Talk:Lilium bosniacum

Does this species exist?

I cannot find a reference for the existence of the species Lilium bosniacum. The flower on the coat of arms of the former state looks like a yellow fleur-de-lis. Imc 06:56, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Flora Europaea says it's a provisional name -- so its rank is not clearly established. There is a scientific article named "Does Lilium bosniacum merit species rank? A classical and molecular-cytogenetic analysis", but it's written by Bosnians and since we're talking about ex-Yugoslavia, I suspect could be just a paper written for patriotic rather than scientific reasons. bogdan 19:08, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Neutrality

This entry has less to do with biology than with the justification of political and historical claims of Bosniaks. --Noirceuil 12:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Yawn. Botanical nomenclature doesn't work this way. Neither the Austrian Karl Fritsch, who ranked it as a species first in 1909 nor further authors as the Russian M.T. Popova in 1981 or the Croatian (!) Ljerka Regula-Bevilacqua in 2000, who accepted it all, have been tangled by patriotism.

No critical remarks of substance are contained in the above comments, who all seem to be completely free of any knowledge on the issue. What are your reasons to believe that this is an invalid plantname? Any reasons? No. All you have is guessing, assumptions and speculations because of the plant's epitheton and the nationality of some authors who worked on it. That's ridiculous, but nothing else. Especially Noirceuils entry has less to do with biology but with politics, his addition of the POV-box has not been justified by any substantial critical remarks and thus is removed now. Please do not reinstall it without a good reason.

The Lilium carniolicum-complex, where L. bosniacum is a part of, is one of the most complicated in the whole genus Lilium, maybe the most complicate therein at all. The contained taxa have often been lumped and splitted and lumped again. The work of Muratovic et al. is a solid scientifical investigation and has been published in a renowned journal, being peer-reviewed. After about a century of a confusing amount of naming and recombining and ranking, recent results of molecular studies (I. Resetnik, Z. Liber, Z. Satovic, P. Cigic, T. Nikolic: Molecular phylogeny and systematics of the Lilium carniolicum group (Liliaceae) based on nuclear ITS sequences, in: Plant Systematics and Evolution, 265: 45–58 (2007)) seem to support it as an infraspecific taxon of Lilium carniolicum. These results are not yet confirmed, but seem to be solid, thus the article should be moved to Lilium carniolicum var. bosniacum as it already has been done in the German Wikipedia (de:Lilium carniolicum var. bosniacum). Denis Barthel 10:09, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Yada yada, Genius! Wasn´t my point. A fleur-de-lis is an Iris, not a Lilium. And Lilium Bosniacum has nothing to do with the fleur-de-lis of Kortomanic what so ever. It´s a modern day Bosniac invention based on anachronism, coincidents and error. It´s so easy: L. bosniacum is a name based on modern day Linnéan taxonomy. It has nothing to with middle age history of Bosnia. It was politics I was talking about not biology!!! --Noirceuil (talk) 14:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

And thats why you are wrong here. Back to botany, please. 84.63.197.133 (talk) 18:07, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

see also

This is a rather long list of "see also", and the relevance of most links is not obvious. Please replace with appropriate explanations in the text, or replace. Also explain why the fleur-de-lis is interpreted as a lily.

Symbolic use

The symbolic use sections appears to be well sourced, including a reference from NATO website. This edit to remove it doesn't appear to be a valid argument. Sure, the list could be expanded to include other (sourced) examples, but that doesn't mean this one should be removed. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 19:13, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Refs don't support symbolic use

SFOR ref doesn't specify which lily is used on the coat-of-arms, just talks of lily and fleur-de-lis adopted from France via Hungary. Maybe Resic does, but he's not accessible online. For now, no verifyable source about specifically THIS lily being used heraldically in Bosnia. Looks more like a modern patriotic pseudo-academic overinterpretation. Popular identification with fleur-de-lis is historical and evident; with THIS specific lily, not yet. Arminden (talk) 12:01, 26 November 2023 (UTC)