Talk:List of Kuruluş: Osman characters

Aya Nikola and Flatyos

@Michelle Tomlinson and Empire AS: I'm not sure whether Flatyos should be classed as a main character or Aya Nikola. Flatyos has quite a well-developed backstory including his father's death in the hands of Ertuğrul leaving him with a thirst for revenge and his love for Lena but isn't the Tefkur of a castle like Aya Nikola and is just a very high-ranked commander. Aya Nikola has nothing much to his backstory besides being the best Byzantine commander but is the Tefkur of İnegöl Castle and Flatyos follows his commands. Limorina (talk) 16:36, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Limorina, I haven't watched the serial. Perhaps in future, I'll watch it. I think that Flatyos should be classified into main character rather than Aya Nikola. Although Aya Nikola is Tekfur but has no backstory (much like Petruccio, who just instructed Titus). Whereas Flatyos has a revenge on Ertuğrul and is a great commander too (like Titus as he also wished to kill Ertuğrul for the revenge of Bisol and obeyed Petruccio). So, I'll suggest Flatyos as main character. Thank you. Empire AS ^Talk! 10:06, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

@Empire AS: Thank you for your opinion, Empire AS. I'm surprised you haven't watched it though, you edit the Kuruluş: Osman article a lot. Limorina (talk) 11:18, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Limorina, As of now, I'm watching its prequel in 2nd season and also edit that . However, I haven't watched it due to which I don't edit its plot or characters but other errors. Thanks. Empire AS ^Talk! 12:45, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Opinion

Hi Limorina, I was here to ask you about your opinion, I am planning to create a article on Özge Törer, contemplating the fact she is a freshman in Turkish industry, but from her first series she has already attained a lot eminence. Right now , I am working on the article of Seray Kaya. What are your thoughts should I create tye article? I might think it might get deleted, although there is a article on Turkish Wikipedia. What are your thoughts, if anyone is willing to express there opinion they should also feel free to express them. Thank you. Tahaaleem ^Talk 12:53, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Opinion: If you can't clearly show WP:BASIC/WP:NACTOR with refs, don't bother for now. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:03, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Gråbergs Gråa Sång Thank you for your opinion, I really respect your reply. Thank you. Tahaaleem ^Talk 13:07, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Tahaaleem, I think you shouldn't make an article yet due to the fact that the actress just doesn't have much of a biography or filmography, however, if you do want to make an article still then I would advise you to use the fact that she was a TV show host using this source: [1]. You should also have a look at the AfD discussion on Turkish Wikipedia for the article about her: [2]. And another thing, find some sources that prove she has a lead role in a popular TV show. Limorina (talk) 15:37, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

French Wikipedia

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: French Wikipedia has an article called Selçan Hatun. It claims she was a real person but has no citations proving that. It also says Suleyman Alp was a real person. And furthermore, there are mentions of Alptekin Bey and Gokce Hatun. Should we add a link to that page? Limorina (talk) 13:32, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Limorina I'm generally inclusionist about "ills", I think if they're there, we might as well use them. As with any WP-article, they may contain crap and/or not be written according to policies and guidelines, but that's the way it is. If you think they're helpful to our readers, go ahead. Per WP:RSPWP, they are not anything close to WP:RS or a valid argument for WP:N. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:03, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Sex relationships

Empire AS, I really don't agree that we shouldn't use the terms 'boyfriend' and 'girlfriend' and use 'lover' instead because Muslims don't like it. Wikipedia is meant to be neutral. I don't know if you know but Sofia and Kalanoz were sex partners, they would be embracing with eachother in dark and would visit eachother when they wanted to. They also both expressed their love for eachother and wanted to get married. I've seen the problem before on the Diriliş: Ertuğrul article when people wouldn't let me change it because they thought it was immodest. Empire AS, you also said this,

'Although, lover means one who cares and loves too and a long term relationship while bf or gf is just a sex partner for a short-lived time, mostly.'

I believe you are incorrect, I know one thing about you and that is that you are Pakistani and you most probably live there, in Pakistan, I know that is the way they treat the term, however, in Western culture, boyfriend or girlfriend isn't a short-term relationship and it could last for years, here, some people even start relationships at the age of 12, I'm sure people like Gråbergs Gråa Sång will agree with me. Lover, however, is mostly just like one person loving a person who doesn't love them back, and that is how it is thought in all cultures that I know of. Another point, in Turkish media even, because the country is pretty liberal, these sort of sex relationships are shown. Take Aşk Laftan Anlamaz for an example, there is no censorship of the pre-marriage sex relations in it, and the terms 'girlfriend' and boyfriend' are used rather than 'lover' or 'crush'. In the Wikipedia article, Muslims, who aren't allowing the use of these terms are using 'love interest' too. What does Wikitionary say? For girlfriend, it says,

'A female partner in an unmarried romantic relationship,'

and for boyfriend, it says,

'A male partner in an unmarried romantic relationship.'

Limorina (talk) 12:12, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Note that I haven't seen this series and have no insight into what happens on screen here.

