Talk:Kigali/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 07:38, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead and History sections

"following independence" from whom?
Clarified — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"began trading in" -> "began to trade in"
Done — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Wouldn't object to linking Burundi here.
Done — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"... small city..... The city..." quick repeat jarred a little.
Reworded — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"1990–1993" the linked article says it went on until 1994.
The intention was to refer to the "main phase" of the war, which ended in 1993 - the fighting between rebels and government during the genocide is sometimes included in this and sometimes not... but anyway, I've restructured the sentence to make this clearer. — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"500,000-1,000,000" en-dash for ranges.
Done — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"The RPF resumed fighting... " you didn't mention they'd stopped.
Clarified — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"on 4 July" safe to add the year here. It's been a while since you mentioned 1994.
Done — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"a province-level city," call me a dumb 'Tab but I don't know what that really means.
Ha. Do they teach you nothing at that Fenland polytechnic of yours? Clarified. — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Link and explain GDP before using the abbreviation in the lead.
Done — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Map of Rwanda showing the location of Kigali." no full stop required, it's a fragment.
Done — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Map calls it "Kigali City" like a proper name. Should it just be Kigali or is it sometimes referred to as Kigali City (in which case I imagine that should be noted somewhere other than just in the infobox map).
I've removed "City" from the infobox. It is sometimes referred to that way in sources when listed amongst other provinces but not consistently, and it is probably just a throwback to when there were separate "Kigali City" and "Kigali Rural" provinces, pre-2006. — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Population density (in infobox) doesn't appear anywhere else and isn't referenced.
Fixed. I've mentioned and cited it in the Demographics section. The area is actually not cited, and in fact I can't even find a source for it. But it seems like this should be a simple WP:CALC issue if the population and density are known, right? — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ditto time zone.
Added to the body. — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"agriculture.[4][3]" just a preference for citations to be in numerical order.
Done — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"oral history the " I would have a comma before the.
Done — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Link Lake Muhazi here instead of on a subsequent mention.
Done — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"playing these neighbours against each other," this just doesn't feel encyclopedic.
I've reworded to reflect the detail given in the source. — Amakuru (talk) 18:12, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"the early kingdom flourished in the area" and the causality isn't really clear to me.
Ditto. — Amakuru (talk) 18:12, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Link Lake Kivu on its first mention.
Done — Amakuru (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" invaded by the Banyoro " could say where they were coming from?
Done — Amakuru (talk) 18:12, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"the kings forced" forgive my ignorance, was there more than one king in the Kingdom of Rwanda? That doesn't seem clear.
The main source mentions two of the kings, but presumably only one of them was ruling at the time, and another source just mentions one, so I've changed it to "king". — Amakuru (talk) 18:12, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Since 1916 Colonel Molitor visiting the Belgian troops in Kigali, Rwanda" image caption seems to be missing something.
Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 20:53, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" in 1899, exploring Lake Kivu and searching for the" -> " in 1899, to explore Lake Kivu and search for the"
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 20:53, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Resident is suddenly capitalised here, what's the logic?
No logic. Just a MOS:JOBTITLES error I think. I've made it lower case. — Amakuru (talk) 20:53, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Link/explain CBD before using the abbreviation.
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 20:53, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"established by Greek" so Greeks were allowed too?
It would seem so. I've broadened the category of those permitted to "foreign". — Amakuru (talk) 17:04, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"crippling famine" bit POV, perhaps "severe famine"? And why?
Done and Clarified. — Amakuru (talk) 10:57, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"expansion of control." wut?
Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 10:57, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"considered - Nyanza," en-dash.
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 10:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" But the" no need for "but".
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 10:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"retained a small-town feel," this is POV, according to whom?
Reworded. — Amakuru (talk) 10:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Gregoire Kayibanda missing his accent.
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 10:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" but life had returned to normal " feels like a personal commentary.
Reworded. — Amakuru (talk) 10:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"1990–1993 Rwandan Civil War," see above.
Reworded. — Amakuru (talk) 10:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" in February 1993.[41] In December 1993," bit repeaty.
Changed to "of the same year" — Amakuru (talk) 10:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"President Habyarimana was assassinated when `" the lead mentions the death of the Burundi guy too, more here, less there, or at least the same here as there.
Included him here. (And he's also no longer in the lead). — Amakuru (talk) 10:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's Kigali International Airport and worth linking first time.
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 10:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"which 500,000–1,000,000[nb 1] Tutsi " horrific note placement. Put it at the end.
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 10:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's the first two sections (and infobox) done. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 19:11, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Geography

