Talk:Khatri/Archive 4
 | This is an archive of past discussions about Khatri. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
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Regions with significant populations?
Any other countries you want to add to this list? How about China, maybe Russia?, Mongolia perhaps?, oh we can't forget Hawaii right, and Belarus!. How ABSOLUTELY ridiculous, whoever included all those countries is an absolute fool, there are no significant populations of Khatris in Ukraine? lol, haha. The only regions with significant populations would be India and p**istan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.98.225.54 (talk) 18:18, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Note should be taken of the fact that the great caste of Khatri (the merchants) have nothing to do with the Kshatriya (warrior and kings).
Khatri is a wonderful caste of merchants from Punjab, they are not warriors the Kshatriyas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.88.88.153 (talk) 15:22, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Would agree the Khatri a caste found mainly in the Punjab is a caste of merchants. Nice people as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.244.94.103 (talk) 20:22, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Nice discussion it seems the Wikipedia is used to push an agenda. In India the Khatris are known as surely a caste of merchants and the Kshatriyas as a martial caste. They both must not be and should not be mixed.
See a Khatri-Sikh:http://www.kheper.net/topics/Sant_Mat/Raji300.jpg
See a Kshatriya-Sikh: http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20041215/ed1.jpg
Yours etc.,
Balwant Singh Purewal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.52.157.237 (talk) 23:30, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Freakin self agreement ... A and A is logically still A, you can invent any fables you like and then agree with them. ...
By creating a fake dispute and controversy a Khatri (a merchant) can not be made a Kshatriya (warriors and kings). these two castes have nothing in common in looks. culture or gots.
Mandeep Mann —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.88.88.153 (talk) 18:54, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
I would agree that Khatri and Kashatriyas are one and the same. Get over the translation folks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.164.25 (talk) 03:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
What Crap is this
Nonsense we Kshatriyas the warriors have nothing to do with Khatris a great caste of merchants. Not only have we different traditions, structure and looks and no common Gotras. Jarnail Singh Sra. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.103.243.226 (talk) 16:59, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I can't believe this artcle, its all bull crap. Wow some people amaze me at how little they know. Thats funny to know that the GUrus came from a bandit caste...so ridiculous. It was accurate before. Khatri IS NOT HINDI, it is the punjabi way of saying it and is called KSHATRIYA in sanskrit meaning warrior caste which is the same caste I am from. Khatris are not a merchant caste, Khatris are warriors and exactly the same as Rajputs so get over it. Rajput is a Rajasthani way of saying it or only used for Kshatriyas from Rajasthan, Khatri is a Punjabi way of saying it and only used by Kshatriyas from Punjab, Kshatriya is a Sanskrit way of saying it.
This is what the article originally should be saying:
"The Khatris (Punjabi) or Kshatriyas (Sanskrit, (K) silent) are a north Indian community that originated in the Potwar Plateau of Punjab. This region is historically connected with the composition of the Vedas and classics like the Mahabharata and Ashtadhyayi. In the old varna (caste) system the Kshatriya were members of the Hindu military order who as administrators and rulers, were tasked with protecting Hindu Dharma, and serving humanity. In the course of time, however, as a result of economic and political exigencies, Khatris also expanded into mercantile occupations.
Today Khatris live in all regions of India, but are concentrated in East Punjab, Haryana, Delhi and Uttar Pradesh. While most Khatris are Hindu, some are also Sikh, some Muslim and even a small minority are Jain. Khatris of all these faiths collectively form one community. In modern times, the Khatri play a significant role in the Indian economy, serving as businessmen, civil and government administrators, landlords and military officials." Aahana999 (talk) 02:54, 27 February 2009 (UTC) Aahana999
The Khatris are Aryans like most Indians. However,they are a merchant caste and not Kshatriyas like the Rajputs, Jats, Nairs, Coorgis, etc. They are respected in India.
who changed the earlier article and added this crap "they are not usually military in their character, though considerable numbers enlisted during the great War, they have not however the same military qualities as the Jat Sikh to whom they are greatly socially inferior." please remove this nonsense and roll back the original article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrwordsworth (talk • contribs) 02:15, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
To the guy above me who says that Khatris are socially inferior, Then why are the socially inferior guys the Gurus, creators of Sikhism all warriors? And how is a farmer caste superior socially to a Prince/Princess/Warrior caste? Jat Sikhs were Farmers and not Warriors and were usually footmen soldiers under Khatri Generals, so get your information straight and get off your high Tracktor Aahana999 (talk) 03:28, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Intothefire (talk) 05:13, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
The Khatri, a merchant is not a Kshtriya the warrior. No one can create a confusion on this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.88.88.153 (talk) 17:59, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
I edited out the perhaps mischievous or equally possible, ill informed comments of the last user. We still need to make this article much better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.177.82.12 (talk) 09:34, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Need for reorganization
Yes many of these people have no idea what they are talking about. I am also Khatri which is the Punjabi word for the Sanskrit Kshatriya which means warrior caste. Aahana999 (talk) 02:56, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
- Divisions like Dhai-Ghar etc are of minor significance. They should be mentioned later in the article. Their history needs some careful research.
- The discussion of history should be re-organized into a well-written section.
- Shared heritage should be in the section on history.
Puri are indeed a clan of Khatris.
Khatris are the Kshatriyas of the Punjab region. Whole of India was once ruled by Kshatriyas. For clarity, the two terms should be used such that Khatri is a specific term and Kshatriya is a general term.--Vikramsingh (talk) 00:19, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
"A legend based on Hindu oral traditions"
Article states:
- A legend based on Hindu oral traditions states that Lahore was named after Lava, son of Lord Rama, who supposedly founded the city. To this day, the Lahore fort has a deserted temple dedicated to Luv (also pronounced as Loh, hence "Loh-awar" or fort of Loh). Another legend says the town of Kasur (now in Pakistan) was named after Kusha, the younger son of Lord Rama.
Actually it is mentioned in Bichitra Natak of Guru Gobind Singh.--Vikramsingh (talk) 00:24, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
List of anonymous IP s used by Cranks to post on this article
I have reintroduced this section , as a very large no of anonymous ips continue to post junk on this page .
Apparently there are several users with an agenda posting junk or deleting content from this page . If you come across one not listed here please add. It may be useful to check the other contributions of these crank ips as well as their WHOIS origin .
Perhaps they may respond to posts on their Discusssion page recording a history of their vandal edits on variou articles .<nr>
Intothefire (talk) 06:40, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Good idea.--Vikramsingh (talk) 01:27, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Intothefire (talk) 17:23, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Intothefire (talk) 08:14, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
Intothefire (talk) 05:26, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
Intothefire (talk) 12:39, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Intothefire (talk) 12:30, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Intothefire (talk) 17:51, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Intothefire (talk) 17:57, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Intothefire (talk) 06:14, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
From the GAZETTEER LUDHIANA
I think this large quote is mostly redundant. I suggest we remove it after merging parts of the text to other parts, if needed (with citation).--Vikramsingh (talk) 01:30, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Some cleaning is needed.--ISKapoor (talk) 03:35, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Shanti bhai vandal edits using sockpuppets
User Shanti bhai
has been using scores of Sockpuppets to vandal the Khatri and many other articles as well . please see his talk page
Here for example are specifically two edit dates between which he has contributed a number of vandal posts . The edit history between these two posts makes it amply clear how shanti bhai has used several new user ids and anonymous posts to completely vandal this article . The two posts are
Shanti bhai Revision as of 13:55, 5 August 2008
and
Shanti bhai Revision as of 09:58, 6 August 2008
Intothefire (talk) 05:13, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Vandalism
This article is complete and utter tosh. I'm sorry but, sentences like "Latest to enter bollywood from Kapoor clan is the hearthrob of the nation Ranbir Kapoor,Rishi's son. Khanna's have also made bollywood proud.Rajesh Khanna was the 1st ever superstar of bollywood." have no place here. I'm going to see if I can find a clean version. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 20:11, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
- Discussion shifted to this page from User Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) page .
- Discussion shifted to this page from User Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) page .
Hi
I refer to your neutrality of this article is disputed banner on the article and comment on the talk page .
Although I do agree that the portion you have mentioned in your comments on the discussion page is inane and this along with other frivolous content should be removed.
I think your comments about this entire article being complete and utter tosh. Is sweeping and unqualified .
Please specifically inform sections that need improvement, pruning or deletion , for the tag to be removed .
I have been working to improve this article for a long time by providing edits with citations from verifiable sources, as a matter of fact a large number of these citations have been provided by me.
On the other hand this article has been aggressively vandaled by several anonymous ips , and to counter this I created a vandal list which is available on the discussion page . I have avoided removing any content as my experience on wikipedia tells me this invariably ends in an edit war unless an editor is involved .
I hope that you are an editor and will now assist with improving the article and protecting from vandals .
Cheers
Intothefire (talk) 10:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
- "And it is a slog of destiny that they had to leave their ancestral home of Punjab upon the partition of India. It is a huge loss of culture, heredity and traditions for Punjabi people." Really, it's just... full of peacock terms, which I don't think I need to point out, because they're readily apparent. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 17:02, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
- Shifting this dialogue to the Khatri discussion page for ref . I have made some deletions and edits . Would appreciate removal of this tag . If there are other specific instances of content you have an issue with please elucidate . I also hope that you have a deep knowledge of the subject .
