Talk:Kodagu district

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2005

This article is full of archaic POV from the 1911 Britannica and badly needs updating - MPF 11:06, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've done a partial rewrite. Still need to sort out or check;

some of the geography, especially the flora and fauna; this seems to be somewhat unlikely, maybe based on the possible condition of the area a century ago?
history, probably still is from the original 1911
the non-Kodava communities

Imc 16:22, 26 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Map link

I think there ought to be two links to maps. The new link points to a map that is very unreadble on my browser. --BostonMA 21:38, 27 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In connection with the map of kodagu taluka wise, i have such a map from the karnataka state small industries corporation website. can i upload the same ? i dont think this should be copyright infringement.203.199.21.59 04:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Coorg or Kodagu??

You KannadigasKodaga State your full name address and we can meet

Vandalism

Hi, This article is being vandalised on daily basis, the anon ip has been already twiced warned and again today i left the msg on his talk page. if vandalism keeps continuing we will have to report the matter to admin.

Also this article needs major clean up, lets have a discussion. btw Sham do you live in Coorg?? --Sartaj beary 21:54, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

State of Coorg

Hello. My apologies for not making myself aware that this talk page was being used, before making recent changes. I've only got enough time just now to comment on the 'State of Coorg' section, which I removed yesterday. Previously, I removed the history section, because someone else had already created another History of Kodagu page with the same content. The historic State of Coorg is history, and it belongs there. However, I put in mention of the current autonomy movement. If someone can provide enough material to make it a separate section, then please do so. Imc 07:17, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To add to the confusion, all the state govt. sites call the district as medikere, neither coorg nor kodagu. Can anyone tell us if the name is officially changed ?Arunk17 05:02, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No. It is not changed, not even unofficially. It is the lack of knowledge that makes people call it Madikeri. Madikeri is the district HQ -- Wikicheng 04:50, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Origins of Kodavas

I've twice recently removed the suggestions that Kodavas may have originated in the Middle East or with the Greeks. Several other theories exist, most with little evidence. There is a little evidence for the Middle East origin and it could reasonably go in if a clear source stating the evidence was quoted. There is no evidence that I know of for the Alexander's army theory, except repeated conjectures that keep floating round the internet. As far as I can make out, it is just somebody's fancy and probably originate in those Kodava who would like to think of themselves as a little bit European. The unsubstantiated theories have no place anywhere with encyclopaedic pretensions (unless they are examples of thinking without evidence). Imc 22:08, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We do not care what you have removed, however, fact remains

No I have seen Kodavas who were embarrassed to know that they could have European/Greek bloodline as they declare with no uncertain terms that they are the original inhabitants of India and the coorg land. So it is wrong to say it is somebody's fancy but a recent research has seen similarities between few traditional Greek and Kodava words like Okka for family and Aine Mane for a traditional family home.

Etymology

The DED seems to suggest that the name "Kodagu" possibly has some connection with "west" (The relevant entries are 1649 and 2203). At any rate, the fact that this term seems to go back to Proto-Dravidian (note that it treats "Kurukh" and "Kodagu" as coming from the same root) would seem to rule out the etymologies which this article suggests, so perhaps the best way forward is to remove them unless they're confirmed by a reliable linguistic source? -- Arvind 23:53, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Globalisation

I'm copyediting this page, and there's one sentence that I'm taking out which refers to a threat that globalisation poses to the region. I'm removing it because it is unspecific and unsourced, but I think it would be a good idea for someone to check that out and see if it needs to be included in the article. Kleio08 (talk) 18:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

copyedit in progress

Just to let you all know I'm back at work. If I accidentally alter or delete information, please wait 2-3 days before editing/correcting so I can finish the wording. BTW: the ancient and modern Hebrew name for Greece was Yavan, if this has any bearing on ethnic origins. Thank you all, Shir-El too 21:03, 24 June 2008 (UTC) Copyedit finished. Good Luck, Shir-El too 23:29, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

coorgcreek.com

I cannot see that coorgcreek.com [1] can be considered a reliable source. Hence I've removed it from references; though there may still be material that is not supported except on this website. Imc (talk) 21:24, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Names and Origins

Hi, I personally prefer the use of the local name (in Kodava takk and in Kannada) Kodagu over the anglicised word Coorg. But as many people, especially outside Karnataka, are unaware of the name Kodagu and instead know of Coorg as being a popular tourist destination i had used both terms. However one must remember that Kodagu is the older and more authentic name, the word Coorg arose from callous mispronunciation. There are many theories regarding the origin of the words Kodagu and Kodava but most of them are mythical hence they can't be verified. However they all have the same root 'Koda-'. This must be analogous to 'Tulu' (as in Tuluva and Tulunad).

