Talk:Kyriakos Mitsotakis/Archive 1

Archive 1

Selective Censorship

• @Botagozpope: Please provide proof that the following publications 1, 2, 3, 4 are slanderous and unreliable or cease attempting to selectively censor the article. In the meantime Mitsotakis' section at the Paradise Papers article remains absolutely undisputed and for a good reason.--Catlemur (talk) 09:23, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

@Catlemur: All four links you provided above state that the audit following the discovery of Mareva Mitsotakis’ offshore company among the Panama Papers list, found nothing objectionable and yet your entry fails to reflect this, leaving a shade of illegality that simply isn’t true. Please update your writeup to reflect exactly what is mentioned in the references you provided or remove the reference to Paradise Papers entirely. Botagozpope (talk) 05:00, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

@Botagozpope: Grabowski is mentioned in the Paradise Papers not the Panama Papers for the exact reasons mentioned in the article. Nowhere did I say that her actions were illegal, you on the other hand have so far simply removed the entire section without providing any sort of alternative wording.--Catlemur (talk) 10:18, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

@Catlemur: Yes, I meant to type Paradise Papers instead of Panama Papers. The reason why I removed the entire section is because it bears no relevance to Kyriakos Mitsotakis. Mareva may be his spouse, but the offshore company mentioned in the Paradise Papers leak is part of her business activities and legal in every way. She even makes reference to it in her public CV. It shouldn't be mentioned in Kyriakos Mitsotakis' wiki page along with any of her other business activities. Please remove this irrelevant section. Thank you.

• @Botagozpope: Bullshit. This affair is currently being discussed and investigated in Vouli. Since she is Mitsotakis' relative that implies that he might also be involved. Stop playing the fool please.--Catlemur (talk) 09:38, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

@Catlemur: About time you showed your true colours. Just admit that you are simply attempting to smear Kyriakos Mitsotakis by spreading misinformation and unsubstantiated accusations on Wikipedia. You assume that Mitsotakis might be involved in something that doesn't constitute foul play in the first place and you are attempting to implicate him only because Mareva Grabowski is his spouse. Josef Goebbels would have been proud. Now stop using the SYRIZA-funded media as your sole source of information and remove your totally unsubstantiated comment from Kyriakos Mitsotakis' page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Botagozpope (talk • contribs) 10:41, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

The section should be brought back.Greece666 (talk) 06:36, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Official website

Url https://nd.gr/mitsotakis-kyriakos is not an address of KM's official webpage. The specific url belongs to New Democracy party (nd.gr). Cinadon36 12:13, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Conflict of interest

Two recent editors of this article, Mareva Grabowski (talk · contribs) and Maria - Eva Grabowski (talk · contribs) have the same name as the subjects wife, and their user pages are almost identical.
The first has added links to User:Mareva Grabowski in the article, since deleted.
They have both declared a COI in editing the (currently non-existent) article Mareva Grabowski
However, neither has declared a COI with respect to this article, despite it being about their husband (assuming they are, who they say they are). - Arjayay (talk) 09:02, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Removal of COI

It seems extremely unlikely that Mareva Grabowski would post edits to her own husband's wikipedia article under her own name and there is absolutely no evidence that the user in question was her. I have therefore removed this COI tag. 215lax (talk) 04:53, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Disputed

The two last sub-sections in "Controversy" are highly problematic and biased. Both sectios have a large number of fallacies, unsubstantiated arguments and "fake sourcing". For instance:

• "the measures of the Mitsotakis government are 84.26% identical with a dictatorship". There is no such conclusion in the Oxford government report tracker (I already corrected the entry - a biased press release of a syndicate was used as a "source")
• "but Kyriakos Mitsotakis distanced himself from the statements of Mendoni characterizing her statement that Lignadis is a dangerous man as unfortunate". When did Mitsotakis himself make this statement? The sources used do not support the text.
• "Despite the efforts of Mitsotakis to keep a low profile during the lunch, a substantial group of local supporters and passerby gathered outside the entrance of the house, forming a large public gathering at a time when the country was at a national lockdown and social distancing measures were in place." No! There was no public gathering. The problem was the number of the persons who participated in the informal lunch at the balcony of the house. There was no gathering out of the house, and there is no source supporting that.

These are only some of the examples of the fallacies, fake news and misuse of sources in the sub-sections in question. It is clear that whoever heavily edited these texts does not care for the purposes of the encyclopedia, but only for the promotion of a certain agenda.Istoriodifis (talk) 11:07, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing this out. These are some pretty egregious WP:BLP violations, and I have gone ahead and cleaned up the article. The material was added by Green Duke Italia (talk · contribs), which appears to be some kind of single purpose account with an axe to grind. Khirurg (talk) 03:36, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Khirurg the neutrality that you say is in force in articles like Aleksander Lukashenko, Nicolas Maduro, or Viktor Orban or must be enforced only in article of Kyriakos Mitsotakis?? This is a good question for someone of the admins. Green Duke Italia (talk)