- Shifting this dialogue to the Khatri discussion page for ref . I have made some deletions and edits . Would appreciate removal of this tag . If there are other specific instances of content you have an issue with please elucidate . I also hope that you have a deep knowledge of the subject .
Cheers
Intothefire (talk) 09:25, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- Message for User:Chase me ladies
Carrying forward the discussion
Why have you removed so many relevant pieces of verifiable content from reliable sources with complete citation details provided .
I am listing the the Headings and then the references here instead of the content to avoid this message from becoming too long .
This content needs to be restored ,if required it could be abridged where possible , or synopsis inserted.
From the GAZETTEER LUDHIANA
Source Reference of content provided on the article removed 1 [2]}}
Muslim Khatris of Kashmir
Source Reference of content provided on the article removed 2[3]}}
Citation of content removed 3[4]}}
Khatris in Maharashtra
Source Reference of content provided on the article removed 3 Maharashtra By K. S. Singh, B. V. Bhanu, B. R. Bhatnagar, Anthropological Survey of India, D. K. Bose, V. S
Histrory of Khatris recorded in the Ain-i-Akbari
Source Reference of content provided on the article removed 4[5]}}
Divisions recorded in the Ain-i-Akbari
Source Reference of content provided on the article removed 5[6]}}
Source Reference of content provided on the article removed 6[7]}}
Sarsut Brahmans and Khatris
Source Reference of content provided on the article removed 7[8]}}
Would appreciate your response.
Cheers
Intothefire (talk) 12:32, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
References
- ^ Gazetteer of the Rawalpindi District Published by Sang -e-meel Publications ,Lahore , Pakistan
- ^ People, GAZETTEER LUDHIANA, Department of Revenue, Government of Punjab (India), Homepage: [1]
- ^ The Valley Of Kasmir by Walter R Lawrence Chapter XII Page 303
- ^ The Valley Of Kasmir by Walter R Lawrence Chapter XII Page 303
- ^ THE AÍN I AKBARI BY ABUL FAZLALLÁMI, TRANSLATED FROM THE ORIGINAL PERSIAN,BY H. BLOCHMANN, M.A.AND COLONEL H. S. JARRETT Volume 11 Chapter93
- ^ Denzil Ibbetson, Edward MacLagan, H.A. Rose "A Glossary of The Tribes & Casts of The Punjab & North-West Frontier Province", 1911 AD, Page 510, Vol II,
- ^ THE AÍN I AKBARI BY ABUL FAZLALLÁMI, TRANSLATED FROM THE ORIGINAL PERSIAN,BY H. BLOCHMANN, M.A.AND COLONEL H. S. JARRETT Volume 111 Page 114
- ^ Denzil Ibbetson, Edward MacLagan, H.A. Rose "A Glossary of The Tribes & Casts of The Punjab & North-West Frontier Province", 1911 AD, Page 122, Vol II,
-Intothefire 12:32, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Need a separate article on Sanatan Dharma Sabha
An article on Punjab organization this is needed.--ISKapoor (talk) 01:36, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Muslim Khatris
Please do not remove Islam from religious denominations of Khatris or content related to Muslim Khatris . There are significant communities of Khatris from Punjab ,Sindh ,NWFP ,and other parts of the South Asian region .
Cheers
Intothefire (talk) 06:35, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Relation with Jatts and Tarkhans
Y-chromosome is found in Jat,Khatri,Tarkhan Tribes and it is proved that along with Indo-Scythian Ancestry these tribes have European lineage.So I request you to edit this in Relation with Jatts and Tarkhan in topic Khatri. 122.163.206.38 (talk) 21:05, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Lol
I cant help but laugh at the persistent and vicious vandal edits on this article .
Referenced content is corrupted deleted continously ...latest someone turns them into Indo Scythians.....wow
lol .
Intothefire (talk) 12:01, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Khatris are related to Jats and Tarkhan and are not related to Aroras.
Some traces are found which tell that Khatri tribe is related to Jat and Tarkhan tribe.These tribes have Indo-Scythian Ancestry and Y-Chromosome is found in these three tribes,therefore these tribes have European Lineage and Khatris are not related Arora tribe. 122.163.206.38 (talk) 21:05, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Origin of Khatri, Tarkhan(Ramgarhia) and Jat clans
According to DNA test, it observed that, the Khatri, Tarkhan and Jatt clans have Caucasian, Indo-Scythian, Indo-Aryan, Italic, Slavic, Germanic, Iranian, Baltic, Greek Origin. 122.163.206.38 (talk) 21:04, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Regions
Are the regions shown in this article in the info box correct? Nz26 10:27, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Regions shown in Khatris are correct
It is true that Khatris are found in these regions.In Case Russia and former USSR Republics,many Khatri, Jat and Ramgarhia sikhs lived In Soviet Russia and in 1991 some immigrated to other countries of USSR and some Sikhs are still living in other Parts Europe and other parts of World, so I request you not remove this topic from Khatris. 122.163.206.38 (talk) 21:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
All Khatri clans are related to Tarkhan and Jatt tribe.Khatri clans are not related to Arora clans.
[[Khatri are related to Tarkhan and Jatt tribe.The Khatri clans, Tarkhan clans and Jatt clans have common Indo-Scythian origin.All the clans of these three tribes are found all the parts of world.People of all the Khatri clans and some Jatt and Tarkhan clans are found among Punjabi Hindus, Punjabi Muslims and Sikhs.These clans of these three tribes are found as a majority in Punjab of Pakistan.Arora tribe is not found in Punjab of Pakistan.The Arora tribe is different from The Jatt, Khatri and Tarkhan tribes.So, I request you not remove any topic to related to Relation Jatts, Khatris and Tarkhan tribes.also, do not remove or change the Khatri, Tarkhan and Jatt clans and I also request you not change any article related to Jatts, Tarkhan, Khatris.Because, according to the census of 1951 to 2001,it is reported that many Khatri people of all 52 clans of Khatri tribe(Including Khukhran Khatris) are living along with Jatts and Tarkhan are living All the parts of Pakistan ,Northern India and other parts of world.The relegions followed by the people of all the clans of these three tribes are Islam(Both Sunni and Shi'a), Sikhism and Hinduism.I am not threatening you, but your actions of removing topics from the articles (Mentioned above) makes me angry.Please don't get angry.I like your website Wikipedia.if you are getting angry, for that I am sorry.But I want to know ,why you are removing the information ? 122.163.206.38 (talk) 21:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
List of Khatri Clans
A
* Abrol * Alung/Alang/Alagh/Alg/Alangh * Amba * Anand * Angra * Azad * Awal
B
* Badhwar/Budhwar * Bagga * Bahl * Bahri * Baijal * Bajaj * Bassi * Bawa * Bedi * Bembey * Beri * Bhalla * Bhambri * Bhamra * Bhandari * Bharara * Bhasin * Bindra * BATTA * Basur * Barman
C
* Chopra,s * Chadha * Chaudhary * Chhatwal * Chandhok * Chopra
D
* Dhall * Dhand * Dhawan * Dhir * Dhody * Duggal * Deora * Diwan
G
* Gadhiok/Gandhok * Gossain * Ghai/Ghei/Gehi * Gujral * Gandotra * Gulla
H
* Handa/Hande
J
* Jerath/Jeirath/Jairath * Jaggi * Jagga * Jolly * Johar
K
* Kaura * Kakkar/Kacker * Kapoor/Kapur * Khanna * Khosla * Kapahi * Kapany * Katyal * Khattar/Khattri/Khatri * Khullar * Kohli * kaushal
L
* Lal * Lamba M
* Madhok * Mahana/Mahna * Mahendru/Mahendroo/Mahindru/Maindru * Maini * Malhotra * Mehra * Mehta * Marwah * Makkar N
* Nair/Nayer/Nayyar/Nayar * Nijhawan * Nikhanj * Nanda
O
* Oberoi/Oberai/Obhrai/Uberoi * Ohri
P
* Parwanda * Puri * Pahwar * Passi
S
* Syal/Sayal/Sial * Sabharwal * Sablok * Saggar * Sahi/Shahi * Sahni/Sahani/Sawhney * Suri * Sami * Samnotra * Sareen/Sarin * Sarwal * Saggi * Sehgal/Sahgal * Sekhri * Seth * Sethi * Sibal * Sikand * Sikka * Sobti * Sodhi * Sondhi * Soni
] T
* Talwar * Thamman * Tandan/Tandon * Trehan * Tuli * Thapar
U
* Uberoi * Uppal
V
* Vadehra * Vig/Vij * Vohra/Wouhara
vedi
W
* Wadhawan * Wahie/Wahi * WAHAL * Wadhera
These are The Khatri clans.Some are Still missing but I request you not to change, remove, add any of the clans of Khatri Clans. 122.162.233.31 (talk) 22:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Among Punjabis in Pakistan, along with Jats, Khatris are a majority
Among Punjabis in Pakistan Jats and Khatris are a majority.Mostly they follow Islam(Both Sunni and Shi'a) in Pakistan.So i request you not to remove this statement. 122.163.203.127 (talk) 19:39, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Origin of khatri clans
According to DNA test, it observed that, the Khatri, Tarkhan and Jatt clans have Caucasian, Indo-Scythian, Indo-Aryan, Italic, Slavic, Germanic, Iranian, Baltic, Greek Origin.irequest you not to remove this statement. 122.173.6.206 (talk) 08:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Khatri are not related to Aroras
Khatris are related to Jatts And Tarkhan and are not related to Aroras, so I Request you not to add this statement. 122.173.2.10 (talk) 17:50, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Wrong edits
Why you always edit that Khatris are related to Aroras. 122.173.2.10 (talk) 21:28, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Religion
These are the religions followed by the Khatri people in India, Pakistan and other parts of the world:-
| Religion | Khatri Population % |
|---|---|
| Hinduism | 20% |
| Sikhism | 39% |
| Islam | 40% |
| Jainism | 01% |
I request you not to change this statement. 122.173.2.10 (talk) 21:32, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Religion
These are the religions followed by the Khatri people in India, Pakistan and other parts of the world:-
| Religion | Khatri Population % |
