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Talk:Li (surname 李)

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"Dy" Romanization

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Does anyone know why the romanization Dy is sometimes used in the Philippines for Li?--71.111.229.19 (talk) 22:02, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't, but since [l] and [d] are both alveolar consonants, it is possible that they sound similar to people there. (Although that is just speculation, and I don't know how likely it is, given that the Filipino language seems to have both of those sounds as separate phonemes. rʨanaɢ (talk) 03:36, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

From what I can find on Wikipedia and the Internet in general, 李 is indeed pronounced that way in the Lan-nang variety of the Hokkien branch of Min Nan. There seems to be a bit of a correspondence that the "l" of most other varieties of Min Nan (from Taiwanese and Amoy to Teochew) correspond to "d" in Lan-nang (take the transcription for 'hello' on the Lan-nang page [though the "d" phoneme seems to be missing from the list of initials as of late May 2011 - they seem to have just taken the standard Taiwanese romanisation system and forgotten to change it...]; the standard Taiwanese pronunciation is given in romanised form at http://wikitravel.org/en/Minnan_phrasebook. Although I'm not a linguist at all, nor indeed a Min speaker; and I'm not sure there are many scholarly descriptions of the Lan-nang variety / other Filipino variants of Min Nan (not in English on the b, at least). Michael Ly (talk) 20:23, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The phoneme /l/ in Hokkien (i.e. Minnan, 閩南話) can be pronounced as [d] or [n], depending on phonetic context. When it is followed by a nasal vowel, it is pronounced as [n]; otherwise, it is pronounced as [d]. However, according to this article (in Chinese), this [d] sound has gradually become [l] in the past few decades. So, given that the Chinese immigrants in the Philippines are mostly Hokkien-speaking, it is not surprising (to me) that they'd use "D-" to spell this surname, which is pronounced /li3/ -> [di˥˧] in Hokkien. -- Dan (talk) 03:30, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dan, thanks for that! I knew about [l]/[n] allophonic variation before, but I must say I hadn't known about the [d] realisation being an earlier one for /l/. But now on close examination of e.g. the sound files of http://203.64.42.21/iug/ungian/soannteng/chil/taihoa.asp, it does sound as though [d] is the more 'official' pronunciation. Phonetic realisations can be so subtle at times! But thank you! Michael Ly (talk) 18:37, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, according to some sources, it's a flap sound [ɾ]. That sounds like the Japanese /r/, Spanish single /r/, the "tt" in "butter" in some US regional dialects of English. So, you can say it's something in-between [d] and [l]. To an untrained Chinese ear, it would sound like an [l]. To other untrained ears, it may sound like a [d], depending on mother tongue. Dan (talk) 01:48, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merger and naming discussions

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See Talk:Li (surname) where a second discussion has been opened on this topic of names, articles, how many to have, how to organize them. The older discussion is still going on at Talk:Li (surname meaning "profit") -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 00:07, 4 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

RFC at Li (surname)

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There is a Request for Comment concerning this article at Talk:Li_(surname)#RFC_regarding_multiple_Chinese_surnames_transliterated_to_the_same_surname_in_English. Please provide input there.--Wikimedes (talk) 03:36, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Requested moves

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Article titles must be in the Latin alphabet; this is not something with a lot of wiggle room. (non-admin closure) Red Slash 20:34, 6 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]


Li (surname 李) → 李 (Chinese surname) – If Chinese characters have to be there in the title, why not give it the appropriate title? The article is clearly about "李" not "Li (李)". There is one photo in the article about the "Lee" family. Timmyshin (talk) 22:56, 4 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Li" is the official English transliteration of "李" that is approved and always used by the government of modern China. "Lǐ" is the pinyin; but since that complicates things, I think "Li" is the next best alternative; and "李" must be included because there are several other Chinese surnames that have the exact same pronunciation/transliteration; and "surname" must also be included because this article is not about plums. - Ujongbakuto (talk) 10:05, 5 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • The problem is, the topic or the surname is not just confined to citizens of modern China. Most people in Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong with this surname use "Lee", not to mention South Korea, some people in Indonesia use "Lie" e.g. Lie Kim Hok, most in the Philippines use "Dy" e.g. Benjamin Dy (also scroll to the top of the talk page) and Vietnamese use "Lý" (while some may argue that Vietnamese are different from the Chinese, don't forget the Hoa people, same with North Korea which uses "Ri".) Timmyshin (talk) 18:33, 5 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Lee - which romanization?

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Hello, I'm wondering what kind of romanization system spelled Li as Lee, particularly in Singaporean/Malaysian context, and specifically for the name of Lee Kuan Yew. I'll be grateful if anybody can shed any light on this. Bennylin (talk) 15:12, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Bennylin: "Lee" is the anglicized spelling following the English surname. It does not conform to any romanization system. -Zanhe (talk) 23:11, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! Bennylin (talk) 17:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Is the Vietnamese Lý non-Chinese?

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Lý Bí and Lý Công Uẩn were ancestry Chinese. So excluding Vietnamese as non-CHinese is less acceptable. 2601:204:E37F:FFF1:9852:4D3F:B5F3:B12D (talk) 00:19, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

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There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Gŭ (surname 古) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 06:36, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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