Talk:List of European Union member states by population

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Sorting

I undid the change in this edit by Sladen: [1], with the edit summary "try to fix sorting per recommendation of Help:Sorting#Sorting_with_increase/decrease/steady_templates, although that does not appear to be working!", because it's not necessary. That type of sorting with increase/decrease templates is for when the number following the template is an amount of increase or decrease. In this table, the number is the absolute population. It corresponds to the "Rank" column, so you can just sort on that.

The increase/decrease templates are presumably referring to whether the population increased or decreased compared to the previous year, though that's not really explained. They should probably go in their own column, with an explanation, and ideally with the amount of increase or decrease provided by the source. Then sorting on the "2018 Population" column should do the same as sorting on the "Rank" column. --IamNotU (talk) 17:20, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Poorly done

This table is very confusing. You have '2018 figure' in one column, then 'official figure' in the next, but the dates for the official figure are sometimes more recent and sometimes older than the '2018 figure', nor is it laid out in a logical way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.167.137.249 (talk) 12:32, 27 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to clarify the meaning of the columns. The "2018 figure" is from the Eurostat table: [2], which provides the ranking. "Official" figures and their sources are also given, which may differ from that. --IamNotU (talk) 23:22, 27 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The UK, and totals.

I've updated the table to use the latest (2019) figures from Eurostat. I also left a note that it includes the UK, because it was a member state at that time. It should remain in the list, because removing it alters the historical data and would constitute original research. Once post-Brexit figures are available, they can be used instead.

I've also removed the "total" figure from the "official figure" column, because it was based on a total calculated by adding figures given by numerous different sources. That constitutes a synthesis - "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources." Please don't restore it, since we can't give a figure for the total population of the EU that isn't verified in any other published reliable source. --IamNotU (talk) 16:03, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I agree on not showing the totals, but the current situation with UK included in the list is a bit misleading. The title of the article is List of European Union member states by population, so what the reader expects is indeed a list of European Union member states, not a list of states that were at some point members of the European Union when some figures were published. Best, Hbf878 (talk) 18:49, 28 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've added some explanatory notes/footnotes about it, as well as an alternative total for 2019 not including the UK. I think that should prevent anyone from being surprised by seeing it in the list. But I don't think it's appropriate to retroactively remove it from the 2019 data. --IamNotU (talk) 20:22, 28 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comayagua99, I see that the UK has been removed again, in your recent edit. As I noted above, it should be kept in the 2019 figures, according to the no original research policy; and also the verifiability policy. We can't alter historical data, or provide a list that is different than the list provided in the cited source. The article currently presents a list of the European member states and their populations as of 2019 (and earlier), when the UK was a member state. A list of 2019 EU countries that does not include the UK is not accurate, and not verified in any reliable source. Combining a list of 2020 EU member states, which is verifiable in other sources, with 2019 figures, is a synthesis.

In your edit summary, you noted: it's no longer part of the EU and it's not accurate to show it as such. It's misleading. The previous version didn't show or claim that the UK is currently part of the EU. It is clearly labeled and explained. I don't see that it is misleading. You also said: Figures and charts with pre-2020 sources throughout Wikipedia have been updated to reflect this. If you can show that there is a widespread consensus to remove the UK from lists of EU member countries in 2019 and earlier, for example through an RFC, I would be happy to look at it. However, what happens in other articles doesn't necessarily affect what happens in this one, and if people are doing this counter to the core content policies, it's not valid.

If you would like to update the article based on a reliable source showing the current list and populations post-January 2020, you are very welcome to do so. In the meantime, or until we have consensus to remove the UK from the 2019 list, I have restored it. --IamNotU (talk) 00:30, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The UK should not be kept in the table, as they are no longer in the EU. I'm removing them now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tommycarstensen (talk • contribs) 22:56, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tommycarstensen, I have reverted your change to the 2019 data, for the above reasons. There are now figures for January 2020 available from the same source, please feel free to update the article with those. Although they are for 1 January rather than 31 January, "January 2020" seems close enough, and the source no longer gives an "EU (28 countries)" total in the list for 2020. --IamNotU (talk) 23:52, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cyprus population

The article says that Cyprus had a population of 888,005 at the end of 2016. If you click on Cyprus, the page there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus) says that Cyprus had a population of 1,189,265 in 2018. Which of the numbers is correct? I suggest that the correct number should be shown in both articles. 27.55.89.74 (talk) 12:00, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]