This is it, or part of it, correct? To my ears, "boyfriend" sounds vaguely anachronistic, while I read "lover" to mean "someone she has a relationship and sex with." My personal reading is that "boyfriend" means much the same thing, but with a strong maybe on the sex depending on age etc.

"Lover, however, is mostly just like one person loving a person who doesn't love them back" doesn't sound right to me, I mean, Romeo and Juliet etc. Of course, "lovers" can also mean people just having sex as in James Bond had plenty of lovers. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:14, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

You said; 'They also both expressed their love for eachother and wanted to get married.' Also that 'in Western culture, boyfriend or girlfriend isn't a short-term relationship and it could last for years.' But it's not necessary that it would last for years or a short-time. The love about which are you talking is Unrequited love that is mostly one-sided. However, they both expressed their love for eachother and wanted to get married. Wikitionary says:

• For love:

  1. A profound and caring affection towards someone.
  2. A feeling of intense attraction towards someone.
  3. A person who is the object of romantic feelings; a darling, a sweetheart, a beloved.
  4. To have sex with (perhaps from make love).

• For lover:

  1. One who loves and cares for another person in a romantic way; a sweetheart, love, soulmate, boyfriend, girlfriend or spouse.
  2. A sexual partner, especially one with whom someone is having an affair.

So, I think that love is preferable to use. Thank you. Empire AS ^Talk! 13:16, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

I still don't agree with both of you but ot isn't really a big problem so I'll just leave it how it is. Limorina (talk) 13:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Ertuğrul

I think we should consider removing Ertuğrul from the main characters as he only made major appearances in 3 episodes and was in his death bed for 9. He also didn't have much influence on any events taking place besides the "Battle of The Beylik" between Osman and Savcı and I believe that was the only reason he was even brought in the show, that, and making it more interesting. Now he's dead I think we should move him to the significant-recurring section, so he should still have his own sub-heading, I'm asking this on the talk page because some people might disagree with me. Also, to make sure there is space for new characters in upcoming seasons, I'll move Zöhre to the "Others" section in "Recurring characters". Limorina (talk) 08:43, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Limorina, that's a really impressive idea, however Farewell Ertuğrul I watched the episode on Wednesday, Pakistani fans are saddened on his death, about Emel Dede (Gonca Hatun), should there be a article for her? Thank you. Tahaaleem ^Talk 09:20, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Tahaaleem, so you were talking about Emel Dede, according to IMDb, she has appeared in 10 TV series so I guess she is notable and you should go ahead with that. Do you think we should go with my idea and move Ertuğrul down? Limorina (talk) 11:21, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Limorina I would consider you idea, however Emel Dede has appeared in serials, but there are no many references about her, I mostly rely on Sözcü, Hürriyet, Milliyet and Habertürk news articles, when making article on actresses, unfortunately only Sözcü has reliable reference. I guess that might not be a stupendous idea to make article, as of now. Thank you.Tahaaleem ^Talk 11:55, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

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Cast table

IronManCap, as you changed nearly everything, I'd say you should do something to the cast table too, same for the DE article, for all the supporting characters, I'd say keep as recurring like in all the other WP articles. I would have done it myself if I had time, I'm a bit busy. Limorina (talk) 23:15, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Gündoğdu

IronManCap, if there was one thing I'm sure about is that Gundogdu was Hayme's step-son. If you remember, in DE (S1) Selcan tells Gündoğdu that Hayme is siding Ertuğrul because of this. And no, Hayme definitely did not say she gave birth to him. We can even look at this source which agrees with me; [3]. Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 12:59, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Limorina, can you give an episode where this was mentioned please? IronManCap (talk) 16:25, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, I don't know which episode (we have Netlix episodes, original ones, PTV ones, all sorts) but it was just before Gündoğdu revealed to everyone that he wasn't working with Kurdoğlu to become the Bey, Selcan and Gündoğdu were in the tent talking. Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 16:36, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Limorina, Ok, it isn’t actually mentioned by Selcan, but it is by Hayme and Gündoğdu in S2 a couple of times. It isn’t immediately obvious given the way Hayme treats everyone as a son, but the more attentive viewer will notice. IronManCap (talk) 17:40, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm sure Selcan also said it. Thank you anyway. Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 18:05, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

In the first season when Selçan had a negative role, Selçan tolds Gündoğdu that he isn't the son of Hayme but of Süleyman Shah. Süleyman Shah was the widower of Gündoğdu's mother and later he married Hayme having 3 sons from her. Thank you. Empire AS ^Talk! 05:54, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, I’ve realised now, Hayme mentions cradling Sungurtekin, Ertuğrul and Dündar at the end of s2 but not Gündoğdu. Also, Gündoğdu mentions being treated differently and ignored due to being a stepson or something along those lines. IronManCap (talk) 13:57, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

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ATV aliases

Limorina, I think it is quite unnecessary to mention what characters are called on the ATV page as an ‘alias’, as they are usually just the characters’ first names or even the same as their listed names. IronManCap (talk) 13:08, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, the only reason they are there is that I don't want to remove the citations if you have an idea that will remove the aliases but keep the citations, then go ahead. Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 13:11, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Ok, Limorina, I will move the citations next to the actors’ names in each case. IronManCap (talk) 13:13, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

