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Films

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As the events and release date of both Hannah Montana movies take place before season 3, shouldn't they come before it, following other Disney shows' standards? Artmanha (talk) 15:36, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

After no further discussion, I'm moving the films so they are listed before season 3, in their release order, following the standards of other Disney Channel Original Series. Artmanha (talk) 21:40, 17 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's not correct to say that the release dates of both take place before season 3. One of these was released in the middle of season 2 while the other was released in the middle of season 3 so placing them between seasons makes no sense. If moved to a correct location, we'd have to split both of those seasons and since that's not possible, we have to leave the films where they were. This isn't a problem, as the events of both fall outside of the events of the series. --AussieLegend (✉)
No, they doesn,t. Hannah Montana: The Movie has its events inside the series. It changed the dynamic of the show on its 3rd season (eventhough it was released in the middle of it) to the main characters having a greater perspective and a better attitude. Not to say that the The Movie entered production while season 2 was being aired. That's why I moved them to the middle of season 2 and season 3. The only reason why I put The Best of Both Worlds Concert there is not to put the movies apart. But following your argument, thats what we should do. - Artmanha (talk) 22:05, 13 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Firstly, WP:BRD and WP:STATUSQUO apply here. You've made a bold move that has been reverted so the burden is now on you to establish consensus to move the section and, while it's under discussion the status quo reigns. The fact that nobody noticed for some time does not change that. Clearly, with no other edits having been made by other editors in the past 3 months, the article isn't being watched by others at the moment. The films section has been in its present location for four years now since it was first added,[1] so that's definitely the status quo. As I've explained above, your claim that the movies were released before season 3 is not true. Hannah Montana: The Movie was not released until the middle of season 3 so it does not belong before the season. Placing it there makes absolutely no sense. Do you have any verifiable evidence that the events of the movie were within the series? --AussieLegend (✉) 04:27, 14 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If you watched the show, you would have realised that the events of the movie are cited in several ocasions by the characters (for instance when Lilly recalls that Hannah Montana ruined her birthday party, or whenever they remember that the Sweart family visited their hometown and that Miley revealed her identity to the people there). Also, the soundtracks for both The Movie and The Best of Both Worlds Concert were released before the season 3's and after the season 2's. But who am I to argue with a user with such experience like you. So, let's leave the films there (by the end), but I say we put a small summary—like the one on the The Suite Life on Deck episode list—, where it says that the movie's events take place before the series finale. What do you say? - Artmanha (talk) 14:24, 14 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

episode query

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I have a small request: can anyone tell me which episode had Miley helping Rico with his art project (as in dressing like Marie Antoinette), plz? I'd really like to know... Visokor (talk) 08:56, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Altering episode order

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I realise this may be a series of controversial edits, but I would like to start discussion about altering the episode structure. This affects a few episodes.

  • "No Sugar, Sugar" / "Uptight (Oliver's Alright)" - I have moved this from Season 3 to Season 2. The information about this episode being re-filmed was split across the two articles and this keeps it in one place for consistency. On Disney+ and iTunes, this episode is listed as Season 2 Episode 30. A similar example is That's So Raven, where the first season is grouped by its production codes, even though the second season had already began airing before the first concluded. This would be the same for Hannah Montana, with the final episode of Season 2 now having a later date that crosses over with Season 3. This style of episode grouping is common. The season now has 30 episodes as it did when it was produced.
  • "He Could Be the One" - this is a one-hour episode, so has been labelled appropriately with two half-hour episode numbers. Again, this is how it is listed on Disney+ and reflects syndication broadcasts. However, the way it is listed respects the fact that it aired as a one-hour special, as opposed to "Miley Says Goodbye". The season now has 30 half-hour episodes as it did when it was produced.
  • "I'll Always Remember You" / "Wherever I Go" - similar adjustments have been made in the fourth season, respecting the one-hour airings but also honouring them as two half-hour episodes.
  • These changes have additionally altered the episode numbers for Season 3 and Season 4. The episode count now sits at 101, the amount of half-hour episodes produced.

