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Archive 1

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Fraternities and sororities which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 13:34, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Reorganized and added ref for "Going Greek: Jewish College Fraternities in the United States, 1895-1945"

Deryck Chan, Amorymeltzer I reorganized into social fraternities, social sororities and professionals, added a few groups (mostly those that folded into ZBT eventually) and added a reference. Sanua's book "Going Greek: Jewish College Fraternities in the United States, 1895-1945" is likely to be used extensively for reference and I recently bought a copy (for filling in information on the North-American Interfraternity Conference#Forme _members. There are some of the earlier groups and some of the additional professionals in Sanua's book that may not make their own page but belong here, IMO.Naraht (talk) 17:39, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

@Naraht, Does Sanau differentiate between sororities and fraternities that called themselves Jewish or had a Zionist/Jewish mission and those that were founded by Jews or had mostly Jewish founders but were labeled nonsectarian from their beginnings? I am trying to figure out if there is a line there that can help determine what should and should not be included in this article. Thanks. Rublamb (talk) 03:11, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
Text available at https://digital.library.wayne.edu/item/wayne:WayneStateUniversityPress4424/file/HTML_FULL . Discusses the spectrum, which more or less goes from Omicron Alpha Tau (which generally had Kosher kitchens in Fraternity Houses) to Pi Lambda Phi, which was Majority Jewish until WWII. (For Ex. Sanua says that all three main founders of Pi Lambda Phi were Jewish, Pi Lambda Phi indicates, 1 Catholic, 1 Protestant and 1 Jew). (http://www.pilampsu.com/history.htm gives info and basically indicates that the first 20 years of Pi Lambda Phi are exceedingly badly documented) Naraht (talk) 07:43, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Formatting and page expansion

I was able to complete a number of edits to this page, finding additional groups and formatting the page to show sections for active, merged and dormant groups. All organizations now show their Greek names with Greek letters using a formatting template, and a similar treatment was done for those groups with specific Hebrew names. I left a couple of remarks on the page asking if a native Hebrew speaker/writer could check my work in case there was a transcription error. My set of edits is otherwise complete, except where I might find additional locals or small nationals to add. Jax MN (talk) 23:22, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Primary references for these societies are either Baird's Manual (the most recent is the 20th edition) or Going Greek: Jewish College Fraternities in the United States, 1895-1945, a digital copy of which is noted as a reference. However, web searches and earlier versions of Baird's provided additional information on lesser-known societies, and are likewise noted in the references.Jax MN (talk) 21:36, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
Future editors may want to cross-reference other editions of Baird's Manual for smaller, dormant Jewish locals or nationals. Several editions of this valuable resource are out of the public domain, or not readily available online. Information is lacking on the current status of many of the Professional fraternities. Some of those listed as active on the mainpage may in fact be dormant, and vice-versa. I found an American Jewish National Yearbook series that ought to provide a number of closure dates, or cite missing organizations, but I do not have access to this onliine. I've linked one fire-walled library site, JSTOR, in case another editor has this available to them. Jax MN (talk) 22:22, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
I'm hesitant to add any of the local Jewish fraternities that crop up, even at larger schools and with longer tenure. There were many, and I assume these were amalgamated into growing national groups in the early stages of consolidation. For example, there were several dormant Jewish locals at the University of Minnesota. But where to stop? There must be dozens and dozens from the 1920s-'50s. This would lead to a much longer page... Jax MN (talk) 20:13, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
I'm not sure we have any Jewish Locals on the page. In general, I'd go with non-local or local that survived past the opening of pretty much all of the honoraries being open to Jews/Hebrews (so 1985?)Naraht (talk) 21:45, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Clarification on closures

Many Jewish themed chapters (locals and national organizations) formed and flourished in the first half of the 20th Century, but consolidated or closed in the decade and a half after WWII.[1] Why the sudden change?

The Sanua reference, "Going Greek,"[2] provides an extensive discussion on this trend, but the summary is as follows: Exclusively Jewish chapters were popular in the pre-War era to provide cultural bonding, responding to strong rabbinical and family support. Their presence offered Jews visibility on the larger campus at a time when reflexive mistrust of others was common. (I'd wrestled with using the term "mild Antisemitism" but it doesn't convey the correct meaning to today's readers.) The nation's colleges and universities were more homogeneous - WASPy, at least in the Ivy League, for example. Branches of the Protestant churches held to their own traditions and sponsored their own schools. Elsewhere there were Catholic schools. There were Black schools. Far more than today, students grew up insulated from each other. Often, Jews similarly led separate lives. This created a wary distance between cultural groups and a certain wariness of each other. While actual, hateful Antisemitism was whipped up from time to time, for the average college-bound student the only form it took was simply an unfamiliar wariness due to our not crossing paths nor working (yet) with those of other creeds or origins. Hence, the college experience during the pre-War period (WWII) was insular, but the world was getting smaller and all this insularity was about to change. Again, to summarize Sanua, Jewish fraternities and sororities allowed controlled mixing in this era of chaperones: These groups typically socialized with each other for the purpose of dance parties and dating (as did mainstream Greeks among themselves) while more casual mixing with "Gentile" chapters occurred through classes, campus jobs, inter-Greek projects and sports. Sanua points out that incoming Jewish students wanted an experience like the mainstream Greeks, but they (and their sponsors) didn't want to jump into a fully secular or non-Jewish experience. Jewish-themed or affinity houses were their answer.

