Talk:Laconia

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Untitled

Not sure that External links in German serve any purpose. I deleted the first one (404 Not Found error). The second one has pictures but they are far from riveting. --Pat Hotorato 02:40, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm... I don't see a way to edit the first section.

Use the "Edit this page" tab at the top, instead of trying to edit the section. Nahaj 00:47, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

And there are contraversial statements made there without any appearance of neutrality.

Like what? Nahaj 00:47, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"a stalagtite cave" What a bizarre term. But I guess the people that do the main sections are allowed to invent terminology without a way for anyone to correct it.

The area in question (Mesa Mani) has a few *hundred* caves with stalagtities, two of them commercial, one famous in ancient times (Not the one famous in modern times) Pausanias and Strabo both wrote of the caves of the region.

The Mani area deserves it's own section, since it is only recently that it is split between political units. It is split into two sections, Exo Mani [outer Mani), now part of Messenia and Mesa Mani (Inner Mani), now part of Laconia.

Only if you take "recently" as meaning "sometime prior to the 1800's... And it DOES have its own section, see Mani Peninsula Nahaj 00:47, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Laconic expressions

Is'nt there a legend in which Alexander sends an ultimatum to Laconia which goes something like, "If I invade Laconia,......" to which they replied "If" and that this is of relevance in the coining of the 'Laconic' word. Vatsa 22:45, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

One of the most famous of Laconic expressions is when King Xerxes in about 480 B.C. marched on Greece. He offered terms of surender. King Leonidas at his legendary last stand at Thermopylae answered: "Molon Labe!' (Come and take it.) This, of course, predates Alexander Nahaj 00:47, 16 November 2005 (UTC) The Greek "Oxi!" ("No!") day celebrates a similar reply to the Italians in the second world war. Nahaj 00:47, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I was looking for that exact thing. Someone should find the story about "if" and the story of Laconia should start with that, explaining why laconic came into the language. Cockrell9991 20:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)Keith Cockrell[reply]

It was Philip II of Macedon to whom the Spartans replied "If" --92.236.34.72 (talk) 11:58, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What is origin of word "Laconia"?

We have a note on the later usage of the word "laconic", but what is the origin/etymology of the word "Laconia" itself? -- 201.50.254.243 11:26, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good question. Probably an old Dorian or helot word. Not sure though The Bryce 14:16, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Confused ancient history?

I do not have access to the sources for the section Laconia#Ancient history, but from what little I know, events separated by a thousand years are confused here. The text states:

Advanced Bronze Age art is found here, and evidence of cultural associations with the co-temperaneous Minoan culture on Crete.^[1] Laconia was at war with the Kingdom of Macedonia and saw several battles; at the end of the Mycenean period population of Laconia declined sharply.^[2]

^ C. Michael Hogan, Knossos fieldnotes, Modern Antiquarian (2007)
^ Sarah B. Pomeroy, Stanley M. Burstein and Walter Donlan (1998) Ancient Greece: A Political, Social, and Cultural History, 512 pages, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-509742-4

The closest analogy I can think of to this confused text in modern and westernised terms would be something like this, in an article about the history of England:

There are several texts dating from the era of the Anglo-Saxon kings. However, London, the English capital was heavily bombed in a war with Germany, whence the Normands succeded to overthrow the old kingdom.

Yes, the Minoan and Mycenian eras were as different in time from the Spartan-Macedonian war as the battle of Hastings was from the Second World war.

~~According to Cretan hieroglyphs, texts in Linear B indeed have been found in Laconia, which indicates a Minoan presence in the very early Lacedaimon.~~ The Minoan period was followed by the Mycenian (associated with texts in Linear B; I do not know if Linear B texts have been found in Laconia, but they definitely are found in Peloponnesos). All this happened very much earlier than the "classical period"; Thukydides once visited the ruins of Mycenae, and discusses whether or not the stories about its old power were compatible with the not very impressive remaints.

I think it is rather likely that indeed the area was partly depopulated at the end of the Mycenian period. I have read about archaeological signs for a bloody end of the epoch, and also about linduistic evidence, in the form of Arcadian dialects on Cyprus (where also a syllabic script clearly related to Linear B was used until classical times). However, all this was a very long time before the conflict between Sparta and Macedonia. In fact, the depopulation may be associated with the arrival of the Dorians to Peloponnesis, and if so should predate or coincide with the creation of Sparta; while the conflict with Macedonia marked the end of Sparta as an independent political entity.

I hope that someone with access to the sources may correct the misunderstandings, and instead present whatever the sources really stated as facts. JoergenB (talk) 06:34, 29 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Confused spelling, at least!

I will replace the word 'co-temperaneous' by 'contemporaneous', which is certainly what was intended, regardless of the validity of the paragraph. JohnOFL (talk) 20:27, 1 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] C. Michael Hogan, Knossos fieldnotes, Modern Antiquarian (2007)

[2] Sarah B. Pomeroy, Stanley M. Burstein and Walter Donlan (1998) Ancient Greece: A Political, Social, and Cultural History, 512 pages, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-509742-4

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