Talk:List of Eurovision Song Contest entries (2004–present)

additional citations?

Eurovision.tv is an EBU source and is referenced. Given that this is a list article, I'm not sure how many more sources the person who marked this for cleanup expects... 82.24.207.246 (talk) 07:06, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Agreed. I went ahead and removed the template. Banana Republic (talk) 16:39, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Ukraine 2019

I would like to challenge the hidden text in the article which says

Please, do NOT add Maruv and "Siren Song" here. They were never announced as Ukraine's entry neither from UA:PBC, nor from the EBU. It had just won the national final.

According to Eurovision Song Contest 2019#Late Ukrainian withdrawal, On 27 February 2019, UA:PBC announced that the country had withdrawn from the 2019 Eurovision Song Contest. This means that Ukraine officially withdrew from the contest. While it is true that they never officially crowned Maruv as the representative, once Maruv declined the contract, UA:PBC tried to negotiate with the runner up to represent Ukraine, and when that failed they tried to go with the 3rd place winner (the 2nd runner up) and that failed too. I would therefore support including an entry in the table for Ukraine with no entry for the artist, song, and language, but a footnote saying that the broadcaster had lined up 3 potential representatives, but none accepted the terms imposed by the broadcaster, forcing the broadcaster to withdraw. Banana Republic (talk) 15:40, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

I have added Ukraine to the table, but without naming an artist, a song, or a language. Banana Republic (talk) 21:37, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Split the list?

It seems that due to the shear size of the list, the list should probably be split similar to what was done at List of Saturday Night Live episodes. Banana Republic (talk) 16:40, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

This list is only about a year old. Do we need it? It basically duplicates what's on every year's page. Grk1011 (talk) 17:54, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

How do we fix the headers being invisible due to a Wikipedia bug?

This recent edit made the table collapsed by default, which is nice, but now the headers of the tables don't show up due to the bug T64878. Since it doesn't look like this bug is getting fixed anytime soon, and since it's fairly useful to be able to see the headers, I think we should do a temporary workaround.

Our options are making the table not sortable, not collapsed by default or removing the first header row (which doesn't amount to anything anyway). Which do you think is the best option? JochemvanHees (talk) 13:24, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Update: nevermind. It looks like a recent commit will fix the bug when it gets deployed next week. JochemvanHees (talk) 16:14, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Why were the points removed from the tables?

First of all, I'd like to thank @Sims2aholic8: for his many improvements to this page. However, one of the changes was the removal of the number of points the entry received. I can't find the reason why this was removed, and I think that this number is useful information that is relevant to this article, so I think they should return. JochemvanHees (talk) 16:06, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks very much. Removing the points from the tables was perhaps a unilateral decision, however I felt that it seemed out of place in this list, which is principally listing the entries that have competed. Out of context as well I feel it could be misleading or confusing given the changes in scoring systems over the years which mean that a big score in one year is very small in another. That's why I believe keeping the number of points out of this article is best, as this information is readily available in the "contest by year" articles along with the full points tables. Of course this is personal preference, so happy to discuss this further if others disagree. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 07:26, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Fair point. Although, couldn't you say the same about the placement? I mean, getting 10th place was a lot worse in the 1950s than it is now. JochemvanHees (talk) 10:00, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes that is also a fair point, however I feel that it's easier to compare placements than points given it's a more consistent measure of ranking entries, and it's quite clear the number of participants in each contest to enable a balanced comparison. This is also why the entries which came last in each show have been highlighted, so it's easier to note where a 12th place finish in one year is bottom of the table but in another year it would be mid-table. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 11:48, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

"Ya nauchu tebya" in the list of withdrawn entries

@009988aaabbbccc: Why do you keep removing "Ya nauchu tebya" from the list of withdrawn entries? It is a song that was selected but didn't compete, so it belongs in this list. ―JochemvanHees (talk) 12:58, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Then include replaced Belarussian entries from 2005, 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013, as well as many other replaced entries. I put once table of replaced entries but it got removed. 009988aaabbbccc (talk) 13:02, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

The difference between those entries and this year's is that "Ya nauchu tebya" was officially submitted to the EBU and then disqualified, rather than an internal change by the broadcasters resulting in a different song. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 13:05, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps there is potentially greater consensus needed on what songs should be included in this section. I had originally removed a number of songs which were selected and then not used, but which had never officially been submitted for the contest, so that essentially this list matches the lists on the "country in contest" articles. Under this criteria many songs which were selected, such as your Belarusian examples but also a number of songs from other countries, aren't included. So perhaps the Belarus 2021 song shouldn't be included under these specifications; I guess Belarusian participation is very undetermined just yet so maybe best to leave for the time being until things are made more clear? Sims2aholic8 (talk) 13:13, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