WWII brought an abrupt end to this, as at the war's end, all Greek societies became more egalitarian, more diverse, and more secular.[2] 'Exclusionary' or 'discriminatory' bans were dropped from the bylaws or "unofficial policies" of Gentile, Jewish and Black organizations. Big Ten, Ivy League, and Western conference schools were on the vanguard of this. Jews continued to join fraternities and sororities enthusiastically, but increasingly, some chose to join non-Jewish nationals. As a result, smaller Jewish nationals consolidated into larger ones. At the same time, these historically Jewish fraternities and sororities were adjusting their own membership requirements to welcome non-Jews. (Nationally, about 3/4 of these groups disappeared in the decades after WWII, many to merger, a few to dissolution). Jewish commentary at the time may have bemoaned the loss of Jewish chapters, but nevertheless there was a strong current of support for post-War inclusion of Jews in the general institutions of society, including fraternities and sororities, as full participants. Formerly exclusively Jewish organizations were themselves on the forefront of inclusion and diversity, while still honoring their historical roots. Through all these changes, in a way, the mission was accomplished: pluralistic inclusion. Jax MN (talk) 21:11, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ List of Jewish fraternities and sororities provides a list of these, though many campuses had additional Jewish locals.
  2. ^ a b Sanua, Marianne Rachel (2003), Going Greek: Jewish College Fraternities in the United States, 1895–1945, Wayne State University Press, ISBN 0-8143-2857-1

Spelling of letters and names in Hebrew?

Jax MN, Where are you getting the Hebrew in the Hebrew spellings of the letters like in Beta Samach? Samach as a letter is spelled with Gerashim, but I feel uncomfortable using it if the group never spelled it out. Naraht (talk) 17:12, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Hi Naraht. In the case of Beta Samach I read that this Cornell group noted their uniqueness in using both a Greek and a Hebrew letter in their name. So when listing them, I showed both these letters and the name spelled out in English to match the form of other listings. (Active groups in bold, inactive groups in italics for the full name, but with their Greek letters not italicized.) As to Hai Resh, Aleph Yodh He, and Aleph Zadik Aleph, I similarly translated them. However, I do not speak/write Hebrew, and have noted in the meta-text that corrections to these translations are welcome.
But you asked why. Several reasons: First, for consistency with Beta Samach. Second, out of respect for the choice of name. Third, because it may aid web searches where the Hebrew characters are used. One might make the argument that an actual triangle could be set adjacent to that Fraternity's name, spelled out. But no one will search for a triangle symbol. They could, however, search for Hebrew characters, especially if this page makes its way to the Hebrew version of Wikipedia. Jax MN (talk) 17:32, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
Jax MN. I agree that for the first example, Beta Samach should be at the entry and so should Βס (though if we can find a font that gives the same height, that might be best. However, my objection is to סמיכה. Firstly, that's not the way to spell the Hebrew letter, (All Hebrew letters are spelled with Gerashim, like Acronyms, for example, Samach is סמ״ך) and secondly, we should only spell out the hebrew letter like that if we spell out the Greek letter as well, so for consistency it would be Βήτα סמ״ך , which I don't think *anyone* would expect. For the others, I'm just not sure where some of the translations come from. Why for Hai Resh, הֵא רֵישׁ? and for Aleph Yod He, you've got the letters backwards, the Hebrew shown הֵא יוֹד אָלֶף would be pronounced He Yod Aleph. And for Aleph Zadik Aleph, the middle is just a fairly uncommon transliteration of Tzade. See the image at Aleph Zadik Aleph.Naraht (talk)
Jax MN may have messed up the ping.Naraht (talk) 19:55, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
Naraht, I agree with you on font sizing, and would greatly appreciate your correction to my errors in transliterating (and the mistaken ordering) of the Hebrew characters. Clearly you know more about correct Hebrew grammar than I do; my source for a once-over pass was not a Jewish scholar nor even native speaker... Here, I'm really relying on the many Wikipedian editors to bring this across the finish line. What did you mean by "the ping"? Jax MN (talk) 20:01, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
Jax MNFrankly, what I'd do is
  • Enlarge the Samach
  • get rid of the spelled out Hebrew words
  • Use Hebrew letters if the group is shown to have used it, which is the Samach in Beta Samach and I think Alpha Zadik Alpha. (not sure on the other two.)
The bad ping was that I wasn't use I had used the U template in the same edit in which I signed it.Naraht (talk) 20:32, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
Thank you Naraht. Great - do it. I would note that, for the others, these were nevertheless known Hebrew names. However, the collegiate milieu into which they were sometimes tepidly, sometimes more boldly, entering as part of the broader public sphere may have made some shy away from prominent publication of the Hebrew letters. Or at least shy from leading with those names. As the Sanua reference points out, the intent (1920s to WWII) was to create a reasonable Greek-styled organization, with varying levels of Jewish roots, and thereby defeat this "otherness" that was making non-Jews wary of them. In modern-speak, these Greek-themed chapters were part of a branding effort. This is especially noteworthy in a time of global factions of Anti-semitism. That's about the best I can put it; to me, there is a certain nobility in what they did. I wanted to honor those names. Jax MN (talk) 21:56, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
Jax MN Yes, they are known, but unless the use of the Hebrew letters is shown even if in a Jewish friendly area like the ajc pages of organizations, I don't see it being appropriate for the article. "I wanted to honor those names" seems to me to be skating close to what Wikipedia is not.Naraht (talk) 22:44, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