|---|---|
| Hinduism | 20% |
| Sikhism | 39% |
| Islam | 40% |
| Jainism | 01% |
I request you not to change this statement. 122.173.2.10 (talk) 21:33, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
WHERE THE F DID YOU COME UP WITH THOSE FIGURES FROM? THE MAJORITY OF KHATRIS ARE HINDUS BUDDY. GET LOST WITH THISE NONSENSE AND DON'T EVER POST TO THIS PAGE AGAIN
--KhatriNYC (talk) 18:02, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Hey, you crack backstubborn ,don't abuse me.I'am juist telling you that Majority of Khatris are muslims.I am Abdul Fazal Nanda a Muslim Khatri from Gujranwala of Nanda clan. 122.162.142.175 (talk) 13:27, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
First of all, what the heck is a crack backstubborn? How long did it take you to come up with that word? Second, I am not abusing you, I am abusing your idea and non-factual information, so make that clear. You're just telling me that majority of Khatris are Muslims?? what factual information do you have to back that up (references??). I can provide several to show that the majority of Khatris are Hindus. Now, lets see what you got... --KhatriNYC (talk) 17:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Iam sorry man.Please forgive me.I was just telling that Majority of Khatris are muslims. 122.162.142.175 (talk) 22:56, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Khatris are not related to Aroras
Khatris are not related to Aroras and Khatris are related to Jatts and Tarkhan.So i request you not enter the name of Arora tribe in Khatri and also not change the religions. 122.173.8.14 (talk) 14:01, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Listen, for a long time, I use to believe Khatris are not related to Aroras. But these all changed after I did much researach on the topic. The face remains, these two communities are very similar and share much in common, which predates many historical records created by the British. If anything, Aroras are a sub-group of Khatris. All Khatris are not Aroras, but all Aroras are a sub-group of Khatris. Besides, you're not evening posting with a name, you're making your changes anonymously, which is total B.S. Do you understand!? --KhatriNYC (talk) 18:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Content review needed
This article is not encylopedic in tone or content, and probably violates NPOV. Phrases like "Khatris are a fine caste..." reflect a point of view, and need to be sourced. (Who says this?) Sentences such as this lack an encyclopedic style: "All throughout their history Punjab has been their beloved homeland. And it is a slog of destiny that they had to leave their ancestrial home of Punjab upon the partition of India." And so forth.
As a non-Indian hoping to learn more about Khatri, I was disappointed to find the article in this state.. I'm putting a review tag on it. Hopefully some knowledgeable editors can get it up to Wikipedia standards. !melquiades (talk) 04:26, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
I totally agree with this, POV, giving hard opinions and trying to express how "Khatris" all feel collectively should NOT be captured on this page, since the article cannot speak and account for every single Khatri's opinion. --KhatriNYC (talk) 17:27, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Khatris are related to Jatts and Ramgarhia (Tarkhan) and Khatris are not Related to Aroras
Khatris are related to Jatts and Ramgarhia (Tarkhan) and Khatris are not related to Aroras . I am telling you all this because my Ancestors were the relatives of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. I am a Khatri Sikh.It was told by our Ancestors to continous generations of Family that Khatris were different from Aroras .Khatris are a Distinct Tribe.According to our Ancestors, Khatris are Related to Jatts and Tarkhan tribe. Khatris , Jatts and Ramgarhia (Tarkhan) communities are of Suryavanshi Kshatriya, Caucasian, Turkic, Slavic, Germanic, Albanian, Greek, Iranian, Indo-Aryan and Indo-Scythian tribes. So I request you not to remove this statement From Khatri, Jatts and Ramgarhia.Please I want a Quick response from you. 122.162.142.175 (talk) 13:02, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Khatris are not related to Aroras but khatris are related to Jatts and Ramgarhias
According to our ancestors, Khatris are not related to Aroras but khatris are related to Jatts and Ramgarhias.Why don't you beleive me?Please trust me, Iam not lying.Please, I beg in front of you,Please,God promise ,iam not lying. 122.162.142.175 (talk) 16:38, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Whats the matter with you man? get a grip with yourself! Let me explain how this works. Aroras are a sub-group of Khatris. Many Khatris do not recognize them as being Khatri because history shows that Aroras migrated from a different part of India (more then likely, centuries ago from the Sindh and the Multan area), and when they settled in the higher north Punjabi regions, the Khatris did not associate the Aroras with themselves, and called them Arora. --KhatriNYC (talk) 14:33, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
God promise,Iam not lying, my ancestor promise.Please believe me.How can be you so sure that our ancestors were not true?Please man iam just friendly. 122.162.142.175 (talk) 22:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Whats the matter with you man? get a grip with yourself! Let me explain how this works. Aroras are a sub-group of Khatris. Many Khatris do not recognize them as being Khatri because history shows that Aroras migrated from a different part of India (more then likely, centuries ago from the Sindh and the Multan area), and when they settled in the higher north Punjabi regions, the Khatris did not associate the Aroras with themselves, and called them Arora. --KhatriNYC (talk) 19:32, 4 April 2009 (UTC) Man why are you getting angry? 122.162.142.175 (talk) 20:21, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Man please believe me 122.162.142.175 (talk) 20:23, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
To the Moderator............
Please watch the edits made by these IP addresses.
--KhatriNYC (talk) 19:28, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Don't remove
Man why don't you believe me?God promise, Iam not lying. Iam not getting angry with you but your actions of removing statements related to Khatris, Jats and Ramgarhia Tarkhan tribe makes me angry. Iam sorry ,But Iam not lying. If iam lying, I cross my heart and hope to die. 122.162.141.166 (talk) 12:29, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Khatris are not related to Aroras
Khatris are not related to Aroras but Khatris are related to Ramgarhia Tarkhan Tribe, Jat tribe, Gujjar tribe, Rajput tribe, Kamboj Tribe, Lohar Tribe.According to history and my ancestors(who were the relatives of Guru Nanak Dev ji)the descendants of Seven(7) brothers of an Indo-Scythian Nomadic person from Eurasia,Central Asia and North-Eastern Europe,were these 7 tribes.These tribes also have Slavic, Baltic, Caucasian, Indo-Scythian, Indo-Aryan, Albanian, Greek, Germanic and Iranian origin. According Genetic test,it is proved that these tribes are Closely and indirectly related and connected to each other. These tribes also share many haplotypes with Germanic, Caucasian, Slavic, Baltic, Turkic, Albanian, Greek and Central Asian groups.Please,trust me man,Iam not lying Iam not angry with you man, you are just like my family member.God promise, my ancestor promise, Iam not lying.Why don't you trust and believe me?If I am lying I cross my heart and hope to die. So I Respectfully and Kindly request you not Remove this statement, I promise if iam lying I would die.I also want you Add this statement In Khatri, Tarkhan, Ramgarhia, Jat, Gujjar, Lohar, Rajput, Kamboj Articles.Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze, Believe me, God Promise iam not lying. 122.162.141.166 (talk) 19:54, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Origin of Khatri clans and relation of Khatri tribe with other Punjabi tribes
The Khatri tribe is closely and indirectly related and connected to Gujjar, Ramgarhia Tarkhan, Jat, Kamboj, Rajput, Kamboj tribes.These seven tribes are said to be the descendants of the 7 sons of an Indo-Scythian Nomadic person, who, many centuries ago came from North-East Europe.According to genetic test some trace and sources,it is proved that These Seven tribes are closely connected with each other.It also proved that these seven tribes have European, Eurasian and Central Asian lineage.All the clans of these seven tribes also have Germanic, Slavic, Baltic, Turkic, Iranian, Greek, Hun, Indo-Scythian (Saka), Indo-Aryan and Albanian origin.God promise iam not lying Please believe me.So I request you not remove this statement from Khatri, Jat and Ramgarhia. 122.162.205.102 (talk) 14:04, 7 April 2009 (UTC)MSNANDA 123 @ Gmail. com
HELLO MODERATOR
PLEASE have the users who are using the following IPs
STOPPED FROM MAKING EDITS TO THIS ARTICLE, on the grounds that they are not posting with a user name, but just come to this page to cause havic. THANKS --KhatriNYC (talk) 15:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Hello
Sorry man sorry man please now believe me 122.162.205.102 (talk) 08:31, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Khatri (Punjabi: ਖੱਤਰੀ, Hindi: खत्री) is the Punjabi adaptation of Sanskrit word Kshatriya (Hindi: क्षत्रिय, Kşhatriya). The Kshatriya are the traditional members of the Hindu military order. As administrators and rulers, Kshatriya were assigned with protecting Dharma, and serving humanity and the world. In course of time, however, as a result of economic and political exigencies, the Khatri also expanded into other occupations.
