) 22:49, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually in an radio interview with the voice actor of Ribbons it is confirmed that Healing does share the same DNA as Ribbons. I think the problem here is that getting ahold of the radioshow or worse, linking to it, is almost impossible/ illegal. With Sunrise cracking down hard on even fanart of any of their shows, I don't see how anyone could use a clip from the radioshow to "prove" their case.Thronedrei (talk) 09:22, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

You're not improving the articles

Right, you guys're screwing all the 00 articles, not improving them. Now I search for information in the series and finds a bunch of pages with 50+ subtopics each with two lines of summarized text with no coherence whatsoever for who isn't familiar with the series, because someone tough it was good to merge three or more large articles in one single page. I mean, how come the factions of Gundam 00 not being notable? Anyone who watched episode 1 knows that they're notable in the series at least - looks like who merged all the articles though only about who watched all episodes up to date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.9.253.74 (talk) 07:24, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

This is probably the reason: "they're notable in the series" (most likely to be notable only in the series). --staka.^talk 19:50, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

by that definition non of the character or anything in the show should have their own articles because they are all just "notable in the series". But I think you are missing the point here. What the guy is saying (and I agree with) is that removing "faction" articles and moving them into the large main article, is making navigation harder in a show like Gundam00. Thronedrei (talk) 09:39, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Laguna Harvey

The main Mobile Suit Gundam 00 article links to this page for Laguna Harvey, but he's nowhere to be found on this page. Additionally, if you type "Laguna Harvey" into the wikipedia search box it takes you here, so there doesn't appear to be a separate page for him. It appears the Gundam 00 pages have been edited a lot, so I'm assuming this character got dropped at some point during all the editing and merging. Can somebody add this character back? I'm not enough of a Gundam 00 expert to do it myself. In fact, I'm here looking for more info on the character.  :-) Thx1200 (talk) 03:55, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

From looking at his old summary, he was a minor character and, presumably, removed from the list as it only covers notable characters. The redirect was created before this happened. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 04:39, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

What is Celestial Being?

“ The series focuses on the four mobile suits pilots of the paramilitary organization Celestial Being. ”

Is this line really enough to describe Celestial Being as an organization, even thought they're the protagonist of the series. - plau (talk) 00:26, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

There is a second sentence that explains their goal. Beyond that, there isn't any need to go into more detail. --Farix (Talk) 12:37, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Of course there is. A goal explains nothing about an organization. If Pepsi wants global domination, that doesn't explain a thing about the company. Damn, just stop trying to screw all the articles, farix! Celestial Being is the most important faction in Gundam 00 and it doesn't even get a decent explanation for what it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.9.227.134 (talk) 13:45, April 12, 2009 (UTC)

In the real world context of the series, all that needs to be stated is who Celestial Being is and what their goal is. Anything more is just excessive fancruft that doesn't benefit the average reader. Wikipedia is not a fan site nor is it a replacement for watching the series. --Farix (Talk) 14:39, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Can we have another opinion on this, because I don't think one (or even two) lines is enough. There should be at least a paragraph on it, since the factions page was merged deleted and made to redirect here. What is "fancruft" is a matter open to debate, there is no policy on Wikipedia that doesn't allow for detail. - plau (talk) 16:21, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Maybe we could add that Aeola is the founder of Celestial Being? Other than that, describing the organization as a whole is a bit problematic. CB are terrorists no matter how you look at it and I am pretty certain that the governments they fight against consider them criminals. Ali Al_Saachez refers to Lockon as a terrorist, calling him "mister terrorist" in the first season. I'd say that we could write that Celestial being is a "terrorist organization that views itself as a paramilitary organization". It doesn't matter if the four Ptolemy Meisters are the protagonists, they are terrorists and have even been referred to such in the show. But would referring to Celestial Being as a terrorist organization in the Wiki entry really tell us what they are all about? If anything the word "terrorist" would more likely make people believe that they are suicide bombers. Even Celestial beings goal to eradicate war was never their real goal. Celestial Beings goal was to make it possible for people to understand each other and communicate so we can evolve and be ready to spread out into space. Aeola's view was that humanity as a species had no future and would never be able to evolve if we did not understand each other. But Plau, would writing this explain what Celestial Being is? I'd say no... because Celestial Being in the show is so tightly tied to the four original Meisters in our minds that we forget that the real Celestial Being is really many people. The Throne Meisters, the watchers... hell even Ribbons and the other Innoveda are/were Celestial Being. Thronedrei (talk) 00:51, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

With that in mind, two lines is definitely insufficient to describe the organization. - plau (talk) 12:12, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Character articles

We need to start merging the character articles. All of them simply consist of a plot summary, and have no notability outside of Gundam 00. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 01:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

This might be true but you didn't wait for anyone to discuss this with you. Hence the characters who's articles hadn't been discussed yet or suggested that it be merged should be reinstated until we have discussed things. If not what you have just done is just vandalism.Thronedrei (talk) 00:06, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