In regards to the one-hour episodes being split, this has been done on previous series articles such as Friends, Adventure Time and The Simpsons, some of which are Featured Lists, thus setting the standard for episode lists. I have adopted the note for clarity which reads: "These episodes originally aired as a single double-length episode but are sometimes split into two episodes for syndication, reruns, streaming and DVD presentation." It more honestly and accurately reflects the fact that this is a half-hour show and in many broadcast situations, especially Disney+, the episodes are split into two. Otherwise, the episode list appears to be misleading. This episode list now directly reflects the Disney+ listings, which I believe has large significance as a point of reference.

The ratings graph on the episode list has also been adjusted to reflect the two-part episodes. It also cleans up the series overview table. Additionally, I have removed the listings of guest stars and other trivia for each episode summary as they are not in line with the standards of other episode lists.

I do not intend to start any arguments and am respectfully making these edits. But, could you please comment on this post before making any changes, and I'd be happy to discuss. Thank you! SatDis (talk) 02:46, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The way the No Sugar issue was handled before annoyed me for a long time as well! The episode aired literally everywhere except the US, so altering the entire episode count just seems very americanocentric… So essentially there are two different episodes No Sugar for most countries and Uptight for the US, while they are divided over two seasons and some countries likely had both aired. Which makes structuring it a little tricky, but I think the way it is handled right now is definitely an improvement… DasallmächtigeJ (talk) 12:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@DasallmächtigeJ: Thank you for the positive feedback, and I agree. I think the way of looking at it is that they're just two versions of the same episode, and that it's better they're grouped together so the information isn't split across two pages. Thank you! SatDis (talk) 13:36, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding "No Sugar, Sugar" / "Uptight (Oliver's Alright)": The episode never aired in this season. It was pulled from the airing schedule, reworked, and then aired in a later season. Wikipedia lists episodes in the order in which they aired, so it should not be included in this season.
The episode aired literally everywhere except the US, so altering the entire episode count just seems very americanocentric… - we list episodes as they aired in the primary market, which happened to be the US. As for airing "lterally everywhere"", that's not the case. It certainly didn't air in Australia that way.
some countries likely had both aired. - That's an assumption, and Wikipedia doesn't deal in assumptions.
I'll have to fire up my media server to check the other episodes but great care was taken in listing all episodes in all four seasons and the listings were most definitely correct as of the series finale. That Disney may have changed the listing format is irrelevant; we list the episodes as aired. We don't go back and renumber episode lists because some company wants to rewrite history. --AussieLegend (✉) 07:22, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@AussieLegend: Thanks for the comments and the points you have brought up are definitely valid. I will direct your attention, however, to List of That's So Raven episodes, where there is several cross-over between Season 1 and 2 airing episodes... what makes this different? List of SpongeBob SquarePants episodes is also grouped by production seasons, and not ordered by airdates. This is a Featured List and I also ask what exception to the rule is happening here? I am happy to discuss more, but I know there are other shows which don't adhere to this arbitrary "airing order" protocol.
In terms of rewriting history, in the iTunes release, "Uptight (Oliver's Alright)" is also grouped with the second season, and this has been ordered like this since its premiere.
I gather that you have no objections to the numbering system for hour-long episodes? Thanks. SatDis (talk) 10:38, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I can't speak to those other series but I can speak about this one, as I was heavily involved in editing it and making sure it was accurate, as were other editors at the time. What I said still stands, we generally list episodes by their air dates. There are reasons for listing some programs differently, but this is taken on a case by case basis.
what exception to the rule is happening here? - There is, or rather there was, no exception here. How the episodes were listed here is the normal way we list. "Uptight (Oliver's Alright)" aired between the 22nd and 24th episodes of season 3, not during season 2, so it should be listed that way. While it used elements of "No Sugar, Sugar" it was a different episode.
in the iTunes release, "Uptight (Oliver's Alright)" is also grouped with the second season, and this has been ordered like this since its premiere. - I don't remember that being the case but that's irrelevant. It aired during season 3.
I gather that you have no objections - Again, that is an assumption. If you go to each season article and look at the last time I edited them, that's the correct numbering system. --AussieLegend (✉) 12:51, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Update: Episode lists have been reverted to their original state for the reasons listed above. SatDis (talk) 03:47, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

For consistency, the consensus appears to have been:

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