Talk:Lebanon women's national football team

Lebanon women's national football team has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: July 3, 2019. (Reviewed version).

A fact from Lebanon women's national football team appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 3 September 2019 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Lebanon women's national football team's first official qualification campaign took place eight years after their inception?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2019/September. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Lebanon women's national football team.

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lebanon women's national football team/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 14:37, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I will use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:18, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Immediate Failures

It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria - Y Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:38, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It contains copyright infringements - copyvio unlikely Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:38, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include{{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). - Y Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:38, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It is not stable due to edit warring on the page. -Y Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:38, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Links

No dablinks [1] Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:39, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
two links need cleanup. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:39, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No idea why there seems to be a "Registration (access issue)". As far as I can see registration is not needed to visit the websites. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 14:51, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's because it redirects to the download mobile app page, might be worth finding the exact url to bypass. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:58, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ah yes I forgot about this. FIFA, for some reason, decided it was a good idea to completely remove their full fixture lists of all national teams (men's and women's) in favour of an ad for their app (which doesn't have the full fixture list). The information is technically correct, as when I wrote it the source showed the information in question. The only solution I can think of is to resort to an archived copy, but the website is very... weird. The information is there, but it's nearly impossible to read it. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 15:19, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Archived version is fine. Would be fine if it was tagged as a deadlink too. Just wasn't suitable as it was. Ideal

Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:38, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:00, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Prose

Lede

Lede is very short. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:56, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 15:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No information on world rankings? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:56, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 15:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

no significant matches? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:56, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 15:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"has represented", bad wording. if the team is the official female team, write it that way. "The Lebanese women's national football team,[a] colloquially known as "the Lady Cedars" (صبايا الأرز),[2][3] is the official womens national football team of the country of Lebannon. The team was established in 2005, and controlled by the Lebanon FA" etc.

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 15:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not a fan of sources in the lede, it suggests that the information hasn't been mentioned later in the prose (which it hasn't). Things like this should appear in the prose later in the article. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:56, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 15:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lebanon played their first match in 2006 against Algeria in a 12–0 defeat at the Arab Women's Championship. - Not mentioned in the prose. The championship is a little irrelevant for the lede, although you'd think they would have played friendlies before this. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:56, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The match is mentioned in the prose. With the state of women's football in the middle east (at least, in its early stages) I wouldn't be surprised if Lebanon had not played any friendly matches prior. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 15:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Don't see how a "first qualification" for a tournament is particularly lede worthy. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:56, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It has more to do with the timing: for a team that was founded in 2005, playing their first qualifiers in 2013 seems relatively noteworthy. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 15:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notable - sure. Ledeworthy - I don't think so. It's hardly a summary of the team. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:40, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

While the team has never qualified for the FIFA Women's World Cup nor for the AFC Women's Asian Cup, - Whilst the team has yet to qualify for the FIFA Women's World Cup, or the AFC Women's Asian Cup they have finished in third place at the 2007 and 2019 editions of the WAFF Women's Championship. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:56, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 15:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"regular participants" is very subjective, especially as they've only played three times. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:56, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 15:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

overall, the lede needs a lot of expansion. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:56, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 15:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lede looks a lot better now. Good job. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:41, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

History

"Even so, they had to wait eight years to take part in their first AFC Women's Asian Cup qualifications.[4]"- much prefer this to be in chronological order. Something like despite being founded in 2005, the team had to wait... in the right section of the History. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

~~I don't really know how to keep all the information (nickname, foundation date, one of the first WAFF teams, first qualifications) this way.~~

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 20:53, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

" Their fate did not change, as they also lost to Jordan by a score of 3–1" - This isn't a sentence. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:14, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

- Drawn into Group B with Egypt, Jordan and Iraq, Lebanon lost 5–1 against Egypt in their first match of the tournament. Their fate did not change, as they also lost to Jordan by a score of 3–1. In their final match, Lebanon defeated Iraq 9–0, but this was not enough for the team to get past the group stages and they finished in sixth place. - This is all unsourced. You'd have to have a good source to say that they finished 6th; as realistically they just didn't progress past the group stage. Saying they finished third in their group is fine, and not hyperbole. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the whole paragraph as I couldn't find any source about the matches in the tournament. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:14, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In their second WAFF Women's Championship in 2011[9] they were drawn with Iran, - This feels weird. Not sure why the citation is in the middle of the sentence. Remember, the source is to corroborate a statement. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:14, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

the national team lost 5–0 and were knocked out of the competition - What other type of team would this be? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:14, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No info on previous coaches? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. Finding historical information about Lebanese football is very difficult, especially when we are talking about women's football. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:14, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

At the very least, Farid Nujaim used to coach the team. [2].