Also many people lay stress on the foriegn origins of the Kodavas. Till date that hasn't been proved, instead it is known from ancient inscriptions that the Kodavas lived in the same land Kodagu from many centuries. Both the Kodavas and Kodagu have similar names, one arose from the other, hence they have very ancient ties. Also one must not forget that there were several smaller-numbered communities of Kodagu who were similar to them while belonging to different castes and social classes : Amma Kodavas (Brahminised), Kodagu Gowdas (Vokkaliga), Heggades (agricultural), Airis (artisan), Kodava Moplah (Muslim), Poleyas (Dalit), Yeravas (tribal), Betta Kurubas (tribal), etc. Many Thanks. Theonlynitin (talk) 08:06, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Kodagu

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Kodagu's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "demographics":

From Karnataka: A. R. Fatihi. "Urdu in Karnataka". Language in India, Volume 2: 2002-12-09. M. S. Thirumalai, Managing Editor, Language in India. Retrieved 2007-06-29.
From Orissa: "Demographic features". Government of Orissa. Archived from the original on April 22, 2008. Retrieved 2008-10-09.
From Demographics of Karnataka: "Urdu in Karnataka". A. R. Fatihi, PhD on Language in India. Central Institute of Indian Languages. Retrieved 2007-06-29.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 03:48, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Kodagu->Kodagu district

This article was moved as above without discussion. There is no convention that districts must have the word 'district' after their name. There is the Wikipedia convention that names should be the standard common form. I am therefore requesting that this be moved back to Kodagu. Imc (talk) 17:59, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rename proposal

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 03:54, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Kodagu district → Kodagu relisted --Mike Cline (talk) 12:19, 27 November 2011 (UTC) – Reversion of undiscussed move, to standard name that is valid in accordance with naming policies. Imc (talk) 18:03, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Kodagu article is categorized to Districts of Karnataka, and in article of Kodagu, its mentioned as an administrative district in Karnataka, India. And all articles in Districts of Karnatka are suffixed with "district", why only Kodagu is exception!!. and also Kodagu is considered some time as former princely state in History of Kodagu, and also as separate State within Union of India from 1950 to 1956 in article Coorg State. so it will be confusion for readers. now its officially a District. and also i'm renaming article only with respect to Districts of Karnataka not to other articles.-Prasannatb (talk) 18:16, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Most districts have the 'district' suffix because they are named after a city, and it is necessary to distinguish the one from the other. Where the district is not named after something else, it is neither necessary, nor is it appropriate to add the term. With regard to 'only Kodagu is exception', well it was because the two other districts with unique names (Uttara and Dakshina Kannada) were previously renamed on the same grounds by others; I've moved them back to the original names, so it will no longer be unique. For Kodagu, this is the second time this has happened and because it now has a move history, only an administrator can do it. Imc (talk) 21:22, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Kodagu is also used (with whatever disputed accuracy) to refer to a language or a group of languages. Why not Kodagu, Karnataka? That would be immediately informative and genuinely helpful to readers who know nothing about the term or the topic. The present title at least lets us know that the article is geographical: not literary, linguistic, or whatever else. Noetica^Tea? 21:31, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That page is named as Kodava language. You might wanna see that. And why should it be Kodagu, Karnataka? We don't have any other place around the world with the same name. The article name should be Kodagu with Kodagu district being redirected there. — Abhishek ^Talk 02:53, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It is so named, yes. I did not claim otherwise. The claim I did make for "Kodagu language" stands, as Googlebooks shows for publications restricted for currency to the last twenty years: 24 hits. (Compare, incidentally, similarly restricted results for "Kodava language": 16 hits, the first of which is derived from Wikipedia!) So does my claim about informing the reader about what sort of an article this is. You do not answer that point. Noetica^Tea? 04:04, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See this. Google asks did you mean Kodava language? — Abhishek ^Talk 07:48, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sure Google asks that. Why, do you suppose? Look at the first two results! Wikipedia and Google are closely intertwined, and this has to be borne in mind when we use evidence from Google. On the other hand, International encyclopedia of linguistics (OUP, 2nd edition 2003) lists it as "Kodagu", and gives several variants. And "Kodagu" is given in the index, but not "Kodava". Noetica^Tea? 08:58, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Support: This article's name remained Kodagu since August 2007 until it was unilaterally moved by Prasannatb. Rename it per WP:PRIMARYMEANING. Kodagu refers only to the district, the language is commonly known as Kodava and since Kodava also refers to the people of Kodagu, the article is named as Kodava language. — Abhishek ^Talk 02:53, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose Each and every district of India is named with the suffix district. So should it remain. If we make but a single exception, there will suddenly be dozens moved for all sorts of specious and bizarre reasons and this will be yet another area of Indian articles which will be rendered into such a mess that no responsible editor will be prepared to touch it with a barge-pole (as has already started up above; Google hits, anybody??) Crusoe8181 (talk) 04:55, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Kodagu only refers to the district, so the word "district" is redundant. The same is the case with Uttara Kannada and Dakshin Kannada. These are primarily districts and nothing else. — Abhishek ^Talk 07:48, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article is not about the region; it is about the official district of India with a boundary drawn around it, the region may well be nearly coincident with the the district, but the article is about the district not the region. See Category:Districts of India by name which. appart from a couple changed in the past day clearly show the naming convention. Let us eschew the descent into chaos of Indian articles. Crusoe8181 (talk) 11:45, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Kodagu does not directly refers to district, it has long past as former princely state, and also as separate State within Union of India. Uttara Kannada district and Dakshin Kannada district are moved without discussion by Imc yesterday.-Prasannatb (talk) 08:10, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support (for clarity and ease of counting, noting also that I am the proposer for this reversion to the previous title). Justifications in the discussions section. Imc (talk) 18:11, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment What is an ease of counting?? Crusoe8181 (talk) 10:12, 23 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So that 'Support' and 'Oppose' show up in bold, in the first word, in a support or oppose section, so it can be seen how many voted which way. In some cases it is not clear that the proposal is actually being supported by the person who posts it. (btw, I don't think that 'strength' for support and oppose add any fresh information and don't add to the count.) Imc (talk) 17:49, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