I did some quick research on this and I agree with your inclusion criteria, however, the 2011 entry from Belarus is actually missing on first glance, but there may be more. 009988aaabbbccc's original table was "replaced" entries which was telling more of a story than just listing songs that were selected/submitted to the EBU, but did not compete. I also didn't realize that Belarus so consistently had issues selecting their song... Grk1011 (talk) 13:15, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

It's a tricky one to classify I think, because you could go down the route of including every single song that was potentially selected but didn't compete but then the list could go on forever. Say for example Switzerland 1992, whose NF winner was "disqualified" because of internal contest rules in the Swiss broadcaster, even though it wouldn't have broken any EBU rules; should we include this or not? I'm also concerned about referencing, and I think there's a requirement that every entry be reliably sourced, which could be a challenge for some potential entries. I guess if we can agree to a set criteria then that would solve our problems (for now at least). Sims2aholic8 (talk) 13:30, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Splitting proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was to split the article into List of Eurovision Song Contest entries and List of Eurovision Song Contest entries (1956–2003). ―JochemvanHees (talk) 15:12, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

---

I recently encountered this article during its ongoing FLC discussion. As I reviewed it, I found its length to be problematic; it seems much too long to navigate comfortably, and with large numbers of new entries each year, the problem will only worsen with time.

Given this, and after a discussion with FL nominator Sims2aholic8, I would like to propose a split for this list. I personally proposed two options: a two-list option that would use 1956–2000 and 2001–present as the divisions (i.e. roughly splitting the current list in two), or a four-list option that would use 1956–79, 1980–99, 2000–19, and 2020–present (i.e. 20-year chunks). We could also keep the most recent list at the current article page and move the remaining years to distinct lists; so, for example, my first proposal would produce List of entries in the Eurovision Song Contest (1956–99) and List of entries in the Eurovision Song Contest. This is similar to how List of The Simpsons episodes is split to control its length. I personally think the second proposal is better since it establishes a clear pattern and precedent, but I do not want to make such a major decision by myself and would really appreciate more input.

Thoughts? RunningTiger123 (talk) 23:06, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

@RunningTiger123: Thanks for your insights and help in kicking off this discussion! A split of this list could be beneficial and would certainly not be unreasonable given its current size. I would personally be more agreeable to a two-list split at this stage, and I would like to add to the proposal above with my own suggestion for 1956–2003 and 2004–present. 2004 was when semi-finals were first introduced into the contest, turning it from a one-evening show into a week-long series each year, so I feel a split would naturally fall between 2003 and 2004. Although not necessarily relevant to any split, it also aligns quite well with broadcasting ownership, as 2004 was the year the EBU took ownership of the broadcast rights for the contest instead of the individual host broadcasters. That said I am more than willing to hear further proposals on a potential split, should one occur at all. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 23:26, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

That's actually a really good idea – I'll admit that I don't know much about the contest and mostly picked the division point at random, but your idea makes a lot of sense. I'd be perfectly happy to see the split carried out this way. RunningTiger123 (talk) 23:33, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

I also support Sims2aholic8's modified proposal. Grk1011 (talk) 03:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

I also think that's the best idea. I do wonder what we should do when the 2004–present article gets too long, since the list grows a lot quicker nowadays than in the past. But I guess that's a problem for future editors. ―JochemvanHees (talk) 23:13, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

I would also like to say that over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision, a few editors agreed to rename several Eurovision list articles, including this one; the new title will be "List of Eurovision Song Contest entries". I thought we might as well do that while we're splitting this article anyway. ―JochemvanHees (talk) 09:58, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 15:02, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Renaming this article after the list split?

Since the list is now split in two, and the other half is named List of Eurovision Song Contest entries (1956–2003), I think it would make sense to rename this one to something similar? Possibly something like List of Eurovision Song Contest entries since 2004. Considering both lists are essentially just two halves of the same list and are of equal importance and prominence, it may be a bit misleading that one of the halves has a title that doesn't make it clear that it only represent entries from 2004 and onwards. My suggestion is to either rename it to better reflect what it represents, or to keep the name List of Eurovision Song Contest entries but having it link both to the separate list for entries from 1956-2003 and to a separate list for entries from 2004-. Zouki08 (talk) 12:00, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

I was going to say that it was done this way for consistency with similar lists, such as List of The Simpsons episodes, but I see now that that list was moved as well two months ago. I think I agree then, although I'd name it "List of Eurovision Song Contest entries (2004–present)". ―Jochem van Hees (talk) 12:16, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Good idea. That name would make perfect sense. Zouki08 (talk) 11:16, 17 September 2021 (UTC)