[3] seems like a good source to me too. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Farid Nujaim was already in the article as Farid Njeim. I have "corrected" the name. As for the source, it would be more suited for Women's football in Lebanon than for this article as there is no mention of the national team. Regardless, thanks for the source. It seems pretty interesting! Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 17:04, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

They kicked off their campaign on 7 January with a slim 3–2 defeat - WP:NPOV. "Kicked off" feels too much like journalism talk to me. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:14, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"secured a 2–0 win over the United Arab Emirates" - You have already said the abbreviation for this is UAE, so you should use it. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:14, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Rest of article

The "Head-to-head record" section seems like a whole-load of stat-cruft. Is it in the MOS:FOOTY? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:02, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It could be made into its own separate article, but it seems a bit too little for that. The men's senior team has stats about individual managers, captains, top scorers and top capped players. I don't think it would be worth it to make a separate article for the head-to-head record. Croatia (GA) has it so I don't know. I wouldn't mind removing it though, but it would be nice to have it somewhere. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:32, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it should exist there to be honest. I'd rather it was gone. I've not seen an FA with such a table. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:58, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

~~At this point should FIFA ranking be its own section?~~

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 17:20, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The "FIFA rankings" secrion needs more prose for a GA. Needs highest/lowest placements, etc. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:04, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:32, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Surprised there are so many "See also"s. Those links aren't in the article at all? Article doesn't mention the Lebanese Women's Football League at all? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:04, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

None are in the article itself, however some are in the template at the end. I have lightened it up slightly. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:32, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No mention of a stadium? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:12, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. Lebanon never plays in a single stadium, and there are no notable women's matches played in Lebanon. No tournament has been hosted in Lebanon, and the national team has only played one qualifier (for the 2014 Women's Asian Cup, where Jordan acted as hosts). Only some friendly games have been played in Lebanon. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:32, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:58, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notes & References

Ref 3 - Lebanon Football isn't an author. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:38, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ref 7 - web.archive.org isn't the publisher Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:38, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ref 8 - needs a lang tag. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:38, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

FIFA isn't an author too. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:07, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I can't do much about that, it's part of a template. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:38, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I removed that for you. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:51, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

Comments

Automated note - If you fancy returning the favour, I have outstanding GA nominations that require reviewing at WP:GAN. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these, however it's definately not manditory. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:17, 11 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

While I'm aware that this is an automated message, I still feel indebted towards you for what happened with the last nomination. However, looking at your GANs it seems that there are only snooker-related articles, of which I have zero knowledge on. The moment an article I feel I can competently review comes up, I will review it. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 14:54, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a problem. I'm working on a childrens television/football article that I could work on for GA, if you were interested in such a thing. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Passing now. There aren't a great deal to go on in terms of results, which helps the article to be succinct. Prose looks fine, as does sourcing. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:17, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 01:04, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... ~~that the Lebanon women's national football team's nickname, "the Lady Cedars", derives from the country's national symbol, the Lebanese Cedar? Source: The AFC (English), Football Lebanon (Arabic)~~
- ALT1:~~... that the Lebanon women's national football team came third twice at the WAFF Women's Championship?~~ Source: (2007), (2019)
- ALT2:~~... that the Lebanon women's national football team are known as the "Lady Cedars"?~~ Source: The AFC
- ALT3:... that the Lebanon women's national football team's first official qualification campaign took place ~~seven~~ eight years after their inception? Source: FIFA

Improved to Good Article status by Nehme1499 (talk). Self-nominated at 21:39, 8 July 2019 (UTC).[reply]

Article was promoted to GA status within the last seven days, is over the required prose size and has no copyvio concerns. The first ref verifies the use of the nickname, the second is in Arabic so AGF for that one but it's not a stretch to see where it comes from. QPQ checker indicates this is the user's first DYK so no review is required. Good to go. Kosack (talk) 10:16, 10 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I came by to promote this, but I don't see the hook fact in either of the inline sources (footnotes 2 and 3). Also, there are no sources for the information in the charts under "Competitive record". Yoninah (talk) 22:33, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: Footnote 2 reads "...with the Lady Cedars holding on to equal their best ever finish at the tournament". Footnote 3 reads "صبايا الأرز تهز شباك هونغ كونغ بسداسية نظيفة" (translation: The Lady Cedars shake the Hong Hong net six times). The implication of the nickname deriving from the country's national symbol is obvious. All national team GAs don't have the "Competitive record" section sourced: see Croatia national football team or Central African Republic women's national football team, for example. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 22:42, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Nehme1499: But neither of those sources specifically says that they're called the Lady Cedars because of the Lebanese Cedar. Without a source, it's OR. OK on the competitive record. Yoninah (talk) 22:45, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: I see, because it’s impossible to find a source stating the reason for such a nickname. I might be able to find something for the male’s NT (The Cedars), would that work? Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 22:54, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Nehme1499: No, this article is about the women. I suggest you comment out the sentence in the article for now and look for another fact for the DYK hook. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 23:04, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: Done Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 14:30, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, ALT3 is a nice hook. But while the inline cite confirms that it was their first qualification round, it doesn't mention the 7 years part. At the beginning of this section, you say the team was formed in 2005, which would be 9 years. Yoninah (talk) 22:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: Sorry you are right, I miscounted: it is eight years (inception in 2005, qualification matches in 2013 for the 2014 tournament). As for the source, we could add the one that states that they were formed in 2005, I don't think that simple maths would be considered OR. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 23:07, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: Hey, I was just wondering if you were still interested in reviewing this nomination. If so, what should be changed to make it pass? Thanks, Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 22:44, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the delay. ALT3 hook refs verified and AGF, both cited inline. Rest of review per Kosack. ALT3 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 22:51, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]