Talk:Laigh Milton Viaduct

Good work

Congratulations - this is good work. I have added it to the DYK section of Portal:Scotland and the list of DYKs at WP:SCO. Ben MacDui (Talk) 10:13, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Geocache

I propose deletion of the Laigh Milton geocache section. It is not encyclopaedic and gives no information. The use of a smiley is facetious. 83.104.249.240 (talk) 11:49, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I quite agree and have removed it. Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 10:25, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Coordinates of Laigh Milton Viaduct

There were two sets of coordinates which overlaid one another. I deleted the title coord and adjusted the bridge info box coord slightly. Can anyone verify that I picked the correct bridge?Jim1138 (talk) 18:36, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I think you picked the new one, I changed it to the coords of the old one. Regards, Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 11:50, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

That makes more sense. The photo appears to be looking upstream as the debris is piled up on the far side. The stream curves off to the right and a second bridge is visible. That matches the Google maps aerial image where the stream flows to the north at that point. Thanks -Jim Jim1138 (talk) 23:33, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Emphasis of article

This viaduct is thought to be the oldest viaduct on a public railway in the world but this fact is not mentioned; there is more text about the Kilmarnock and Troon Railway in general than about the viaduct, and -- interesting though it is, the Kilmarnock & Troon's own page is rather thin and deficient.

Unless anyone has any better ideas I intend to transfer the K&TR material to that article, with a simple summary here for context, and to enhance this (the viaduct) article with some authoritative text. Afterbrunel (talk) 18:14, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

• I am not sure about your take on the exact definition of oldest ...on a public railway ....

• • The Portland Bridge at Kings Mill Viaduct of 1817–19 is believed to be the oldest railway viaduct (as distinct from a single-span bridge) in England, and the fourth oldest railway bridge of any kind in the United Kingdom. The three known older examples are Causey Arch in County Durham (1727), Ticknall Tramway Bridge, Derbyshire (1802) and Laigh Milton Viaduct (1811). The engineer of the second and third of these was William Jessop.[4]

• • • It may well be the oldest in Scotland of course. I am not too bothered about transfering text from here - just as long as the 'simple summary' doesn't diminish the article. What 'authoritative text' did you have in mind? Rosser Gruffydd 20:01, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, there is a huge amount of good material in this article, but there are some elements that detract from that, and may deter the casual reader. Here are some areas that I would wish to improve:

I was a bit surprised to find Shipway and Paxton were not among the referenced sources. In fact the first two references give "Oops, page not found" which does nothing for the authority of this article.

The article spends a lot of time discussing other bridges, and (as has already been pointed out) discussing the K&TR in general. The K&TR article itself is very weak, and this article is actually a better history of the K&TR, but that's not the point. We need to be clear (in the first few lines) whether we are describing the original Viaduct, or all three. (I believe Network Rail consider the one that carries trains today to be "Laigh Milton Viaduct".) The lengthy "Evidence from OS maps" section sounds defensive, as if we aren't really sure we have got the right location. "The new bridge required embankments on either side ..." er ... which bridge is this? We know, but the casual, uninformed reader doesn't.

Some of the text detracts from the subject matter: Consider "The Portland Bridge at Kings Mill Viaduct of 1817–19 is believed to be the oldest railway viaduct (as distinct from a single-span bridge) in England, and the fourth oldest railway bridge of any kind in the United Kingdom. The three known older examples are Causey Arch in County Durham (1727), Ticknall Tramway Bridge, Derbyshire (1802) and Laigh Milton Viaduct (1811). The engineer of the second and third of these was William Jessop." Crikey.

There are a couple of "citation needed" and "disambiguation needed" markers in the text, and some red links; these do nothing to persuade a reader that this is an authoritative article.

The word "spandrels" ought not to be in quote marks -- it's a perfectly respectable term. The stone blocks aren't "sleepers" ... 999 people out of 1000 would understand "sleeper" to mean a beam that carries both rails; they are "sleeper blocks". And the C&HPR rails aren't "plateway track", they are edge rails.

Let me repeat, the core of this article is excellent, and better researched than a lot of railway-related stuff on Wikipedia. But the above refer to the areas I would like to improve. Afterbrunel (talk) 08:02, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I have made a modest start on this. I have expanded the intro, although it is still rather clunky. Still a lot to do.

Red links are only acceptable if there is a definite intention to supply the "missing" link, so for now I have eliminated them. However the fluvioglacial one is in desperate need of a link to something; can anyone suggest a Wiki page that clarifies this?

The photographs of Craig House and of West Gatehead Farm are fine images, but I can't see what they have to do with Laigh Milton Viaduct. Can anyone suggest the logic of this, or should we remove them? The same goes for the "See also" for Thorntoun House. Just being near the railway line isn't really a very good reason.

Oh, and how did the professional couple drown in three feet of water? If we include the item we need to explain that hanging question. Afterbrunel (talk) 20:52, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't really know anything about the contents of the article but if you were to reread it, it does not mention drowning, just they committed suicide by jumping off the bridge. I would have thought the impact from a high fall would be enough. Sorry to talk about this. Simply south...... eating shoes for just 7 years 23:43, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, thanks for this. All input is useful. But they didn't jump from the bridge (and in any case a fall of 15 feet into three feet of water would hardly kill them). "They committed suicide by drowning themselves in the Irvine, near Wet Bridge" and "they had lain down in the water, for it was only some three feet deep". So it was near the bridge, not from it. I'm very uncomfortable about this item being in the article. Afterbrunel (talk) 07:17, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

I have implemented the changes I thought were necessary. Afterbrunel (talk) 18:31, 19 May 2013 (UTC)