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mass Lego article mergers

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see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Lego#Request for comment on creating omnibus articles for sets and themes to discuss. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:14, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

LEGO The Lone Ranger

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Does anyone object if under Current Themes I add Lego The Lone Ranger info?TheMouthofSauron (talk) 22:35, 29 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think anybody objects,oh and by the way, I added more info on the theme. CoolCDST (talk) 00:41, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What is a theme?

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What defines a theme?Rathfelder (talk) 08:35, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Rathfelder: - A theme is any group of Lego sets with the same label identifier on them, more or less. Their website and magazine makes it a bit easier now since all their sets are separated by theme but prior to the mid-80s they were all labeled as on Lego/Legoland/Lego System and the "classic" themes (castle/space/town) are what collectors/children at the time have separated them as. Yosemiter (talk) 17:33, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I moved the technic and Duplo categories up into the main Lego category, because they seemed different in kind. I wonder if Bionicle and perhaps Mindstorms should also move up in the hierarchy? I'm not suggesting they shouldn't appear in this list. Rathfelder (talk) 19:24, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Rathfelder: Lego Themes page - Lego calls both Technic and Duplo a "theme" and should be categorized as such. They are physically different then traditional System lego but they are still building toys and that makes it far more similar to the standard themes than their other toys such as video games. Also there is some crossover since many new standard use Technic pieces to build sturdier frames. Besides there probably would have to sort out other "different" Lego such as Hero Factory, Bionicle, Galidor, Znap, and etc. I feel it is best just to leave it what the Lego Company calls it. Yosemiter (talk) 19:39, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The extremely complicated answer

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"Themes" first appeared in official Lego documentation in 1987. It was strictly an unofficial term, used ad-hoc by whoever was editing the catalogs at the time, and the "theme" to which any particular set belonged was 100% arbitrary and could change from year to year. For example, when themes first became a thing, "LEGOLAND Space" was divided into three themes: "Space Vehicles", "Ground vehicles", and an unnamed theme that would be retroactively declared Blacktron the next year. In a sense, themes are basically factions, but with less official backing (and even "faction" was never an official term used by the Lego Group).

So then, what the hell are Duplo, Technic, Space, etc.? There was never an official term for any of these taxonomic ranks. In fact, any given group's taxonomic rank could change at any time. "Boats" and "Trains", for example, used to be their own separate clades of the highest taxonomic rank, right alongside Duplo, Legoland, and Technic. Later on, however, they were subsumed into the "Lego System" clade, right next to Town, Space, Castle, and Pirates. These groups that existed within Legoland, and later within Lego System, were alternately referred to as "environments", "systems", "series", and possibly other terms, often within the same document. Of these, "System" was the only term that appeared on product packaging (as "Space System", "Castle System" etc.). The environments also became their own clades of the highest rank in 1991, after the "Legoland" clade was disbanded but before "Lego System" was created to replace it.

Now, you can TRY to make some kind of sense out of all this and make up some rules for what ranks you'd assign to what groups. For example, clades of the highest taxonomic rank (Duplo, Legoland, Lego System, Technic) have traditionally appeared in the upper-left corner of the front of the box, officially established factions have had their logos in the upper right corner (or, for Legoland Space sets, along the top edge and slightly right of center), and the "environments" have rarely been acknowledged on the packaging at all, so you can try to use that as a guideline. But that's a violation of Wikipedia's rules against making shit up.

In short, this whole article is about 99% original research and the opinions of random assholes on the internet, and not really supported by anything, and should probably be deleted. 73.70.13.107 (talk) 03:47, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well IP, that is a lot of WP:OR on your end, not to mention a lot of outright incorrect responses. Lego does and has used the term "theme" on multiple occasions, including currently at Lego Shop – Themes. It has also been a concept since at least 1978 as stated on Lego's own website here, here, and here. In fact, your entire nonsense about Space is debunked here: "With the release of the sub-series LEGO Blacktron and LEGO Futuron in 1987..." And "faction" is an official term of the Lego Group "Introducing knights and factions".

The only truth that you added is that Lego has been constantly changing how it markets its products and its own terminology. "Theme" was not the term used in 1978, but it was adopted by the company as a descriptor in the '80s to define their separate product lines. "Legoland" did become "System" because of marketing differentiation in the '90s. And by the 2000s, subthemes were not really a thing at all any more and Lego used separate marketing terms for all of them. There has never been an WP:OFFICIALNAME for a "subtheme" (if you check the history links above, they use "subtheme", "sub-series", and "factions" interchangeably) so we typically use the more WP:COMMONNAME as often as we can. However, this has led to many of the so-called fan-made subthemes were contained design themes from one product line to the next have led to both sourceable and verifiable terms that are commonly used. One example of this is Lego Modular Buildings. This has never been an official "theme" used by Lego, only by the fan community, and the entire modular house series was later marketed as Lego Creator Expert including making new packaging for existing products with the new branding. The answer is complicated, because it is inconsistent in primary sources. This is why we use WP:SECONDARY sources more than WP:PRIMARY, and secondary uses "Themes" consistently. Yosemiter (talk) 17:05, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Literally NOTHING that I wrote was OR, nor was any of it incorrect. None of your links contradict anything that I wrote. The only useful piece of information you've provided is that "theme" became LEGO's preferred term for the one taxonomic rank that remained after everything was crushed down from three ranks to one in the early 2000s. Please stop wasting space on Wikipedia with your stupidity. 73.70.13.107 (talk) 23:20, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Then add sources that do not contradict your edits and stop edit warring. Flat out stating that Castle was not launched in 1978 contradicts Lego themselves. All you are doing is going against the sourced material and claiming IT's TRUE. Also please read up on our policies about civility. Thank you, Yosemiter (talk) 23:44, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I also said nothing about "everything was crushed down from three ranks to one in the early 2000s". There was about a dozen themes in the 90s, and they had subthemes. I said "by the 2000s, subthemes were not really a thing at all any more", not that themes were disused. Otherwise, you would be arguing that Star Wars is in the same theme as Galidor or Bionicle. Yosemiter (talk) 23:57, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So far you're brought up one valid point: Castle was launched in '78, but only in Europe. Castle did not exist in the US until 1981, which is why I got confused. The rest of what you're saying is so incoherent that I can't figure out what your thought process is, much less debunk it. My original point stands: this whole article is about 99% original research and unsubstantiated opinions, and should be deleted 73.70.13.107 (talk) 00:03, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If un-bollocksing this article was even possible...