Khatris are not warriors. The Khatri community traces its origins to the Potohar, Taxila, Majha regions of the Punjab, and beyond to Central Asia as the early Aryans who migrated to South Asia and settled in the Punjab and Kashmir regions. These regions are historically connected with the composition of the Vedas, the Mahabharata, Ramayana and Puranas as well as more modern religious texts such as the Guru Granth Sahib.
The Khatris are most numerous in the Jalandhar, Rawalpindi, Jhelum, Lahore and Amritsar districts. Another very high concentration of Khatris is in Punjab (India) and Punjab (Pakistan).Khatris are a minority in Delhi. Well integrated into India, from historical times to modern times, the Khatris have played a significant role in the Indian economy, as businessmen, civil and government administrators, landlords and military officials/generals. They can also be found in major towns of Haryana like Karnal, Ambala, Sirsa, Kurukshetra and Hisar. Historically, there were very high concentrations of Khatris in the North-West Frontier Province, notably in Peshawar.
Khatris along with other Punjabi tribes like Tarkhan, Jatts, and Rajputs, historically bore the brunt of all invasions into India yet remaining Indian to the core. Khatris have a significant role in shaping the Punjabi culture. All throughout their history Punjab has been their homeland. When Pakistan and India gained independence, most of the Khatris in what became Pakistan migrated to India. Today Khatris live in all regions of India, but are concentrated in Punjab, Haryana, Delhi, Uttar Pradesh and Gujarat.
Punjabi Khatris were adversely affected by the partition of India, as it resulted in the loss of their traditional home regions. These Khatris migrated to India, where they were forced to start anew their lives. Despite losing their land, businesses, and all other material assets during the partition of India, Khatris earned the clout that they held in pre-partitioned India.
Most Khatris are Hindu or Sikh. Some are Muslim and a smaller minority belong to other faiths such as Jainism. Khatris of all these faiths collectively form one community.
Origin of Khatri clans
The Khatri clans,like Jatt and Tarkhan clans have Caucasian, Indo-Scythian, Indo-Aryan, Baltic, Germanic, Slavic, Greek, Albanian and Iranian origin. Because of this, these three tribes have European, Central Asian and Eurasian Lineage.
Please don't change this.It is mentioned in Indo-Scythian, Jat and Ramgarhia that Khatri tribe is closely related to Jat and Ramgarhia tribes.It is also mentioned that These tribes have Slavic, Baltic, Germanic, Albanian, Turkic, Greek, Hun, Indo-Scythian and Indo-Aryan origin. So Damn request you do not remove, change anything in Khatri. 122.162.205.102 (talk) 09:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
What makes you so damn sure that the page for Jats and Ramgharia page on wikipedia is even accurate? who the heck are you to change this page, you provide no reliable edits, commments, or educated information. WHO do you you think you are removing my Discussion sections from this Discussion board you ignorant s__t????!!! I WILL ASK THE MODERATOR TO BAN YOU FROM THIS PAGE ON THE GROUNDS THAT YOU REMOVE MY DISCUSSION sections without making a case or getting my approval first. DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!?? --KhatriNYC (talk) 13:50, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Please man
Please man don't get angry. Iam sorry .I quick response 122.162.205.102 (talk) 15:02, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
yea I know you're sorry. Your a sorry individual. You need to get a life, because you clearly show you have too much time on your hands if you just come here and try to act like you really are contributing to this article, but, infact, are just trying to be annoying on purpose to cause a fight. Its not hard to figure you out, you're definitely not the brightest of the lot I can tell you that much
--KhatriNYC (talk) 17:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
God promise
My ancestors were the relatives of Guru Nanak Dev Ji.My ancestors told continous generations of our family. God promise and my ancestors promise iam not lying man please believe me. How can be you so sure that my ancestors were not true.If iam taking God promise then you also think that iam lying? I want a quick response. 122.162.205.102 (talk) 15:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
That's all fine and dandy that your ancestors were the relatives of Guru Nanak (more power to you my friend), however, that does not prove anything about what we are discussing here about the Khatri relationship to Aroras, and being of Indo-Aryan lineage.
--KhatriNYC (talk) 18:21, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
According to my ancestors who were the relatives of Guru Nanak Dev Ji , my ancestors told the continous generations of our family that Khatris are related to Jat, Ramgarhia Tarkhan, Gujjar, Kamboj, Rajput and Lohar tribes.If these 6 tribes arre related to Khatri tribe and have Indo-Scythian origin, therefore it is true that Khatris Have Indo-Scythian origin.One more thing According my ancestors,Aroras are not related to Khatris and Aroras are not of Indo-Scythian origin.
Therefore, it is proved that Khatris are not related to Aroras, but Khatris are related to Jat, Ramgarhia Tarkhan, Lohar, Gujjar, Rajput and Lohar tribes. These 7 tribes Indo-Aryan, Indo-Scythian, Germanic, Slavic, Baltic, Celtic, Hun, Caucasian, Turkic, Greek and Albanian ancestral lineage.
God promise i always say the truth.I want quick reponse. 122.162.247.120 (talk) 08:50, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
The Khatris are a prominent Indian community who settled in the Taxila and Majha region of north-western Indian subcontinent during the Aryan migrations. This region is of considerable historical significance in the development of the Indian culture since the composition of the Vedas and classics like the Mahabharata, Ramayana and Puranas.
Khatris are related to Jatts, Tarkhan, Rajput, Lohar, Kamboj and Gujjar. These tribes are descendants of Indo-Scythian (Saka). While all these tribes through generations before have common anscestors and share blood with Celtic, Germanic, Slavic, Baltic, Italic, Greek, Albanian, Caucasian, Indo-Scythian and Indo-Aryan people, there is however a divided amongst them as far as when each settled (during different migration waves) in the North-West Frontier Province, Punjab and Kashmir regions. These groups share many haplotypes with German, Slavic, Iranian, Baltic, and Central Asian groups. According to DNA analysis, these tribes also have European lineage, as the Y-chromosome is found in all these tribes.
Khatris have an extensive military tradition and have excelled in the Armed Forces having received many honors and gallantary awards for their service. Within the Indian Armed Forces (Bharatiya Thalsena) the present Chief of Army Staff of the Indian Army, General Deepak Kapoor is Khatri and he took charge from another Khatri, General Joginder Jaswant Singh Marwah who took charge from another Khatri, General Nirmal Chander Vij.
For the most part, Khatris have served in the civil, government, and military sectors for centuries.[1]. In addition, Khatris have significantly contributed to Indian Cinema since the times of Prithviraj Kapoor and continue to flourish in the arts today.
If iam taking God promise, then how can you say that Iam lying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.162.247.120 (talk) 17:12, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
All the Ten Sikh Gurus were Khatris from the Sodhi, Bedi, Trehan and Bhalla clans which like other Khatri clans, claim Suryavanshi Kshatriya, Indo-Scythian, Caucasian and Indo-Aryan descent according to the autobiographical Bichitra Natak by Guru Gobind Singh.[2]
In Bichitra Natak, it also reffered that Khatris are related to Jat, Gujjar, Kamboj, Lohar, Ramgarhia Tarkhan and Rajput tribes. 122.162.247.120 (talk) 17:21, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
After all this, then you also think that Khatris are not related Jat, Ramgarhia Tarkhan, Gujjar, Kamboj, Lohar and Rajput tribes and like these 6 tribes, Khatris have Same common ancestral linage of Indo-Scythian tribes and share coomon blood with Caucasian, Turkic, Baltic, Slavic, Greek, Albanian, Germanic, Italic, Celtic, Indo-Aryan, Indo-Scythian tribes..[3] 122.162.247.120 (talk) 17:31, 9 April 2009 (UTC) 122.162.247.120 (talk) 17:25, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Man please believe me. 122.162.247.120 (talk) 16:54, 13 April 2009 (UTC) One more thing Khatris are related to Jat, Ramgarhia Tarkhan, Gujjar, Kamboj, Rajput and Lohar tribes and Khatris are not related to Aroras.I can prove this.Because Aroras are related to Ahluwalia.One more reason is that Many common surnames are cross-listed between Jat, Khatri, Ramgarhia Tarkhan, Gujjar, Kamboj, Rajput and Lohar tribes.One more reason is that My ancestors were the relatives of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Jassa Singh Ramgarhia, Hari Singh Nalwa and Banda Singh Bahadur,in which Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Hari Singh Nalwa belonged to Khatri tribe, Jassa Singh Ramgarhia belonged to Tarkhan tribe, Maharaja Ranjit Singh belonged to Sandhawalia tribe of Jats and Banda Singh Bahadur belonged to Minhas Rajput family.Now can you trust me? Please man Iam not lying, I always tell the truth, my ancestors and God promise. My ancestors told the continous generations of our family that Khatris are related Jat, Gujjar, Tarkhan, Lohar and Rajput tribes and these tribes are of Indo-Scythian (Saka), Indo-Aryan, Caucasian, Celtic, Germanic, Central Asian, Albanian, Greek, Slavic, Italic, Baltic, Kshaitrya and Iranian Origin.These tribes also have European, Central Asian and Eurasian Ancestral lineage. 122.162.247.120 (talk) 21:20, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Request
Don't change this please request. 122.162.247.120 (talk) 09:10, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
ON WHAT GROUNDS DO YOU MAKE YOUR CHANGES? YOU PROVIDE NO SUPPORT OR CITATIONS THAT CAN BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS FOR REMOVING CONTENT THAT HAS REFERENCES IN PLACE TO SUPPORT IT. I HAVE GIVEN YOU MANY WARNINGS......