"Rwanda is it in " it is in.
Maybe it was a quiz question? Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 13:07, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Time time zone" I know, picky, but time time.
Reworded. — Amakuru (talk) 13:07, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" Southern provinces" include provinces in the pipe.
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 13:07, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" the city's territory.[59] The city's ur" the city's on quick repeat.
Reworded. — Amakuru (talk) 13:07, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Kigali lies ... Kigali lies ..." again, quick repeat.
Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 13:33, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Is "altitude" the right word for mountains? Is it not "elevation"? and I take it these are "above sea level"?
Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 13:33, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"over 1,800 m (5,906 ft),[62] while the lowest areas of the city have an altitude of 1,800 m (5,906 ft)" say wut?
Fixed. It should say 1,300 for the low point. — Amakuru (talk) 13:07, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" the city lies in " city lies! Could mix it up a little with "is situated in" or similar?
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 13:07, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" Nyabugogo River, which flows south from Lake Muhazi before flowing west between Mount Kigali and Mount Jali, and draining into the Nyabarongo." the river flows south then west then drains ... into itself?
Nope.... the two rivers have different orderings of their Ns, Gs and Os from the fifth letter onwards — Amakuru (talk) 13:07, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" known in English by the Kinyarwanda term mu mujyi" not sure this is really "in English".
Well what I meant was that many English speakers who live or travel there use the term when talking English, for example [1]. Like "Shoji" and "Abwehr", it wouldn't pass your "ask people at work if they've heard of it" test, but I have italicised it. Should I just remove "in English", or would you just omit the Kinyarwanda name altogether? — Amakuru (talk) 13:07, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Rwanda[74] and " move that ref to the end of the sentence.
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 13:07, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"This latter group" Just "The latter group" methinks.
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 13:33, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just a question, do we consider the term "expat" to be encyclopedic?
Not really, no. — Amakuru (talk) 13:33, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"temperate tropical highland " sea of blue.
Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 13:33, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"typical daily temperature range between 12 and 27 °C" table shows an min (ave) around 15.7 and a max average around 26.9, so I'm not sure where the "12" comes from as I'm kind of assuming "typical" to be "average" or "mean" here.
Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 13:33, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"There are two rainy seasons in the year" perhaps avoid repeating "year" by using something like "annual" in here.
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 13:33, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You link dry season but not wet season...
Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 13:33, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Source: [87]" no space between punc and ref.
This seems to be just the way the {{Weather box}} template renders it, but I've maybe fixed this by naming the source as "World Meteorological Organization" as well as having a footnote. — Amakuru (talk) 13:33, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:18, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Demographics and Economy

"population" is used nine times in one para. It might be inevitable but some variety would be nice.
Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 10:57, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" rate[52] and" never like this kind of ref placement, why not a few words later behind the comma?
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 14:05, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"and in the 2012 census had reached 1.13 million," maybe throw in the point that this means the population had almost doubled in ten years?
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 14:05, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge nb2 with nb3 so you don't have that awkward placement.
Redundant per point below. — Amakuru (talk) 14:05, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, I'm not sure, once you've said 51.7% were male, you need the female stat do you? Or are we now catering for people who self-identify as something other than their "birth sex"?
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 14:05, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"The population is young," this may be true on a global scale, but what's the life expectancy in Rwanda? These people may be relatively old for the country?
I can't find any life-expectancy figures for Kigali specifically. Maybe that's not even a meaningful concept, because if somebody moves around during their life, then in what locality do you record their lifespan? The census results show proportions of people in various age groups, and actually the 14-35 year olds represent a higher proportion in Kigali than elsewhere, with kids and elderly forming a lower proportion than the national average. Because rural people migrate into the city when they're of working age. I've added some detail on this to the article. — Amakuru (talk) 22:32, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"number only 3.0 per " no need for "only".
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 14:05, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"translated to GDP, this gives a total city GDP" probably don't need that first "to GDP".
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 14:05, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"amongst others" not required as you started with "includes" so others is kind of implied.
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 14:05, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think you mean RwandAir rather than RwandaAir.
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 14:05, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" Charles, Prince of Wales and " comma after Wales.
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 14:05, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No biggie, but why " sixty-one businesses" when 61 works here?
As far as I know MOS:NUM allows either sixty-one or 61, given that it's "expressible in two words"... but I'm not really that fussed so I've changed to 61 if you prefer that. — Amakuru (talk) 11:18, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You link tungsten but not tin?
Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 14:05, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"1,800 tonnes " you've converted other units...
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 14:05, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:48, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Governance and Education