I fully restore the section controversies and criticism as it has been created by me and other users, the section has been corrupted by the user Khirurg (talk · contribs) obviously a cyberguard of Kyriakos Mitsotakis in Wikipedia. Green Duke Italia (talk)

Cyber-guards of Kyriakos Mitsotakis in Wikipedia

In recent days, some Wikipedia users have been systematically and professionally removing documented data about Kyriakos Mitsotakis while threatening other users who bring it back, the way they work seems professional especially today a user removed documented data for Kyriakos Mitsotakis 2 minutes after they went up, obviously they are cyber-guards and I call one of the administrators to take action against them. Threats and censorship I think have no place here, especially if they are directed.Green Duke Italia (talk)

GDI, it has been explained to you by at least three established users that your edits are in violation of the WP:BLP. As I can see by the history log and the talk page, they actually seem to be gross violations. Specific issues have been raised to you, and you have given no answers. In the meantime, you have also engaged in edit warring. Additionally, the so-called "other users who bring it back" are, actually, nothing more than a single-purpose IP (also edit-warring today) and you. Specific warnings and advice have been addressed to you with good faith in your talk page. Please read them carefully and abide by WP policies specifically pointed out to you. Thanks, Yannismarou (talk) 20:28, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Yannismarou I insist that there are cyber-guards of Mitsotakis, the specific user reacted within two minutes and remove the post from this IP (I think Wikipedia does not prohibit posting from IP), so I invite the administrators to see the issue of cyber-guards and here and more generally, no reaction is meant within two minutes unless someone is a professional cyber-guard. Green Duke Italia (talk)

Your so-called "cyber-guard" conspiracy theory is a bunch of cyber-nonsense. I advise you to stop it. Dr. K. 02:19, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Dont care the administrators will be informed and i hope someone of these to stop this annoying practise of cyber-guuards. Green Duke Italia (talk) 12:09, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

I didn't expect any better response. Two things: WP:CLUE and WP: BOOMERANG. Read them both very carefully. If you insist after that, I will give you more homework to do. --Dr. K. 15:22, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Green Duke Italia, if you want to seek administrator intervention, by all means do so. But do read WP:BOOMERANG, as Dr. K. said. Khirurg (talk) 16:32, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Searching for Tomis Adamandios Mitsotakis

My name is Helena Alde'n (Blomgren). Please help me to give Tomis,Adamandios, Adam Mitsotakis my adress and telephonenumber. I can't find him. This way to find him is my last hope. I live in Sweden. He Will be 60 years old this year. He is premiärministerns cousine. Helena Alde'n Granitvägen 21 183 63 Täby Sweden Helena.alden@live.se 0046 736 49 82 85 Please help me to find him! Best regards Helena Alde'n 85.195.36.66 (talk) 10:24, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

New topic in controversy section: declining press freedom

This week, a report resulting from a large and serious investigation of press freedom in Greece was released and widely discussed in reliable media (e.g. https://www.politico.eu/article/greek-media-under-threat-says-report/). Greece also fell five places in the World Press Freedom Index in 2021 as compared to 2020. There is extensive coverage directly linking the Mitsotakis-government to this marked decline in press freedom in Greece. Therefore, I think this should be added to the controversies section. 82.176.221.176 (talk) 05:33, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

The source is unreliable. Press freedom index is puplished by RSF (Reporters Without Borders), an NGO which is repeatedly denying to publish the qualitative particulars of its research. Also, the ranking of countries is problematic. For example, in position 34 there's Guinea which is ruled by a millitary junta(!) (Lieutenant Colonel Mamady Doumbouya seized control in 2020), in position 81 there's the so called "Nothern Cyprus", a Turkish puppet state in the occupied territory of Cyprus. Turkey’s increasing pressure is negatively affecting press freedom and freedom of expression. Cases are being brought against journalists who criticize the Turkish government and direct interference in editorial content is not uncommon. An opposition journalist was denied entry to Turkey, and another was fired from a TV channel after he criticized Turkish policies.

Greece is not a millitary junta. Greece is not a puppet state controlled by Erdogan. George Salapates (talk) 11:36, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

It is so serious that has dictatorships and occupation zones of a EU state above Greece.This is a report from a NGO.Its ridiculous to even use it as a source. Kostankon (talk) 11:52, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Relations with the extreme right

This section is quite misleading as written, as it implies that Kyriakos Mitsotakis recruited neo-nazis to New Democracy. The three alleged "neo-nazis", Adonis Georgiadis, Makis Voridis and Thanos Plevris all resigned from the populist (but not neo-nazi) LA.O.S. in 2012 and joined New Democracy under the leadership of Antonis Samaras. The first two served in a coalition government between the conservative New Democracy, the socialist PASOK and the Marxist Democratic Left. All three are elected members of the Greek Parliament, and actively opposed the the neo-nazi [Dawn] party, have publicly denounced antisemitism and are supporters of Israel.

