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Not sure if this has been discussed before or not, but it seems odd that Max Verstappen is not included in Hamilton's "Rivalries" section, having been fairly bitter rivals for four years now with a highly controversial title battle amongst them. The same here applies for Felipe Massa, although it makes more sense including a three-time World Champion in the list alongside Alonso, Vettel and Rosberg, as this list is very much incomplete without him. Mb2437 (talk) 21:05, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Besides 2021, when were they bitter rivals? The reason that Verstappen isn't mentioned here is because a rivarly of one year doesn't justify discussion beyond what is already in the 2021 section of this article. SSSB (talk) 06:26, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
VER and HAM have clashed in as many seasons as all of those drivers, making contact or racing hard in several seasons e.g. 2016, 2018, 2022 and 2024, with Verstappen deemed by many sources to be the natural successor to Hamilton's dominance. I get that they've only had one real championship affair but I think the bitterness and memorability of it supersedes that. The public will remember his rivalry with Verstappen far better than his rivalry with Vettel, which I believe calls for its inclusion. Mb2437 (talk) 15:10, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hamilton has clashed with dozens of drivers across multiple seasons. Thats the nature of racing in a championship where the majority of drivers have extended stays. That doesn't make a rivalry. If sources exist which describe a rivalry spanning multiple seasons, I would not opposed (at this stage) but from my perspective these do not exist. Sources I have seen simply describe the rivalry lasting the one season, because they have only really competed in similarly performing cars for one season. Most of the time one driver battles past the other because they are out of place, and they are both excellent at battling, and unwilling to yield resulting in "making contact or racing hard". SSSB (talk) 15:21, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Alonso's only real claim to inclusion is 2007, with 2010 and 2012 fairly close but not memorable for their bolstering their rivalry. Only 2007 is mentioned in the Alonso section. Without clear inclusion criteria, it should be decided on memorability, whereby Verstappen should absolutely be included amongst his greatest rivals. Mb2437 (talk) 16:43, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It should be defined by the extent of discussion amoungst secondary sources, not our personal feelings. If sources exist that explitly mention a rivarly, then add a section. Otherwise, we can't. SSSB (talk) 16:55, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Of course they exist. Rivalries sell papers. Whether it’s notable in the same way as rivalries with team-mates, I have my doubts. Personally, I don’t think I’d describe Vettel as a notable rival either. Btljs (talk) 12:10, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Recent edits involving the lead section of this article made me question why is it still incomplete, given its status as a "Good Article". The previous discussion under the same topic failed to reach a consensus, therefore I would like to re-open the conversation and invite all interested editors to contribute toward achieving a consensus.
My input: I agree with the opinions of @Cerebral726 and SSSB, and with the edits of @DualSkream, the abnormal ending of the 2021 season, along with the challenges Hamilton face in the 2022 and 2023 seasons are important contents to be mentioned in the lead. Many readers prefer to read only the lead rather than the entire article, it is our responsibility to provide the article with a comprehensive overview in the lead. The current lead obviously does not serve those kind of readers. I welcome the thoughts and insights of other editors on this matter. FormulaFreak1 (talk) 09:00, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To expand on my opinion, the lead is supposed to sumarise the body. As the lead summarises the career chronologically, it should discuss (on some level) every year (even if we group 3/4 seasons together in a single sentence). Otherwise it just reads as incomplete. SSSB (talk) 09:11, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think Rosberg beating him should be made explicit to explain the gap in his championships. It only needs adding to the “after Rosberg retired” sentence. And yes, the Verstappen safety car incident is lede material and ties up the chronology. Btljs (talk) 12:02, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with both comments above. The lead should be comprehensive, therefore it should include the important elements of 2013, 2016, and 2021-2023 seasons, including Hamilton finishing runner-up to Rosberg in 2016. Me personally think this is how the incomplete part of the lead should be (might require a minor rephrase),
Securing a solitary victory with the new team in 2013, regulations changes for the 2014 season mandating the use of turbo-hybrid engines saw the start of a highly successful period for Hamilton, during which he won six further drivers' titles. Consecutive titles came in 2014 and 2015 during an intense rivalry with teammate Nico Rosberg. In 2016, Hamilton finished runner-up to Rosberg by five points. Following Rosberg's retirement at the end of 2016, Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel became Hamilton's closest rival in two championship battles, in which he twice overturned mid-season point deficits to claim consecutive titles again in 2017 and 2018. His third and fourth consecutive titles followed in 2019 and 2020 to equal Schumacher's record of seven drivers' titles, he also broke the record for most wins in the latter season. Hamilton became the first driver to surpass 100 race wins and pole positions in 2021, a year where he narrowly missed out on the title to Max Verstappen in a controversial finish. Despite another set of regulation change drastically affecting Mercedes, two winless seasons would follow until he would become the first driver to win beyond their 300th Grand Prix start in 2024. He will be leaving Mercedes after a record twelve years to join Ferrari for the 2025 season and beyond.
I like that. I’d avoid the conditional tense “would win” etc. and just use simple past tense like the rest of the paragraph. Otherwise go for it. Btljs (talk) 06:22, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The despite at the begining of the penultimate sentence is misplaced. Hamilton didn't win because the new regs drastically affected Mercedes, not the other way around. But "despite" is also Wikipedia:EDITORIAL. SSSB (talk) 06:53, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for pointing out my newbie mistake. Given another 24 hours, and still if no objections were raised for this agreement, we might have to consider this as consensus and move forward with the proposed changes to the article. Correct? FormulaFreak1 (talk) 10:46, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You can Wikipedia:Be bold in 24 hours (or now) if you want. But to be able to claim a consensus we probably want (I say "probably want" because there is no rule of what does or does not constitute a consensus) to leave this for a week, and we would need the input of several more editors. SSSB (talk) 13:06, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Re-wrote most of this within the consensus, will need checking through by other editors as this is a GA of very-high importance. Touched upon each season concisely, corrected the junior career linearity and replaced the 300+ GP stat (fairly niche) with it being his record-breaking ninth British GP win. Mb2437 (talk) 23:10, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is a source for this on simple Wikipedia if we need one. However, I just don't see it as relevant. Why is this something worth mentioning? SSSB (talk) 06:27, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-5 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Dawnseeker2000 21:15, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
Partly done: I've corrected the typo, but you'll need to provide a source for your statement. ⸺(Random)staplers 01:55, 19 October 2024 (UTC)