The name Kodagu, without disambiguation, is in accordance with WP:Name and WP:D.

When the subject of an article is referred to mainly by a single common name, as evidenced through usage in a significant majority of English-language reliable sources, Wikipedia generally follows the sources and uses that name as its article title (subject to the other naming criteria). (from the naming conventions)

The disambiguation provided by the addition of 'district' is unnecessary and superfluous. The rare instances quoted of the incorrect use of Kodagu for the language are not significant.

If the primary meaning of a term proposed for disambiguation is a broad concept or type of thing that is capable of being described in an article, and a substantial portion of the links asserted to be ambiguous are instances or examples of that concept or type, then the page located at that title should be an article describing the broad concept, and not a disambiguation page. (from the disambiguation conventions).

There has been a restatement that the names of districts should be standardised, with 'district' added. Since most districts are named after cities and towns, it is necessary in those cases, but not here. This desire for standardisation of names here is imposing a condition that is not justified by WP policies, has not been discussed, and does not occur in real life (a somewhat similar case is the frequent unnecessary addition of the term 'river' in Wikipedia even where it is not used in practice, but at least that is justified in the relevant naming conventions). This move was never discussed, and some of the contributors to this discussion have been making such moves previously without discussion to adhere to this newly stated convention. For the record, I am aware that both the districts of Dakshina Kannada and Uttara Kannada were named just that till recently, and they were were renamed to include the term 'district' without discussion, something that I agree that I have reverted. I would have challenged these originally had I been watching these pages. Google hits mean little here. I've just tried 'State of Coorg' and that produced over a million hits, more than twice as much as 'Kodagu district'.