--KhatriNYC (talk) 14:28, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Man please believe me My ancestors promise if iam taking God promise and my ancestor promise then you also think that i am lying.Aroras are not related to Khatris but Aroras are related to Ahluwalia. Khatris are related to Jat, Tarkhan, Gujjar, Kamboj, Rajput, Lohar tribes. I want a quick response RajwantSinghRamgarhia 122.162.247.120 (talk) 15:26, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
One more thing Khatris are related to Jat, Ramgarhia Tarkhan, Gujjar, Kamboj, Rajput and Lohar tribes and Khatris are not related to Aroras.I can prove this.Because Aroras are related to Ahluwalia.One more reason is that Many common surnames are cross-listed between Jat, Khatri, Ramgarhia Tarkhan, Gujjar, Kamboj, Rajput and Lohar tribes.One more reason is that My ancestors were the relatives of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Jassa Singh Ramgarhia, Hari Singh Nalwa and Banda Singh Bahadur,in which Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Hari Singh Nalwa belonged to Khatri tribe, Jassa Singh Ramgarhia belonged to Tarkhan tribe, Maharaja Ranjit Singh belonged to Sandhawalia tribe of Jats and Banda Singh Bahadur belonged to Minhas Rajput family.Now can you trust me? Please man Iam not lying, I always tell the truth, my ancestors and God promise. My ancestors told the continous generations of our family that Khatris are related Jat, Gujjar, Tarkhan, Lohar and Rajput tribes and these tribes are of Indo-Scythian (Saka), Indo-Aryan, Caucasian, Celtic, Germanic, Central Asian, Albanian, Greek, Slavic, Italic, Baltic, Kshaitrya and Iranian Origin.These tribes also have European, Central Asian and Eurasian Ancestral lineage...[4] Nobleeagle 122.162.247.120 (talk) 15:30, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I 100% agree with this man.He is right in my family also my relatives are of Khatri, Jatt, Tarkhan, Rajput, Gujjar, Lohar and Kamboj tribes.
122.163.208.110 (talk) 08:45, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Me to man.
122.163.208.110 (talk) 08:45, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I also support this person. 122.163.208.110 (talk) 08:45, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
We senior citizens support this man. 122.163.208.110 (talk) 08:45, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I went to Gurudwara Bangla Sahib where I came to know that Khatri, Jat, Tarkhan, Rajput, Lohar, Kamboj and Gujjar people had common ancestors through generations, who were of Indo-Scythian origin. --Danaman5 122.163.208.110 (talk) 08:49, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Name of Khatri Sikhs
Khatri Sikhs are also called Jat Sikhs and Ramgarhia Sikhs, because of the relation of Khatri tribe with the Jat and Ramgarhia Tarkhan tribes. --Danaman5
122.163.208.219 (talk) 08:15, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
What is your problem
What is your problem man, why don't you understand.You also do not respond to my suggestions.KHATRIS ARE THE DIRECT DESCENDANTS OF INDO-SCITHYANS AND KHATRIS ARE CLOSELY RELATED TO JATTS, RAJPUT, TARKHAN, GUJJAR, LOHAR, KAMBOJ TRIBES.Khatris are not related to Aroras, But Aroras are related to Ahluwalia, Mohyal and Mazhabi people. Khatris are of Indo-Scythian origin and Khatris are not of Kshaitrya origin. Thats it. Nobleeagle 122.163.208.110 (talk) 08:34, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
List of anonymous IP s used by Cranks to post on this article
I have reintroduced this section , as a very large no of anonymous ips continue to post junk on this page .
Apparently there are several users with an agenda posting junk or deleting content from this page . If you come across one not listed here please add. It may be useful to check the other contributions of these crank ips as well as their WHOIS origin .
Perhaps they may respond to posts on their Discusssion page recording a history of their vandal edits on variou articles .<nr>
Intothefire (talk) 06:40, 29 August 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.163.208.110 (talk) Intothefire (talk) 10:29, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
All Khatri clans are related to Tarkhan and Jatt tribe.Khatri clans are not related to Arora clans.
[[Khatri are related to Tarkhan and Jatt tribe.The Khatri clans, Tarkhan clans and Jatt clans have common Indo-Scythian origin.All the clans of these three tribes are found all the parts of world.People of all the Khatri clans and some Jatt and Tarkhan clans are found among Punjabi Hindus, Punjabi Muslims and Sikhs.These clans of these three tribes are found as a majority in Punjab of Pakistan.Arora tribe is not found in Punjab of Pakistan.The Arora tribe is different from The Jatt, Khatri and Tarkhan tribes.So, I request you not remove any topic to related to Relation Jatts, Khatris and Tarkhan tribes.also, do not remove or change the Khatri, Tarkhan and Jatt clans and I also request you not change any article related to Jatts, Tarkhan, Khatris.Because, according to the census of 1951 to 2001,it is reported that many Khatri people of all 52 clans of Khatri tribe(Including Khukhran Khatris) are living along with Jatts and Tarkhan are living All the parts of Pakistan ,Northern India and other parts of world.The relegions followed by the people of all the clans of these three tribes are Islam(Both Sunni and Shi'a), Sikhism and Hinduism.I am not threatening you, but your actions of removing topics from the articles (Mentioned above) makes me angry.Please don't get angry.I like your website Wikipedia.if you are getting angry, for that I am sorry.But I want to know ,why you are removing the information ? 122.163.208.110 (talk) 12:46, 27 April 2009 (UTC) He is right please accept this. --Danaman5
This man is absolutely 100% right.Please do add this. Nobleeagle
I have also read in a history book which tells that Khatris are related to Jat, Tarkhan, Rajput, Gujjar, Kamboj and Lohar tribes.
Sorry man
Please man don't protect this page I request you i will never do this again.I want a quick response. I am Sorry . I apologize . But please don't do this.my name is msnanda. User:msnanda
when was the last time you got laid bro? you have way too much time on your hands. Go get a girlfriend, and stop being so bored in life. You know everyone on this page can tell you are a loner right?
--KhatriNYC (talk) 18:05, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
First thing iam a 10 year old boy. Can you do one thing, just remove the protection. User:msnandaMsnanda (talk) 13:06, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
- Wait out the protection and go do something else for the time being. Momo san Gespräch 14:44, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Remove Aroras
Please just remove that Arora tribe is related to Khatri tribe and add that Khatris are closely related to Jatt, Tarkhan, Rajput, Lohar, Kamboj and Gujjar tribes[6].These 7 tribes also have Indo-Scythian origin along with European, Central Asian and Eurasian lineage as Y-Chromosome is found in These 7 tribes.user:msnanda--Msnanda (talk) 11:42, 30 April 2009 (UTC) Msnanda (talk) 11:16, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Why are you so adament on removing this, when you provide no citations for your bogus facts? You cannot use other Wiki pages to as support/citations since these themselves are inputted by users like you and me. I suggest you refrain from making anymore edits to this page, you clearly are not a positive contributor.
--KhatriNYC (talk) 14:28, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
- If Msnanda is going to make these bogus edits when the protection ends, then the page will have to be protected again. This is why it got protected in the first place, to force discussion to the talk page which is happening above. Momo san Gespräch 14:40, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
OK iam sorry i will never do this.But just remove the names of all the tribes amd write that Khatris are of Indo-Scythian origin.[7] user:Msnanda 122.162.136.131 (talk) 08:38, 2 May 2009 (UTC) Man how can you say that my ancestors were wrong.How do you know that While Aroras and Ahluwalias had common ancestors. First of all my family use the surname nanda,but my real surname is Virdi. and i am a Khatri, my cousins either have Jat, Ramgarhia or Khatri surnames.Now can you believe me. user:Msnanda 122.162.136.131 (talk) 18:03, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Historians derive "Jat" fom "Gatae", "Ahir" from "Avar", "Saka" from "Scythii", "Gujjar and Khatri" from "Khazar", "Thakur and Tarkhan (Punjab)" from "Tukharian", "Saurashtra" from "Saura Matii" or "Sarmatians", "Sisodia" (a Rajput clan) from "Sassanian" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Msnanda (talk • contribs) 11:18, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Please man believe me.iam not lying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Msnanda (talk • contribs) 11:27, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I need an answer.usermsnanda Msnanda (talk) 13:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC) It also referred in Arora that Khatris are not related Aroras and Aroras are related to Ahluwalia tribe. user:msnanda122.162.49.196 (talk) 11:57, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Iam gonna change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.173.7.136 (talk) 09:32, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
You ain't gonna change jack sh*t you loser using IP 122.173.7.136! Don't even try it son, you will get torched
--KhatriNYC (talk) 15:51, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Listen KhatriNYC.I just want to tell you Khatris are related to Jatt, Tarkhan, Rajput, Lohar, Gujjar and Kamboj people. Why don't you understand.Many times I have told you that my ancestors were the relatives of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Guru Nanak Dev Ji told our relatives and our relatives and ancestors told the continous generations of the family that Khatris are closely related to Jatt, Tarkhan, Rajput, Lohar, Gujjar and Kamboj tribes. My cousins or the relatives either are Jatt having Khatri , Ramgarhia, Jatt, Lohar , Gujjar, and Kamboj surnames, Ramgarhia of Khatri, Jatt, Lohar, Kamboj, Gujjar ad Rajput surnames and so on. So the why don't you believe me, 100 times i told you the same thing. One more thing i forgot to tell you that Aroras were a part of Ahluwalia tribe during the formation of Khalsa. The Ahluwalia people, who migrated to Aror/Arorkot, Sindh came to be known as Aroras. Than you still want to prove that Khatris are related Aroras. Why you want this?Aroras and Ahluwalias had common ancestors, while the Khatris, Jatts, Tarkhan people, Gujjar, Rajputs, Lohars and Kamboj people had common ancestors.One more thing is that Khatri, jatt, Ramgarhia, Lohar, Kamboj, Gujjar and Rajput people have Indo-Scythian and Indo-Aryan origin origin.While the Aroras Ahluwalias have only Indo-Aryan origin. Still you don't believe me, than reply--Msnanda (talk) 07:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
What the hell are you doing. Not Responding.HAHAHAHA man I am your friend. Why don't you reply. You have no answer.I know you want me to change this page.--Msnanda (talk) 07:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Look KhatriNYC,lets just be friendly.I just told you my ancestors were the relatives of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and my some ancestors were Also Jatt, Ramgarhia, Rajput, Lohar, Khatri, Gujjar, Kamboj people.Why don't you understand me you never reply until and unless i change something on this page.What is the problem with you man.please man i am begging in front of you.Please reply--Msnanda (talk) 20:05, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
What the hell!Listen, you don't know how to answer my Question.Why don't you answer--Msnanda (talk) 22:10, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Khatris and Europeans
Someone has inserted:
- The Khatri clans,like Jatt and Tarkhan clans have Celtic, Caucasian, Indo-Scythian, Indo-Aryan, Baltic, Germanic, Slavic, Greek, Albanian and Iranian origin. Because of this, these three tribes have European, Central Asian and Eurasian Lineage.