List in 1927

http://www.ajcarchives.org/AJC_DATA/Files/1929_1930_5_SpecialArticles.pdf Fraternities

SORORITIES

Note, all the above societies are now listed in the mainpage list. The mainpage list has been expanded further than these 25.Jax MN (talk) 22:02, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Beta Sigma Tau

Reorganizing the page, I noted one of the fraternities that had merged into Pi Lambda Phi, namely Beta Sigma Tau. This group formed in 1948, at a meeting of Intercultural Fraternities held in Chicago that year. From the start, its stated purpose was to transcend racial, national and religious differences. Hence it was interracial and interreligious. From the start Beta Sigma Tau had Jewish members.

Beta Sigma Tau may have been at the point of the spear, apparently the first of ALL national fraternities to exist without restrictions to race, creed or national origin. In this case, it actually formed as a new group with this purpose, out of local chapters, rather than re-form from an existing fraternity. (Baird's indicates there were seven chapters established that first year, and six the next.) It is possible that some of these predecessor locals had met or organized into a multi-chapter structure previously, but given that WWII had just completed, this seems unlikely.

The fraternity was absorbed into Pi Lambda Phi in 1960.

Because Beta Sigma Tau accepted Jewish members from the beginning, is it fair to include in this list? I think so, but another editor removed it as it was not specifically Jewish in its founding. So the question is, what is the boundary line? My perspective is that predecessor groups to the historically Jewish fraternities, even those that later became secular, ought to be included. It follows that interreligious or secular precessor groups ought also to be included. This group accepted Jews from the start, and thus was available to Jews for a fraternal experience where most fraternities did not allow them. It is one example of the range of fraternal options available to Jews in the previous Century. Additionally, when it merged 12 years later it opted for a partnership with an historically Jewish fraternity, and not one of the multicultural and traditionally Black fraternities. Thoughts? Jax MN (talk) 21:08, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Beta Sigma Tau currently is a section of the Pi Lambda Phi mainpage. In researching this I noticed several other groups that have used/use the name, including a chapter of Phi Theta Kappa honor society, a confusing usage by the Tau chapter of Delta Beta Sigma high school sorority, a Towson State local with a similar name which references a Murray State chapter which had objected to their usage, the Tenoroc high school step team, and a KS State Teachers College local that merged into Phi Delt in 1968 (Apparently no relation to the national of the same name, as a Kansas branch is not listed in Baird's, nor the newspaper clipping.) If we make a page for Beta Sigma Tau it will require a disambiguation page. Jax MN (talk) 23:28, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
I think that's a considerably overreach and Original Research to include any group that had a Jew in the initial membership. The others are called Historically Jewish by a reference source. By that standard, it also belongs on List of African-American fraternities. In terms of groups to merge with, I'm not sure there was anything close to National other than groups like this and the NPHC. And I don't think any of the other Beta Sigma Tau's are notable. I know of Eight other Alpha Phi Omegas (all single campus except for a non-campus Beauticians honorary) over the years, but none are worth a dab page for Alpha Phi OmegaNaraht (talk) 23:40, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
Beauticians? Oh my. As to whether the main reference, Sanua, noted all of these or not, clearly her book was not comprehensive, but other sources cite these as historically Jewish. If a single Jew were a member, no, that wouldn't pass the bar for inclusion on this list, IMO. But I infer Beta Sigma Tau had a plurality of Jews because of how (twelve years later) they opted for a merger with Pi Lambda Phi, not one of the historically Black groups. Also, because in the aftermath of WWII Jews were on the forefront of these efforts to open up groups for interfaith membership. But I do not yet have a reference for this. Jax MN (talk) 00:46, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
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