"divided into thirty-five" likewise, 35?
Changed, same as above. — Amakuru (talk) 11:18, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"a City Manager" not sure this needs to be capitalised.
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 11:18, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" University of Rwanda (UR). The UR h" quick repeat.
Fixed. — Amakuru (talk) 11:18, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" Kigali boasted 239" not sure that's encyclopedic tone.
Ha, I thought you might not like that one... Changed to "had", which is a bit lame-sounding but can't think of a better verb right now. — Amakuru (talk) 11:18, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"primary schools with 203,680 pupils enrolled,[148] and 143 secondary schools with an enrolment of 60,997" that's a huge discrepancy. Is there any explanation available as to why it appears there's a 60% drop-out rate between primary and secondary school?
Rationale added. — Amakuru (talk) 14:37, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:14, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sports and Transportation

" Amahoro Stadium was the one" could just be "It was one ..."
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 11:18, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Seven of the sixteen teams in the Rwanda Premier League " which sport?
Clarified. — Amakuru (talk) 15:43, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Our article on National Basketball League (Rwanda), which is admittedly dreadful, seems to be suggesting that out of eight teams, six are based in Kigali, the other two be based somewhere unknown...! Just trying to reconcile that against "approximately half".
More detail added. The previous fact may have been correct in 2016, but it's actually 10 out of 14 currently. The linked article updated too. — Amakuru (talk) 14:37, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And I'm not looking at refs yet (that comes on the second pass) but the ref for this sentence comes from 2016, so the information in this sentence is somewhat dated and probably needs to be noted per WP:ASOF.
As above. — Amakuru (talk) 14:37, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Kigali Transport" a curious caption...
Pictures and captions updated. — Amakuru (talk) 14:37, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Link East African Community.
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 16:13, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You link Kenya here, but did you link Uganda before? And Tanzania? Check that...
Uganda yes, Tanzania no. Fixed that one. — Amakuru (talk) 10:51, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"on pu blic transport" c'mon man...
Oops. Not sure what happened there. — Amakuru (talk) 15:43, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"In the2010s these" words fail.
Hmm. — Amakuru (talk) 15:43, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"being re-legalised in 2014 after a period in which they were banned" this reads clumsily to me, and "re-legalised" seems to already imply there was a previous period where they were disallowed.
They were disallowed, from around 2004 or 2005 I think (based on my recollection from when I lived there) until they were allowed again from 2014. I have two sources for the reintroduction, but I can't find any precise details on when they were banned. I've changed "re-legalised" to "reintroduced", which is maybe more usual terminology, but let me know if there's any other way I should convey this information. — Amakuru (talk) 16:13, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" but the border must be crossed on foot" + " the journey now requires two buses and a foot crossing of the border" seems to be saying almost the same thing twice, merge the information.
It's different borders and a slightly different situation, because the end destinations are immediately across the border in the case of Goma and Bukavu meaning a second bus journey might not be necessary. Plus the extra detail that it used to be possible to bus directly to Bujumbura I've reworded a bit with a "similarly", let me know if you can think of better wording. — Amakuru (talk) 11:18, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"the nation and the city's principal airport" -> "nation's"?
Done. — Amakuru (talk) 11:18, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"to Nairobi and Entebbe" these are easter egg links.
Reworded. — Amakuru (talk) 11:18, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:32, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References, MOS and other minutiae

