Talk:Landlocked country/Archives/2020

Clusters

I'm prepared to remove everything below the four lettered notes under the table and above See Also.

This article is about landlocked countries, the definition of which has nothing to do with what "clusters" one might collectively assign a landlocked country and/or the countries adjacent to it. The word "cluster" is mentioned nowhere until a column appears in the table assigning each country (or is it their adjacent countries?) to a cluster. The column provides no information relevant to understanding the landlocked nature of any of the table's entries.

Then, after the table appears extensive and largely incoherent coverage of a number of supposed clusters, which countries are assigned to them, intermingled with alternative outcomes depending on what would happen if we treated this country as being part of that country, etc. There's a single citation in the mess, and it vaguely uses the word "cluster" two or three times while having no relevance to the coverage here.

Another editor posted a query about this 2015, at Talk:Landlocked country/Archives/2015#Original research in defining clusters. There was no response. Since I agree with that editor, and since responses appear slow in coming, I'm figuring on waiting a week or two to see if anyone can shed any light on why it makes sense to talk about clustering and has ideas on how to make the existing text meaningful, or else I'll WP:BOLDly go ahead and remove that content. Largoplazo (talk) 00:08, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

West Bank or Palestine?

The inclusion of the West Bank here strikes me as weird. No one recognizes the West Bank as an independent state by itself, but rather as part of Palestine, which has access to the Mediterranean through the Gaza strip. Felagund (talk) 04:42, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I totally agree with you. It's very weird. The West Bank is a disputed territory claimed and partially administered by the partially recognised State of Palestine, which also has access to the world's oceans through the Gaza Strip. The West Bank by itself shouldn't be classified as a landlocked country. Kenwick (talk) 23:51, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

There is no meaningful connection between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and Gaza itself doesn't really have access to the sea (the port is controlled by Israel). There is no doubt that the West Bank is landlocked territory, is there? The article already specifies its limited recognition as a country.

As usual, we're guided by sources: I've added a few, but if reliable sources are found to support a different statement on the article then let's discuss them. Nemo 08:48, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

It isn't Wikipedia's place to make its own determination that there is "no meaningful connection" and to declare that two territories are mutually independent in defiance of international convention. The sources you supplied also make no such determination. They state, correctly, that the West Bank is landlocked, which is no different than saying Jerusalem or Illinois or Sichuan is landlocked. It's true in all cases, but none meet the inclusion criterion for this article.

As for Gaza, "landlocked" means lacking a coast, not lacking a fully controlled port. Largoplazo (talk) 11:33, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

I think every one would agree that the West Bank is a landlocked territory, but calling it a landlocked country implies that it is an independent country, or at least a partially recognised independent country, but it clearly is not an independent country. As for the Gaza Strip, since Israel is controlling its seaport, we can say it is a "commercially landlocked" territory, but is it a truly landlocked territory? I don't think so. IMO, if I can find a beach and see some people swim in the seawater, it is not a landlocked place. Kenwick (talk) 13:09, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Tibet

Unlike Transnistria et al., Tibet does not have quasi-indepndent organs of government and is not a self-declared independent country. El_C 01:35, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Self-proclaimed countries with no actual control of their proclaimed territory shall not be included. In some way, they are not even as "independent" as those micronations. Kenwick (talk) 23:39, 4 September 2020 (UTC)