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The basic structure would look a little bit like this

System Unranked clade Unranked clade Environment Theme/Faction
Preschool/Duplo
Lego Universal/Basic
Fabuland
Lego System Legoland / Lego System Town Transportation
Fire
Police
Flight
Repair and Service
Service and Repair
Race
Adventure
Emergency
Accessories
Airport
High Speed Adventure
Max RPM
Nautica
RSQ911
Space Surface Vehicles
Space Vehicles
Blacktron I
Futuron
Space Police I
M-Tron
Blacktron Future Generation
Space Police II
Ice Planet 2002
Spyrius
Unitron
Exploriens
Roboforce
UFO
Insectoids
Castle Castle
Forestmen
Crusaders
Black Knights
Wolf Pack
Dragon Masters
Royal Knights
Dark Forest
Fright Knights
Pirates Pirates
Soldiers
Imperial Guards
Islanders
Imperial Armada
Paradisa
Aquazone Aquanauts
Aquasharks
Aquaraiders
Hydronauts
Stingrays
Time Cruisers Time Cruisers
Time Twisters
Wild West
Divers
Outback
Adventurers
Extreme Team
Res Q
Ninja Shogun's Defense
Robbers
Red Ninjas
Star Wars
Space Port
Rock Raiders
Boats
Trains
Model Team
Belville
Radio Control
Homemaker
Expert/Technic Cyber Slam
Throwbots

And honest to God, if the admins don't put this article out of its unverifiable and originally-researched misery like they should have years ago, I just might keep expanding this example table until it's better than the actual article. Scratch that; it already IS better, just less complete. UPDATE: all right, the second draft is up and it's three times the size of the first draft, including basically everything of importance from 1978 to 1991 and bits of stuff beyond. By the way, indexing all those Town themes just confirmed how crazy and make-shit-up-as-we-go-along the situation was back then. For example, the US catalogs listed ACCESSORIES as a town "theme" for a while. 73.70.13.107 (talk) 05:12, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE 2: Third draft is up and over 50% bigger than the second draft. It now includes almost everything from 1978 to the end of the Lego System in 1999. This is what the article would have looked like from the beginning if it had been written by people who knew what they were talking about. 73.70.13.107 (talk) 06:51, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merge of July 2016

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The merge from Lego Ben 10 was done pursuant to the discussion held at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Lego/Archive 1#Request for comment on creating omnibus articles for sets and themes. NewYorkActuary (talk) 02:12, 4 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Proposed merge of Lego Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles into List of Lego themes

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Possibly not notable since before isn't giving me good sources, but there's an obvi merge target. ミラP 01:19, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

For the love of God, can we remove all the un-verifiable and un-notable fanwank?

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I keep trying, but apparently "no edit warring" is the only Wikipedia rule that any of the moderators feel like enforcing here :\

The worst, fanwankiest, most unverifiable aspect of this article is the organization into "themes" and "subthemes". While some clades were parts of larger clades, the exact organizational scheme changed from year to year, and was often unclear. For example, the 1993 US catalog had an explicit separation of the Paradisa and Town environments, but the 1996 US catalog implied that Paradisa was a theme within the Town environment. Duplo used to be its own system totally separate from Lego, but is now considered a Lego theme. There is no correct way to organize this mess. 73.70.13.107 (talk) 23:53, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lego Education

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Fieryninja can I know the Lego Education when it was launch? Striker2020 (talk) 07:54, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Striker2020 this article suggests it was 1980: "SPIKE Prime will continue LEGO Education’s legacy since 1980" [1] Not sure sorry I don't know anything about it. Fieryninja (talk) 08:14, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

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There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lego Monster Fighters (theme) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 15:39, 11 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lego Classic

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Hi Fieryninja can you help me to find the sources for the development and launch of Lego Classic theme so I can create this new page? Striker2020 (talk) 06:15, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Striker2020 I haven't found anything yet, but will let you know if I do. Fieryninja (talk) 18:33, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Fieryninja what about your book did it mention about Lego Classic? Striker2020 (talk) 02:12, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Striker2020 It was published in 2012, so I think this was before the launch of the theme. Fieryninja (talk) 16:26, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lego Dreamzzz

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Fieryninja Lego Dreamzzz is going to come out as a new show in Youtube next week. Can you help me to find the sources for the development of Lego Dreamzzz theme so I can create this new page? Striker2020 (talk) 06:09, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Striker2020 here is a decent source [2] There's actually quite a lot of news about this theme because of the gender neutral aspect, so you should find some coverage in the mainstream media. Just be careful to check WP:RSP. Fieryninja (talk) 06:56, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Official subthemes

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Official subthemes like Lego Marvel The Avengers should atleast be listed and marked as such.UnkreativeFrog (talk) 20:30, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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