It does not make sense.
Khatris are similar to other communities in Pothohar and nearby regions and are associated with some of the supposed "aryan" attributes like a lighter skin. Afghans too were aryan (and Hindu). That does not make them similar to Europeans. Ultimately, all the humanity is interrelated.
What is this fascination with Europeans?
It is totally misleading to include European maps. Khatris are people mainly from the Indian subcontinent, although like many other Indians, a few of them have emigrated overseas.--ISKapoor (talk) 17:49, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
- Agree with ISKapoor further
- This article needs some serious deletion of superfluous and uncorroborated content.
- The inclusion of the abundant collection of flags is simply self-indulgent tripe .
- The relation with Indo Scythian seems like OR , unless substantiated with references from verifiable and credible sources .
- Lastly the obsessive insertions linking Khatris with Jats and Tarkhan , and delinking with Aroras , whats this about ?
Seems like a funny fixation/obsession with a user who keep posting exactly this type of content on scores of pages , un accompanied as it is without with proper citations . Intothefire (talk) 01:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
You are right man . Khatris are not europeans,but they also not related to Aroras.I telll you my ancestors were the relatives of Guru Nanak Dev ji and my relatives are either Jatt, Khatri or ramgarhia.the different thing is that Khatris are of Indo-Scythian origin. Khatris have close genetic and ethnic relations with Jatt, Ramgarhia, Rajput, Lohar, Gujjar and Kamboj people.Please man trust me God promise iam not lying.Reply fast--Msnanda (talk) 14:59, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
- Hi user Msnanda
- lol ....why dident you say earlier !
- Cheers Intothefire (talk) 06:13, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Needs to be reorganized
The article is well written, but should follow the wikipedia guidelines and improve on the organisation of the article. All editors are therefore requested to take appropriate steps in re-organizing the article and make it more reader friendly. The article has been written more haphazardly which may confuse the readers. Cheers Nefirious (talk) 06:50, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Dubious claims
I find this hard to believe that the 'Khatirs' had a European connection. This is a dubious claim. The reference given also does not seem to be promising. I am looking for a more comprehensive and satisfying explanation for this. A more authentic reference or a source will suffice my queries and doubts.Nefirious (talk) 07:19, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Iam not saying that Khatris have connection with Europeans. My ancestors were the Realtives of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and my ancestors told that Khatris are related to Jatts, Rajputs, Gujjars, Lohars, Tarkhans and Kamboj people.These Seven tribes are the descendants of Indo-Scythians. You know that Indo-Scyhtians came from Siberia, so it can be possible that Khatri have european connections.No European but some Central Asian connections.But it is sure that Khatris have no relations with Aroras.Because Aroras have genetic relations with Ahluwalias. Khatris and Aroras are different people.Please Believe me.--Msnanda (talk) 16:58, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
- 'Strongly Agree with Nefirious
- If dubious claims continue unsubstantiated all such content should be removed
- 'Strongly Agree with Nefirious
Intothefire (talk) 07:28, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
This user is a serial vandal and nonsense posting user .
Every single post over many articles are simplyUnsubstantiated .
This includes its european connection posts and other pet obsessions .
Intothefire (talk) 07:28, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
OK I am gonna remove it.--Msnanda (talk) 08:13, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
OK i apologize please i am MSNANDA.--122.173.243.55 (talk) 17:37, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Request unprotection and let give unprotection a try. --KJTRGKL (talk) 23:32, 17 July 2009 (UTC). Thats it.--KJTRGKL (talk) 08:45, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
I say no way to your request KJTRGKL.....you're a huge trouble maker to this article. You do not deserve to make any changes, since you provide no citations. I think the contributors to this page have spoken, and they agree with me.
--KhatriNYC (talk) 05:10, 20 July 2009 (UTC)--KhatriNYC (talk) 05:10, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
- This protection is not an endorsement of the current version. Claims made without verifiable source may be removed but it doesn't mean current version is supported by any wikipedian contributor.
And to KhatriNYC (talk · contribs), please read WP:FIES, Edit summary is important field. You can not just revert other user's edit without explaining the reason for it. History of this page is evidence of your irresponsible behavior and harsh statements directed towards fellow editors. These are not accepted practice at Wikipedia. Please read WP:3RR too. If you do not follow the guidelines or bite newcomers or make harsh comments towards other editors then I will recommend your block from Wikipedia. Thanks!!!!! Hitro talk 07:17, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Iam sorry but do one thing just remove the names of all the tribes.122.173.247.202 (talk) 15:13, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Hey Iam backMsnanda (talk) 05:27, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Khatris are of Kshatriya and Indo-Scythian (Saka)[8][9][10] origin. Therefore, Khatris are closely related (both genetically and ethnically) to these other tribes who are of Indo-Scythians (Saka) origin - Jats/Jatts, Tarkhan (Punjab) (Ramgarhia), Rajput, Lohar, Kamboj and Gujjar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.161.46.169 (talk) 12:36, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Praise the lord, Msnanda is back.....we all here missed you terribly, we were quite lost without you. We're so happy you have returned that we cannot express our joy enough. What has happend to your alter user name....err, i mean your cousin??
--KhatriNYC (talk) 14:45, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Don't worry user:KJTRGKL is a pshycho and i completely apoligise on the behalf of me and my cousin.SORRY. Msnanda (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.161.46.169 (talk) 15:22, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
{{editprotected}}--Msnanda (talk) 13:07, 25 July 2009 (UTC) {{Editsemiprotected}}
Please unprtect the page Khatri.--Msnanda (talk) 13:09, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Not done: I suggest you request it at WP:RFPU, but I doubt it will be unprotected due to the level of dispute at the moment. — Deontalk 14:21, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Sir Please, unprotect the page Khatri--KJTRGKL (talk) 16:51, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Sir please, can you give me a chance for editing the page Khatri by Unprotecting the page? Please Sir unprotect the page.--Msnanda (talk) 07:40, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Sir please--Msnanda (talk) 16:43, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
About Msnanda
To the best of my knowledge, every single contribution by Msnanda is vandalism. He has inserted arbitrary and michievious information in Khatri and Arora pages.--ISKapoor (talk) 19:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Please Help !
Someone, please unprotect the page.--Msnanda (talk) 07:22, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
I would suggest leaving this page locked indefinitely. Msnanda is a trouble maker who disrupts this page repeatidly. Look at his history of posts if you need proof. With the urging of others, please keep this page locked or ban Msnanda from this page. He changes the page without any disucssion, and then I have to always revert it back to the original. Thanks!
--KhatriNYC (talk) 14:35, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Mr KhatriNYC iam sorry now iam gonna discuss things before editing them. Please believe me. But unprotect the page.--Msnanda (talk) 21:14, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Some Source pages
[11][12][13] are some of the source pages, please check them if you want to, than answer that whether i write that Khatris are of indo-scythian origin and are related to Jats, Tarkhans, Gujjars, Lohars, Rajputs and Kambojas or i write nothing.--Msnanda (talk) 07:17, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
RPP
I am requesting for page protection for all related articles as well. Msnanda seems desperate to edit this article JUST to inflate his count. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 10:36, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
No Mr Rsrikanth05, iam not doing anything against you please believe me i want to be friendly with you. --Msnanda (talk) 14:49, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
{{adoptme|20090801145908}}--Msnanda (talk) 14:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
- Please use {{adoptme}} on your user page. Regards SoWhy 13:46, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Better Version of the article page
Many references and citations from verifiable and reliable sources have been removed from this page
by various users .Here's a Better Version of this page that carried these references .