See also templates

User:IronManCap, a reader will see that there are parenthetical disambiguators such as "fictional character" and "Kuruluş: Osman". Then they will see there are see also templates saying "in Turkish" (to tell us which language it is in). This is going to confuse them and therefore it is best to mention it in the description. By mentioning it in the description, we can also tell people what it links to. The bold-thing is just a clear violation of the MOS, and it just doesn't look "good" at all. It's absolutely unnecessary to bold those, if people would feel confused when being redirected, then go ahead, but there's no need if it's absolutely clear. About the links, can you please change the ones on the season articles and remove the ones in the episode plot summaries, I'm really busy and stressed out. Limorina (talk) 17:01, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Kızıloğlu

IronManCap, are you sure she didn't say "Kızık" or more likely "Kınık" (founders of the Seljuk Empire)? Limorina (talk) 16:56, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Limorina, she definitely didn’t say 'Kınık', she said something along the lines of ‘Kiziloglu’, but that may have been referring to her father’s father. I think it’s best to leave it as an unknown tribe, therefore. IronManCap (talk) 17:32, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Turns out the tribe is called 'Bayındır' according to the last episode, Limorina. IronManCap (talk) 22:11, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Confusing... Limorina (talk) 22:16, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

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Recurring characters and organisations

Limorina and Tahaaleem, what would you say about renaming ‘recurring characters’ to ‘minor characters’ for all the relevant articles (the cast tables can stay how they are, with a description of something like ‘supporting and minor characters are classed as recurring’), and perhaps having an ‘organisations’ section, including tribes, states etc. for the character articles like on Characters of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (I know I always use the MCU as an example, sorry) or having separate articles for that, maybe by modifying Draft:Places in Diriliş: Ertuğrul and Draft:Places in Kuruluş: Osman? IronManCap (talk) 14:51, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, I don't agree with tribe, organisations or other things like that because this is a "list of characters" that is already well-organised and I'm thinking about abandoning those drafts as the TV series doesn't seem notable like Places in Harry Potter and World of A Song of Ice and Fire. But I don't mind about that "Minor character" thing, we won't need that organisation-grouping-thing if we do that anyway. Limorina (talk) 14:55, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Limorina, what do you mean by "organisation-grouping-thing"? IronManCap (talk) 15:09, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, there is obviously a reason why you want to include information about organisations and tribes in a character list article (which seems to fail WP:UNIVERSE) and I think that is because you want to organise them that way so like instead of "Main", "Supporting" etc., you want it to be "Oğuz", "Byzantine" etc. Even if I wrongly interpreted it, I still disagree with the idea of adding even more in-universe information which is slightly irrelevant to the topic of the article, which is a "list of characters (not organisations or places) from the Turkish TV series Kuruluş: Osman". Also that MCU article seems (from the lead) to be an article about the fictional universe (like World of A Song of Ice and Fire), not a character list like this. Limorina (talk) 16:02, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Limorina, I meant just an organisations section near the end of the article with some brief info about members, leaders etc, like the ‘Teams and factions’ section in the MCU one. The MCU one is definitely a character list, it has redirects to it etc. If you’re not ok with this, that’s fine, it was just an idea. I never meant the organisations had anything to do with renaming the recurring characters’ section, it was just two proposals in one talk page message. IronManCap (talk) 17:45, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

I did not mean anything like you think I meant, that would obviously be a silly idea making no sense. IronManCap (talk) 22:15, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks

I would like to thank FriendofRafid and Hasanul71 for updating the info, although please make sure all grammar is correct etc. IronManCap (talk) 10:55, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Supporting#Others

@Limorina: We seriously need to think about cutting down this section like we did for DE. I think a lot of characters here could be moved to other sections to make it about 5 a season. Any thoughts? IronManCap (talk) 15:15, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, I think we should think about doing that if/when there is a season 3, it's fine now. Limorina (t • c) 15:18, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Well s3 isn’t that far off, and it does look quite crowded atm, Limorina. IronManCap (talk) 15:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

We can do it when (or if) s3 comes, IronManCap. Limorina (t • c) 15:36, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Ok, Limorina. You seem to doubt that s3 will come for some reason, there’s no reason that it won’t (Özge Törer supposedly has a 6-season contract). IronManCap (talk) 15:37, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, I don't doubt it but you never know, anything can happen. Limorina (t • c) 15:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

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Information by boran alp

When boran alp is dead 151.61.246.51 (talk) 23:20, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Waht is you select method?

E 110.39.177.150 (talk) 21:09, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Permission

Please allow me to update information regarding malhun hatun and the actress yildiz cagri atiksoy who won the golden palm awards 2021 as you can see on her instagram account Zaynabia (talk) 18:10, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Malhun hatun is historical character like bala hatun

Malhun hatun is a historical character kindly dont remove her name 103.131.214.255 (talk) 11:58, 20 February 2023 (UTC)