I am Greek and I can honestly confirm the section was completely correct. Plevris has literally called for execution of immigrants and Georgiadis sold books denying the holocaust. Στάλιν και παραλλαγή (talk) 07:16, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

That is a fake as am a Jew.The Health Minister never said about executions it isnt even his ministry to have a saying.Lastly for the last fake that Georiadis is a denier he has even went to the Holocaust monument https://twitter.com/adonisgeorgiadi/status/654254166974595072 .The last thing we want is propaganda in Wikipedia. Kostankon (talk) 11:40, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Dishonorable breaking of promise

Need to add in Controversies his dishonorable breaking of his promise towards the President of Turkey. 176.55.143.122 (talk) 15:15, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

What insane thing we will read here.PM has honored its word in every diplomatic deal if Turkey doesn't want the Greek Minister its his own issue https://www.reuters.com/world/turkeys-erdogan-says-greek-pm-mitsotakis-no-longer-exists-him-2022-05-23/ Kostankon (talk) 11:43, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

New section needed

Current scandal of tapping of opponent’s phone should be added. Egeymi (talk) 14:25, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

There is no scandal this issue has been closed. Kostankon (talk) 11:45, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 September 2022

Please remove paragraph 3 of the introduction

Specifically: "During Mitsotakis's rule, Greece has experienced a democratic backsliding and a heightened corruption" This phrase should be removed as it is misleading. the word "rule" misleads giving the impression that the democratically elected PM is a ruler. Reference 1 is just an opinion article and thus not solid to support the claim.

The same seems to be for "human rights violations,[5][6]" where 5 and 6 are opinion articles

The same goes for: "and was marred by the Novartis corruption scandal[7][8] and the 2022 wiretapping scandal.[9]" Again, those are allegations for which the person was not found to be guilty by justice and opinion articles are used as facts. Afs930 (talk) 19:40, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

"Human rights violations" should be romoved, there're no official accusations of such thing neither from EU nor the UN. The only statments/accusations of pushbacks and violation of human rights come from the Turkish Gov. or NGOs. Specifically, NGOs operating within Aegean Region and Evros Region are accused of espionage. They were caught photographing and sketching defense installations back in 2019-2021. George Salapates (talk) 08:37, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Mostly not done, has significant sourcing. I did however modify "rule" to "term as PM". --Mvqr (talk) 10:40, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Do you really consider a segment written by a user which used the word "rule" as reliable? It definitely requires further investigation of whether it should be kept there.

All the sources are opinion articles. Are encyclopedias written based on opinion articles? I'd like to see sources that state decisions from national and international courts on those matters. Afs930 (talk) 13:09, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Delete Request on paragraph 3 of the Introduction

During Mitsotakis's term as PM, Greece has experienced a democratic backsliding and a heightened corruption, with a drastic deterioration of freedom of the press, human rights violations, and was marred by the Novartis corruption scandal and the 2022 wiretapping scandal.... This is outrageous!An elected PM has democratic backliding?Based on what?Human rights violations?Greece is not a Junta but a EU state. Marred by Novartis?His own government has asked reparations.The previous government made political persecutions for the novartis scandal to 10 politicians for it at party members of ND and the socialist party PASOK.All have been proven innocent! Sources: https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/greece-files-214-million-euro-bribery-suit-against-novartis https://www.kathimerini.gr/politics/561995440/apallachthike-o-andr-loverdos-gia-tin-ypothesi-novartis/ Last for the so called..wiretapping scandal it has been proven that the Greek Secret Services checked a politician with a licence by the Prosecutor's Office and NOT by the PM permission.Source:https://www.iefimerida.gr/politiki/eyp-parakoloythiseis-eisaggeleas-blahoy-eleghos This section is misleading,unfair and with no sources.Is this an encyclopedia site or an ideological exhibition site of some users??? Please correct the introduction.I hopefully read the rest and don't read any misleading info again on the current Greek PM. Kostankon (talk) 12:22, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

•  Not done. Unclear what changes are required to be made. Please put in the format "change X to Y" and be sure to provide reliable sources for any change. Black Kite (talk) 18:14, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

• The section on press freedom appears to be well sourced, btw. Black Kite (talk) 18:15, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Mitsotakis supporters are really mad because the latest scandals got covered by the foreign press, so they can't call the criticism as leftist propaganda anymore.--Catlemur (talk) 18:05, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Lol what scandal?The district attorney gave the green light.As i see in the site its all about politics.You don't like him but his the Greek PM so some respect for God's Shake. Kostankon (talk) 12:03, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2022

In the first section of the article the following part is based on opinion articles, often not more than one.

"During Mitsotakis' term as PM, Greece has experienced a democratic backsliding and heightened corruption,[1] with a drastic[2] deterioration of freedom of the press,[3][4] human rights violations,[5][6] and was marred by the Novartis corruption scandal[7][8] and the 2022 wiretapping scandal.[9]"

For example it uses this: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/22/opinion/greece-mitsotakis-predator-spyware.html Bonald21 (talk) 12:14, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. RealAspects (talk) 15:21, 18 December 2022 (UTC)