Imc (talk) 18:05, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Justification is not convincing, because support for this move is from major contributors of this article Imc and Abhishek191288. As I said why only Kodagu is exception from all districts with suffix "District". my friend Imc moved Uttara Kannada district and Dakshina Kannada district without discussion and also he admitted this in his justification. its clearly shows their motive behind moving those articles now. Kodagu does not directly refers to district. leave GOOGLE, lets got to Wikipedia articles, Kodagu language - is the original language of the south Karnataka district of Kodagu(I think language should be removed according to Imc) . Kodagu Gowda- are the major ethnic group in the Kodagu( Gowda should be removed according to Imc).Kodagu Mappila -are a Muslim community residing in Kodagu( So Mapila should be removed as per Imc) . History of Kodagu- comprises the area of the former princely state of the same name. Kodava- are a patrilineal ethno-lingual group from the region of Kodagu. Coorg – redirected to kodagu district. Coorg State- a separate State within Union of India from 1950 to 1956 with Mercara as it's Capital. Coorg Gowdas – redirected to Kodagu Gowda. Kodagu is referenced to language, region, princely state, state in india. so I strongly oppose Rename proposal. It should be Kodagu district as it is about an administrative district in Karnataka, India. and also I request Imc to revert the moved articles back to Uttara Kannada district and Dakshina Kannada district. Thanks -Prasannatb (talk) 19:18, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Kodagu is the primarily the name of the district, and does not need any disambiguation, unlike the other derived terms with Kodagu in them that you have quoted. For a comparison, taking Mysore, the primary name is that of the city, and the city is quite sensibly named just Mysore. The logic of adding 'district' to all district names would lead you on to state that all settlement namess should have 'city', 'town' et.c. added for further clarity, so that Mysore should be renamed Mysore city, and Madikeri should become Madikeri town et.c. This would of course unnecessary as people understand what primary usages are. The naming and disambiguation conventions are quite clearly based on this general understanding, and there is no need to spell everything out in unnecessary detail.

With regard to renaming Uttara and Dakshina Kannada, I cannot now do this any more than I can now move Kodagu district back to Kodagu. These need an administrator. However, neither of the original moves (the ones made previously that added the term 'district'), nor the move of Kodagu should have been made without discussion, since sooner or later such moves would be likely to become controversial. Imc (talk) 18:10, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

not long ago, at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names)#India there was a stated convention on district names which stated that districts were named with the lower case used for the word district; seems to be no longer there since the recent User:Bogdan_Nagachop descent into chaos. Just a thought, are we going to have to spend our time writing thousands of words on talk pages to determine how to name each of India's districts, when there is a clear convention. This has wasted my time which would be much better spent removing Indian articles from my watchlist Crusoe8181 (talk) 09:17, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There will be absolutely no descent into chaos from following the naming conventions, which are there for a good reason. Imc (talk) 18:04, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Removed post

I removed the content posted by Sajansubbaiah on 9 March 2012 because it appears to have been copied verbatim from http://www.languageinindia.com/oct2001/kodavarajyashree.html without any indication of its copyright status. Imc (talk) 19:58, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Copyediting + Cleanup

Copyediting and cleanup in progress. I am removing the tags when I am done. Tnx. Kanga Roo in the Zoo (talk) 07:03, 27 July 2014 (UTC) Those who want to read about the History of Kodagu are redirected to a different link History of Kodagu. Non-Kodava communities have been mentioned. These include the Hindus other than the native Kodavas and the other Kodava language speakers, the forest dwellers, the Kannada speakers, the Malayalam speakers, the Christians and the Muslims. Kanga Roo in the Zoo (talk) 07:47, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Judgemental commentary

In the history section it says that British rule "led to establishment of educational institutions" and "better governance". The first statement means that there were no educational institutions before the British came in which cannot be true. The second one is a judgemental statement. Pareshbh (talk) 21:23, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 December 2021

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Please change the name of the collector. Jonathan752 (talk) 01:17, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:24, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 September 2022

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I wish to request you, change the introduction paragraph as there are some grammatical errors.

→The original paragraph is: It occupies an area of 4,102 square kilometres (1,584 sq mi) in the Western Ghats of southwestern Karnataka. In 2001 its population was 548,561, 13.74% of which resided in the district's urban centre, making it the least populous of the 31 districts in Karnataka.

The nearest railway stations are Mysore Junction, located around 95 km away and Thalassery and Kannur in Kerala, at a distance of 79 km. The nearest airports are Kannur International Airport in Kerala (59 km from Kodagu) and Mangalore International Airport (118 km from Kodagu).

→but the correct version is: It occupies an area of 4,102 square kilometers (1,584 sq mi) in the Western Ghats of southwestern Karnataka. In 2001 its population was 548,561, 13.74% of which resided in the district's urban center, making it the least populous of the 31 districts in Karnataka.

The nearest railway stations are Mysore Junction, located around 95 km away, and Thalassery and Kannur in Kerala, 79 km. The nearest airports are Kannur International Airport in Kerala (59 km from Kodagu) and Mangalore International Airport (118 km from Kodagu).

Kookie kiki (talk) 16:22, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Partly done: This article uses Indian English, "kilometres" and "centre" are therefore appropriate. See also MOS:ENGVAR – Recoil (talk) 10:54, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]