No, they shouldn't. I was merely enacting wikipedia policey, in this case WP:PLOT. If you wish for them to be reinstated, feel free to have a discussion about it. The characters were merged because of a lack of notability. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 00:27, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Nothing had notability, you are just being a troll now. Articles that need to be fixed are is albeit slowly. While this might not suit your tastes, at least the rest of us don't have to go back and redo the job you did. You failed to include voice actor information and your summaries are a joke. While my opinion might not exactly be kosher, please gtfo. We were doing fine editing and slowly removing the articles before you came here. Your "help" is not needed.Thronedrei (talk) 01:05, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Please see WP:NOTABILITY. While these characters may of have notability in Gundam 00, they are not notable outside it. Subjects must be extensively covered in third party sources for them to be notable enough to have an article. The character articles were only a plot summary, which violates wikipedia policey. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 01:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

You don't get it do you? If you want to edit something, whether it be against Wiki-rules or what not, get in touch with the community and those that have been working on the articles before you. Maybe there is a reason why we hadn't merged all the articles yet. Most of your editing has to be redone and I consider what you did as vandalism. So next time before you decide to "delete fracking everything", at least put some real effort into your editing.Thronedrei (talk) 01:29, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Pleases see WP:BRD for why my edits were justified, as well as why reverting the character articles won't work. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 01:33, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Its people like you that makes wikipedia not fun, and don't give me that crap of how wikipedia is supposed to a resourceful, wikipedia is NOT a reliable source. Well I'm done with wikipedia. While your at it, go ruin the Cosmic Era page.(Maine Coon Cat (talk) 02:06, 7 June 2009 (UTC)).

While it's definitely true that most characters lack notability outside of the show itself, certain protagonists, particularly the Meisters, are well known outside of the fandom, or at least in Japan. The Meisters were featured on the cover pages of several magazines, as well as character polls conducted by publishers, studios and TV stations. Any Japanese youngster should be able to recognize the Meisters, or at least know where these characters are from. How is this "not well-known"? If Lelouch can be notable enough to have his own article, I don't see why the Meisters don't deserve their own. In any case, Gundam is definitely more notable than Code Geass, which in fact started off as a late-night anime. The Slimy One 08:21, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Because the articles themselves had no reliable sources showing how they were recieved, and in what other places they appear in media, the articles were a long plot summary, which is a violation of wikipedia policy. The your belief that Code Geass is less notable than Gundam 00 and therefore there should be character articles for Gundam 00 just like there are for Code Geass is irrelevant, as WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a valid argument. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 17:39, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

The problem here isn't that you removed the articles, it is that your removed them instead of fixing them. If you know enough about Gundam 00 you would know just like Slimy here that the Meisters are notable, hell many of the minor characters in the show are too. If you don't know this then you have no business editing any of these articles. As for finding this information? Since this notability comes in the form of magazines and radioshows, most of it which can only find on obscure Japanese Internet sites (if at all on the Internet), then linking to this proof is impossible. Either way you should stay away from editing if all you can do is delete everything.Thronedrei (talk) 05:17, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

It seems that you have misunderstood my intention in using Lelouch as an example. In that case, may I point you to Xingke's article instead? Xingke, or any other Geass character with an article (save for Suzaku and C.C. perhaps), has practically zero notability outside of the show itself, where even so, he is only prominent in one particular story arc. Honestly, I don't see your justification in removing the Meisters' pages so hastily on the basis that their supposed notability is not supported by sources, even though it's rather obvious that this notability could have been established if you had discussed this with us beforehand. Note that I'm not trying to downplay CG's notability here, neither am I using WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS or WP:Pokémon Test as an argument. Instead, I'm just pointing out that the usage of WP:Notability may not apply in the Meisters' case as they have the same, if not more, media coverage as characters such as Lelouch, which could have been easily established, given how frequently they were featured in magazines, games, and the other forms of media. The Slimy One 13:44, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Why were Character articles removed. They were very thorough. Gave you a very good idea of the anime and very informative. It doesn't matter if they are notible outside Gundam 00 or not as long as it is accurate and informative. I was very pleased with the Gundam 00 article. Now its just useless information of what you already know if you seen the anime. Now this aricle contains only information you see everywhere about the series. Please reinstate all the deleted character articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.180.35.157 (talk) 11:02, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Someone tell me how, I'll do it myself if possible. Ninjaclown (talk) 12:21, 13 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.72.6.217 (talk)

I would advice against doing so since stuff like that needs to be discussed first, but if you want to revert an article you need to find the original first edit that you don't agree with and revert it there. In this case you would have to visit DBZROCKS! history page, find each of his edits, go to the original article that was deleted and revert it to the one just before. Then after doing so you would have to do the same thing on the main character article page or at least link it to the old character profiles. While I agree that some inverse characters hold more value to the show than others, many of them don't and in the past many characters that held more credence had their articles deleted while characters such as Lasse Aeon got to keep theirs. Sorting it all out would be a pain, moreso because it would be bound to create an edit war which would most likely result in the whole Gundam00 character article getting locked. The only advice I can give you is that you work with what you have, try to improve the articles without breaking the Wiki rules, see if you can find some other way to make it easier to navigate and more informative without making the site look like a fansite. I've been working on an idea myself but it still needs improving. When it is done though I will present it here. Thronedrei (talk) 13:06, 13 June 2009 (UTC)