Intothefire (talk) 11:08, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
there are other khatri clans (NUKH)
i could not find the nukh/clans of khatri living almost many other parts of world. total nukh are 96, out of 17 nukh have been not mentioned in wikipedia encyclopedia. e.i. mando, dandu, sonija, dara, wada, chhatpat, bheda, gela, wade, khowa, danver etc. if some one interested i can give ful list of 17 clans/nukh. i am mando and muslim khatri, living in usa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mando36us (talk • contribs) 03:29, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
I would suggest to remove the total world population figures....
on the grounds that these numbers on represent the people REPORTED, and not the total population. there is a big difference between people who surveyed and reported themselves as Khatris vs. those who did not take the survey at all from the Joshua Project. My guess is the total Khatris in the world is much greater then 3.5 million, considered the fact that India alone has 1.3 billion people. Thanks
--KhatriNYC (talk) 15:46, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Description of "Khatri Caste" from the GAZETTEER LUDHIANA by Government of Indian State of Punjab, India
| “ | Khatris. – Khatri is a popular variant of the Sanskrit word Kashtrya[14][15][16], which was used to describe the warrior caste among the Hindu according to the varanashram propounded by the Shastras. In course of time as a result of economic and political exigencies, however, the Khatris also resorted to mercantile occupations, which were originally adopted by the Vaisas, the trading classes. Like Brahmans there are further sub-divisions amongst Khatris-Bannjais, Sarin, Dhaigharas, chargharas, etc. in the reign of Alaudin Khiliji widoe re-marriage was enforced. Fifty-two castes of Khatris are said to have submitted a memorandum, duly signed, to the Emperor. The signatory castes are called Banjais. Certain castes of eastern Punjab refused to sign the memorandum and were called Shari-Ain, later corrupted to that of Sarin. The Khokhrain baradari is said to consist of the descendants of certain families of Khatris who were believed to have joined the Khokhars in a rebellion and with them other Khatri families were loath to have matrimonial relations. The Bahri section of the descendants of Mehr Chand, Khan Chand and Kapur Chand, three Khatris who went to Delhi in attandance upon one of Akhar’s Rajput wives, and who thus separated from rest of the Khatri castes, married only within each other’s families.8 (8.These appear to be conjectural for the same division appears among the Brahmans of western plains.) the number of the members of this caste is fairly large. The more prominenty, however, in point of social rank are the Mehra or Mehrotra, Khanna, Kapur and the Seth sub-castes. |
” |
Source: Castes, People, GAZETTEER LUDHIANA, Department of Revenue, Government of Punjab (India)[18]
Reinserting original referenced text "Description of Khatris from the GAZETTEER LUDHIANA by Government of Indian State of Punjab, India"
See: 05:57, 21 November 2008 Atulsnischal (talk | contribs) (23,921 bytes) (→Description of "Khatri Caste" from the GAZETTEER LUDHIANA by Government of Indian State of Punjab, India); Khatri&oldid=253139285
References
- ^ As Kshatriyas
- ^ "Sri Dasam Granth Sahib". Sridasam.org. Retrieved 2008-11-15.
- ^ "Sri Dasam Granth Sahib". Sridasam.org. Retrieved 2008-11-15.
- ^ "Sri Dasam Granth Sahib". Sridasam.org. Retrieved 2008-11-15.
- ^ Gazetteer of the Rawalpindi District Published by Sang -e-meel Publications ,Lahore , Pakistan
- ^ http://yawiki.org/proc/Jat#4
- ^ http://www.jattworld.com/portal/modules/newbb_plus/archive.php?forum=3&topic_id=2894
- ^ http://jatts.com/bolo/overview/
- ^ http://india.smashits.com/wikipedia/Saka
- ^ fateh.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/78f5a2ff8906d1788725657c00732d6c/237e558846bb32c0872569cf005986ae!OpenDocument
- ^ http://jatts.com/bolo/overview/
- ^ http://india.smashits.com/wikipedia/Saka
- ^ fateh.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/78f5a2ff8906d1788725657c00732d6c/237e558846bb32c0872569cf005986ae!OpenDocument
- ^ People, GAZETTEER LUDHIANA, Department of Revenue, Government of Punjab (India), Homepage: [2]
- ^ GAZETTEER AMRITSAR ,Department of Revenue, Government of Punjab (India) (First Edition 1976)
- ^ GAZETTEER OF INDIA PUNJAB FARIDKOT
- ^ Castes, People, GAZETTEER LUDHIANA, Department of Revenue, Government of Punjab (India), Accessed on November 15, 2008; Homepage: [3]
- ^ Castes, People, GAZETTEER LUDHIANA, Department of Revenue, Government of Punjab (India), Accessed on November 15, 2008; Homepage: [4]
mrigthrishna (talk) 00:30, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
Khatri Family Names
Main article: List of Khatri surnames on Wiktionary
Origin and Distribution
The Khatris are a prominent Indian community of Indo-Sythian who settled in the Taxila and Majha region of north-western Indian subcontinent. This region is of considerable historical significance in the development of the Indian culture since the composition of the Vedas and classics like the Mahabharata, Ramayana and Puranas.
Khatris, Jatts and Tarkhan are descendants of Indo-Scythian(Saka tribes) tribes who settled much later into the Punjab region These groups share many haplotypes with German, Slavic, Iranian, Baltic, and Central Asian groups. According to DNA analysis. These tribes also have European lineage, as the Y-chromosome is found in all these tribes.Khatris are Closely connected with Jat, Ramgarhia Tarkhan, Rajput, Lohar, Gujjar, Kamboj tribes.
Khatris have an extensive military tradition and have excelled in the Armed Forces having received many honors and gallantary awards for their service. Within the Indian Armed Forces (Bharatiya Thalsena) the present Chief of Army Staff of the Indian Army, General Deepak Kapoor is Khatri and he took charge from another Khatri, General Joginder Jaswant Singh Marwah who took charge from another Khatri, General Nirmal Chander Vij.
For the most part, Khatris have served in the civil, government, and military sectors for centuries.[1]. In addition, Khatris have significantly contributed to Indian Cinema since the times of Prithviraj Kapoor and continue to flourish in the arts today.
Description of "Khatri Caste" from the GAZETTEER LUDHIANA by Government of Indian State of Punjab, India
Khatris. – Khatri is a popular variant of the Sanskrit word Kashtrya, which was used to describe the warrior caste among the Hindu according to the varanashram propounded by the Shastras. In course of time as a result of economic and political exigencies, however, the Khatris also resorted to mercantile occupations, which were originally adopted by the Vaisas, the trading classes.
Like Brahmans there are further sub-divisions amongst Khatris-Bannjais, Sarin, Dhaigharas, chargharas, etc. in the reign of Alaudin Khiliji widoe re-marriage was enforced. Fifty-two castes of Khatris are said to have submitted a memorandum, duly signed, to the Emperor. The signatory castes are called Banjais. Certain castes of eastern Punjab refused to sign the memorandum and were called Shari-Ain, later corrupted to that of Sarin. The Khokhrain baradari is said to consist of the descendants of certain families of Khatris who were believed to have joined the Khokhars in a rebellion and with them other Khatri families were loath to have matrimonial relations. The Bahri section of the descendants of Mehr Chand, Khan Chand and Kapur Chand, three Khatris who went to Delhi in attandance upon one of Akbar’s Rajput wives, and who thus separated from rest of the Khatri castes, married only within each other’s families.8 (8.These appear to be conjectural for the same division appears among the Brahmans of western plains.) the number of the members of this caste is fairly large. The more prominenty, however, in point of social rank are the Mehra or Mehrotra, Khanna, Kapur and the Seth sub-castes.
Prior to partition certain castes, such as churamani, Nanda. Khullar, Jerath, Chopra and Vij were particularly associated with Ludhiana; Behl, Kapoor, Mehra, Seth, Berri Sencher and Dhir with jagraon; Batte, sondhi and Karir with Machhiwara and Bahlolpur; sehgal and Thapar with Rai kot and Had and Cham with Khanna and Sally, Sanan and Handa with Batala. After partition different castes of Khatris have been widely dispersed with the result that it is very difficult to ascertain their numbers caste-wise, especially because compilation of statistics according to castes has been discontinued since 1947.
Khatris are generally mild in disposition. They are mostly literate and law abiding.Khatris in the district are a great commercial class. They have also made their mark in industry. In Payal sub-tahsil they are generally land-owners. They also engage themselves in Government or private service[2]
Source: Castes, People, GAZETTEER LUDHIANA, Department of Revenue, Government of Punjab (India)[3]
Prominent historical Khatris
One of the most important character of famous Punjabi legend Raja Rasalu is minister Mahita Chopra,[4][5] Most scholars agree that Raja Rasalu ruled from Sialkot and lived sometime between 400 to 500 AD.[6] If it is true then Chopra clan name originated in that time.[7]
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Many prominent historical figures have emerged from the Khatri. All ten Sikh Gurus were Khatri. Three out of the five "dear fives" Chosen by Guru Gobind singh were so called Dalits or low castes. This clearly reinforces the fact that people do not become superior by being khatris, jatts or Brahmins. The four gots of Sikh gurus existed at least since 15th century AD: As also the names of most Khatris included the word 'Dev', such as Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Guru Angad Dev Ji etc.
