Talk:Lee Israel

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["Macmillan"]

The article mentions a boss named Macmillan, but doesn't reference who it is.108.6.126.177 (talk) 20:32, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You are referring to a direct quote from Lee Israel's 2008 memoir. She is referring to a publishing company. You can click here to learn more about it.

In 1983, that publishing company made Lee an offer to write a biography of cosmetics tycoon Estee Lauder.Myra or someone (talk) 00:03, 19 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing

I'm a little concerned by the sourcing here. We're relying a lot on her memoir; but she's also someone who has not led a particularly honest life. Is her memoir a WP:RS? --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 05:54, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Is her autobiography a reliable source?

Can the autobiography of a convicted thief and forger be regarded as RS? I am dubious. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:45, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In your October 13 edit summary, you say Mark Shaw’s comment should be deleted entirely from Lee Israel’s article because Mark is a conspiracy theorist. Then Lee Israel’s comments about herself should be eliminated, too, because she was a convicted felon who counterfeited letters from people she never met, and she stole genuine material from archives then encouraged an accomplice to sell them. Did Mark Shaw do anything similar to that? I restored part of his comments that were there prior to your October 13 edit. Please read today’s edit before you revert it. Can anyone else weigh in? Why eliminate everything Mark says about Lee? Why all or nothing? Some of his books are self-published, others aren’t.Brent Brant (talk) 23:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Brent Brant Lee's autobiography has been extensively reviewed and quoted by reliable sources. That puts it in an altogether different place than Mr. Shaw's material. That said, I would still hold that we should not accept anything claimed by her at face value absent corroboration from an RS. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:39, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, her autobiography has been extensively reviewed and quoted by reliable sources. Many people who have reviewed and/or quoted it say it is funny as opposed to an accurate true crime book. This article reveals she is not necessarily an RS on her own life. If you review this article carefully, you notice that without original research, it is impossible to know the truth about the circumstances of Lee’s felony indictment by a United States District Court. Was she handcuffed or merely served with a subpoena? If she was handcuffed, how long was she incarcerated before her first court appearance? Can a suspect in a federal court case post bail? If so, who bailed her out?

Those questions are not answered by an RS. When someone makes a lot of people laugh, their attitude is, “Tell me whether handcuffs and a jail cell are part of the picture, or don’t tell me anything. Jailhouse humor can be a thing. Spare me the legal briefs.” But people who express interest in Lee are stuck. Many details about her status as a felon are unknowable. So how can quoting from Mark Shaw, a law-abiding citizen as far as anyone knows, violate Wikipedia policy? Many Wikipedia articles quote from conspiracy theorists who are published authors, such as Harold Weisberg. Despite his erudition, discomfort with fame and clean legal history, a lot of anti-conspiracy theorists have belittled him mercilessly. Yet there he is throughout Wikipedia, quoted extensively.Brent Brant (talk) 00:15, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Brent Brant You need to read and familiarize yourself with some of our policies and guidelines like WP:RS and also WP:OTHERSTUFF. If you think Shaw should be treated as a reliable source you can always ask for community input at WP:RSN. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:34, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto for Lee Israel, Harold Weisberg and hundreds of other book authors who have been labeled unreliable. Maybe you haven’t done your homework.Brent Brant (talk) 06:05, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]