~~ISBNs should be consistently formatted, preferably most up to date using the ISBN.org converter.~~
Be consistent with linking. Either link items the first time, every time, or no times.
~~Ref 11 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first". Be consistent.~~
~~Ref 17 - has no publisher/work information.~~
~~Ref 21 - likewise.~~
~~Ref 35 - en-dash for year range.~~
~~Ref 37 - needs publication and/or accessdate.~~
~~Ref 47 - BBC News isn't an author, it's a publisher.~~
~~Ref 49 - is it BBC Newsor BBC News?~~
~~Ref 57 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first". Be consistent.~~
~~Ref 62 - BBC News isn't an author, it's a publisher.~~
~~Ref 69 - ditto, and what is " BBC News (II) "?~~
~~Ref 74 - "The EastAfrican " is not the author and you repeat it as an author and a work.~~
~~Ref 79 - Google Maps is not the author. Be consistent with the previous refs using Gmaps.~~
~~Ref 80 - The Week is a work, not the author.~~
~~Ref 85 - Avoid SHOUTING.~~
~~Ref 87 - Kigali Genocide Memorial is not the author, it's a publisher.~~
~~Ref 88 - missing publisher/work and date is inconsistent format.~~
~~Ref 91 - WMO is not the author, it's the publisher.~~
~~Ref 93 - Strategic Foresight Group is the publisher, not author.~~
~~Ref 104 - UNDP is publisher.~~
~~Ref 107 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 112 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 113 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 114 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first". Also missing accessdate.~~
~~Ref 115 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first". Also it was previously The New Times. And missing accessdate.~~
~~Ref 116 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 120 - should be a spaced en-dash, not hyphen.~~
~~Ref 123 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 128 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 130 - MINALOC is not the author, rather they're the publisher.~~
~~Ref 131 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 132 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 134 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 137 - this appears to be via YouTube.~~
~~Ref 141 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 142 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first". Also missing accessdate.~~
~~Ref 144 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 145 - should be spaced en-dash.~~
~~Ref 146 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 147 - should be spaced en-dash.~~
~~Ref 150 - missing publication/access date.~~
The publication is the university's own website. — Amakuru (talk) 14:25, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
~~Ref 152 - should be spaced en-dash.~~
~~Ref 154 - should be pp.~~
~~Ref 155 - should be pp.~~
~~Ref 156 - MINEDUC is the publisher.~~
~~Ref 157 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 160 - no accessdate.~~
~~Ref 163 - scoreline should use en-dash.~~
~~Ref 165 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 167 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 168 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 170 - should be spaced en-dashes.~~
~~Ref 172 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 174 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 177 - missing publisher/work.~~
~~Ref 178 - appears identical to Ref 179.~~
~~Ref 180 - AfDB is the publisher.~~
~~Ref 187 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first". Avoid SHOUTING.~~
~~Ref 188 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 189 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 190 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 192 - has author name as "first last" rather than "last, first".~~
~~Ref 195 - Centre For Aviation is publisher.~~
~~Ref 198 - MININFRA is publisher.~~
~~Biblio - Louis needs en-dash in year range.~~
Biblio - some online resources have access dates, some don't, be consistent.
Generally, I don't give book links access dates but I do give them for publications hosted on the web. It looks like that rule is being followed but let me know if I've missed something. — Amakuru (talk) 15:14, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
~~Great Rift Valley is mentioned in the cats but nowhere in the article.~~
As far as I'm aware it is not in the Great Rift Valley, only western Rwanda around Lake Kivu would qualify for that. — Amakuru (talk) 15:14, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
~~Second external link doesn't need a full stop.~~

That's it for a first pass on refs/MOS etc. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:04, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: looked at all these now. Thanks again for the thorough review! — Amakuru (talk) 15:14, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Amakuru it's been a pleasure. I'm happy that the article now easily exceeds the GA criteria so I'm promoting it. Good work. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:57, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: cheers mate, thanks for the detailed review. I'll probably look at taking it to FAC at some point, although I'll have to figure out what is missing from the "complete" article that would be expected for that. Looking at other city FAs like Istanbul, Hyderabad and Dhaka, they all seem to have Culture sections which Kigali lacks right now, so I can work on that. The trouble as ever is finding the relevant sources. So much less is available online for this sort of topic, compared with a similar-sized city in England say. If you have any other tips please let me know. Thanks and all the best. — Amakuru (talk) 10:11, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. And hey, if you can only add a small culture section, so be it. It should be relatively straightforward at FAC! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:14, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]