Talk:Ktav Ashuri

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ktav Ashuri article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Ancient Near East Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ancient Near East, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ancient Near East related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ancient Near EastWikipedia:WikiProject Ancient Near EastTemplate:WikiProject Ancient Near EastAncient Near East articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Assyria Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Assyria, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Assyrian-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.AssyriaWikipedia:WikiProject AssyriaTemplate:WikiProject AssyriaAssyrian articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Bible Mid‑importance

	Bible portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bible, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Bible on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BibleWikipedia:WikiProject BibleTemplate:WikiProject BibleBible articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Judaism High‑importance

	Judaism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Judaism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Judaism-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JudaismWikipedia:WikiProject JudaismTemplate:WikiProject JudaismJudaism articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Writing systems Low‑importance

	Writing portal This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Writing systems, a WikiProject interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to writing systems on Wikipedia. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project’s talk page.Writing systemsWikipedia:WikiProject Writing systemsTemplate:WikiProject Writing systemsWriting system articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Hebrew languages (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hebrew languages, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Hebrew languagesWikipedia:WikiProject Hebrew languagesTemplate:WikiProject Hebrew languagesHebrew languages articles

Merger with "History of the Hebrew alphabet"

Oppose, since the article "Ashuri script" (Ktav Ashuri) defines a well-known script of writing known academically as "Ashurit" ("Assyrian" script"). Any histories of this script should be written or added here. As for the history of the Hebrew alphabet, its title would include the "Paleo-Hebrew alphabet," another form of the "Hebrew alphabet," which is a different script altogether used in writing.Davidbena (talk) 21:44, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't understand, are you looking at the same page? The article states up front that "Ktav Ashuri" is simply another name for the Hebrew alphabet. If you are of the opinion that there is a difference between the "Ashuri script" and the "Hebrew alphabet", perhaps you should edit the article to reflect this? Ideally based on some kind of reference? --dab (𒁳) 09:12, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My friend, the reason for this confusion is because there are actually TWO meanings in modern-day usage for the words "Hebrew alphabet." The modern Hebrew script (such as what I type here: א - ב - ג - ד - ה - ו - ז - ח) is called "Hebrew," when, in rabbinic teaching, it is NOT Hebrew at all, but "Ashurit"! But what can we do, since that is the name by which our Modern Hebrew alphabet is now called. The rabbinic view (described by the rabbinic authorities of all ages, as well as explained in the Babylonian Talmud and in the Jerusalem Talmud) is that true or bona fide Hebrew is the Paleo-Hebrew script. So, you see, in this article it is good and helpful to scholars to make this distinction.Davidbena (talk) 10:35, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support merge. I see Davidbena's point, but there is already significantly overlap as History of the Hebrew alphabet#Talmudic views section already discussed in some detail the Ktav Ashuri, and hence there is significant overlap. Scholars aren't so precious that they will only read content if it is on a page labelled Ktav Ashuri rather than in a section named Ktav Ashuri on a history-focussed page. Note that merges do leave redirects behind. Klbrain (talk) 14:13, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Seagull123: thanks for the rating; any view on the merge proposal? Klbrain (talk) 21:32, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Klbrain: I don't know enough about this topic to be able to give an opinion on the proposed merge, sorry. Seagull123 Φ 00:31, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Duplication

As is made clear in the first sentence, "Ktav Ashuri" is simply the Hebrew name for the Hebrew alphabet. So this is patently a scope duplication with Hebrew alphabet, or arguably History of the Hebrew alphabet. Beyond that, it's a {{dictdef}} entry on a Hebrew phrase meaning "Hebrew alphabet". --dab (𒁳) 09:10, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

dab, Thanks for your comment. I think the major difference between these two articles, although they both refer to the same script of Modern Hebrew, is that one article treats specifically about the old term (Ashurit) formerly used to describe this script, whereas the other article (i.e. Hebrew alphabet) speaks on its modern-day designation (now recognized by all) and its general usage, development and history. It's like having an article entitled Canaan (the old name for the country), and also a separate article entitled Land of Israel or Palestine (region). All refer to the SAME country, but we do not call these "duplicates." It is because each article has got its different levels of emphasis and historical scope.Davidbena (talk) 10:53, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]