- Guru Nanak: Bedi
- Guru Angad: Trehan
- Guru Amar Das: Bhalla
- All seven others: Sodhi
Raja Fateh Chand was a Maini Khatri chieftain of Bihar who served Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji with dedication during his visit in 1665. Raja Fateh Chand and his wife converted their house into a dharamsala for the sangat or devotees to assemble in holy congregation. The place came to be known as Maini Sangat. On the site now stands Gurdwara Bal Lila Maini Sangat.
Haqiqat Rai was a Puri Khatri whose martyrdom was celebrated on Basant Panchami in Lahore until independence. Hari Singh Nalwa,[8] Maharaja Ranjit Singh's most feared general was an Uppal Khatri. The father and son pair of the Diwans Sawan Mal and Mul Raj Chopra were successive governors of Multan under Ranjit Singh.
Khatris and Sun Worship
Raja Vanvihari Kapoor has written that major Khatri clans are named after Lord Sun.[9] are mentioned below.
- Kripakar Kapur Priests: Pambu
- Shankan Khanna Priests: Jhingana
- Martanada Tandon Priests: Jhingana
- Mitra Mehra Priests: Jetali
- Shreshtha Seth
- Mahendra Mahindru
- Bahukar Bahora (Vohra)
- Chakravali Chaupada (Chopra)
- Karalagni Kakkar Priests: Kumadiye
- Surya Suri
- Sahasrakar Sahgal Priests: Mohile
According to the Bhavishya Purana, Punjab indeed was an ancient center of Sun worship.
Sanatan Khatris
A majority of Khatris are Sanatan Hindus.[10] As noted in the introduction, the Khatri community have been positioned in roles of administration, rule and warfare within Punjab. The Khatris were the patrons ('yajamansas' or in Punjabi 'jajmani') of the Saraswat Brahmins.[9] The Khatris are among the very few non-Brahmin communities that have traditionally studied the Vedas.[11] Additionally, Saraswat Brahmins accept both Kachcha and Pakka food from Khatri's.
Arya Samaj Khatris
Swami Dayanand was invited to Punjab to counter the missionaries by prominent individuals who also founded the Singh Sabha. He established Arya Samaj in Lahore in 1877, which was against casteism, rituals, idol worship and promoted strict monotheism, which he claimed was the essential message of the Vedas. Arya Samaj became popular among Punjabi Hindus, especially Khatris[12] who were attracted to a similar message by the Sikh Gurus earlier.[13] Arya Samaj inspired individuals like Swami Shraddhanand and institutions like Dayanand Anglo-Vedic Schools System started by Lala Hansraj.[14]
Sikh Khatris
A portion of the Khatris are Sikh.[15] All the Ten Sikh Gurus were Khatris from the Sodhi, Bedi, Trehan and Bhalla clans which like other Khatri clans, claim Suryavanshi Kshatriya, Indo-Scythian, Caucasian and Indo-Aryan descent according to the autobiographical Bichitra Natak by Guru Gobind Singh.[16] During the lifetime of the Gurus, most of their major supporters and Sikhs were Khatris. A list of this is provided by Bhai Gurdas in Varan Bhai Gurdas, a contemporary of the Sikh Gurus.[17]
The martial development by the Sikh Gurus is well documented, with the first master (Guru Nanak Dev) Ji, calling upon Sikhs to make a "ball of their head" to play the game of love. The second Guru (Guru Angad Dev) Ji encouraged physical activities of Sikhs by encouraging wrestling bouts and Kabaddi. The 6th Guru (Guru Hargobind Dev) Ji took up the sword and fought many battles against neighboring Rajputs and Mughals. The 9th Guru Guru Teg Bahadhur Dev Ji fought many battles with the 6th Guru and was an accomplished martial artist. The 10th master Guru Gobind Singh Ji, was proficient in the art of warfare as well as an accomplished swordsman, marksman and equestrian. The tenth Guru's maternal side of the family were accomplished warriors and fighters in their own right. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's maternal uncle, Kirpal Chand Ji served as a General in Guru Hargobind Ji army and guided Guru Gobind Singh ji from an early age.
The sacred sections of the Khatris :-There are four sacred sections among the Khatris, whose position must be touched upon, These are the:-
Bedi (Guru Nanak Dev) Ji of the Dharman-Bunjahi or Chota -Sarin sub group.
Sodhi (Last seven Gurus) of the Chota Sarin sub-Group.
Trehan (Guru Angad Dev) Ji of the Bara-Sarin sub group
Bhalla (Guru Amar Das) Ji of the Bara-Sarin sub group.
These four sections became sanctified by the births of the various Sikh Gurus to them[18]
Sahib Singh Bedi (1756-1834), was tenth in direct descent from Guru Nanak Dev Ji, and much revered in Sikh times for his piety as well as for his martial prowess. He was born at Dera Baba Nanak, Gurdaspur district. At the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's coronation at Lahore on April 11, 1801, Baba Sahib Singh Bedi placed the tilak or mark of sovereignty on Ranjit Singh's forehead anoiting him Maharaja of Punjab.
Bhai Binod Singh, was a Khatri of the Trehan clan and a direct descendent of the second Sikh Guru Guru Angad Dev Ji. Bhai Binod Singh was a devoted disciple of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and was one of the few Sikhs to accompany the tenth master to the South in 1708. Bhai Binod Singh fought many battles as a Commander and was leader of the Tatt Khalsa, (True Khalsa). It was Bhai Binod Singh whose Tatt Khalsa declared the official Sikh Warcry to be Sat Sri Akal.
Bhai Daya Singh- Was a Khatri of the Sobti clan and the "first" of the Panj Pyare
. In the historic divan in the Keshgarh Fort at Anandpur on 30 March 1699, Bhai Daya Singh was the first to rise at the Guru's call and offer his head.
During the reign of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, the Misl that was always ahead of other Misls and continuously moving ahead and helping other Sikh Misls was the Dallewalia Misl, founded and led by Gulab Singh Dallewalia a Khatri Sikh.
One head of the family Baba Tikka Baba Harbhajan Singh Bedi is based in Chandigarh, India. Tikka Baba Harbhajan Singh Bedi is the 16th Descendent in the bloodline starting from Guru Nanak Dev Ji with two sons Tikka Surjinder Singh Bedi and Kunwar Arvinder Singh Bedi. Arvinder Singh Bedi is blessed with two sons Tikka Nain Noor Singh Bedi and Kunwar Gagandeep Singh Bedi making the 18th current bloodline starting from Guru Nanak Dev Ji.
Many Hindu Khatri families raised at least one Sikh son after the formation of the Khalsa in 1699. This resulted in Khatri clan names being present in both Hindu and Sikh communities worldwide.
Jain Khatris
The number of Khatris who are Jain is very small. However, one of the best known Jain munis in recent times, Acharya Atmaram (also known as Shri Vijayanandsuri<\ref>The Svetambar Murtipujak Jain Mendicant, by John E. Cort Man, 1991 Royal Anthropological Institute of Great Britain and Ireland.
Muslim Khatris
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Majority of Khatris are Muslim. The Muslim Khatri (Urdu: کهتری ) are the Khatri converts to Islam. With the advent of Islam following invasions by Turkic tribes from Afghanistan and the North West Frontier Province from the 11th century onwards, there were conversions of Hindus to the faith from among various Punjabi communities, including Khatris.Generally they retained their tribal, clan or caste affiliations as has been the norm in the region. Similarly, the Khatris who converted to Islam, continue to retain a strong social identity and are known as Punjabi Shaikhs.
Pakistan continues to have a prominent community of Khatris known as Punjabi Shaikhs as well as Khawaja Shaikhs. Some Muslim Khatris like the Sahgal family,Aftab Ahmed Vohra,Najam Sethi,etc of Pakistan are examples of well-known and successful Muslim Khatris. They are also known as Qanungoh Shaikh, Khoja and Chiniotis.
In addition to these Punjabi speaking Muslim Khatris, the Urdu-speaking Punjabi Saudagaran-e-Delhi community are also of Khatri ancestry. Historically, this community lived in Delhi, and other north Indian towns, but after the partition of India, they have all moved to Pakistan.In Pakistan also the Muslim Khatris are expanded to various occupations.
Khatris in Central Asia
The Khatris, along with Aroras and Lohanas engaged in trade in Central Asia.[19][20] The Hindu temples of Kabul and the Hindu Fire Temple of Baku built and maintained by them still exist.
Khatri Organizations
The sessions of Akhil Bhartiya Khatri Mahasabha were held in Lucknow in 1916, 1936, 1952 and 1980. Lucknow Khatri Sabha was established in 1927 and publication Khatri Hitashi was started in 1936.[21]
Divisions among the Khatris
There are social divisions within the community which includes the Dhai-Ghar (2&1/2 Houses), Bara-Ghar (12 Houses), Bunjahi (52 Houses), Sarin and Kukhran Khatris.[10]
The Bunjahi Khatris include the Bedi and Sodhi clans, to which belonged the founders of the Sikh faith.
Divisions recorded in the Ain-i-Akbari
Divisions among the Khatri groups were reported by Emperor Akbar's close adviser Abu'l Fazal in his book Ain-i-Akbari (compiled in 1590 AD).[22][23]
There are several subdivisions within the Khatri clans. There are the Dhai Ghar (i.e. 2 1/2 houses - the number 3 being considered unlucky) grouping comprising of Mehra/Mehrotra/Mehrota/Malhotra, Khanna and Kapur/Kappor/Kapoor.[24] Along with the Seth clan these four subdivisions form the Char Ghar (4 houses) grouping.[10]
According to H.A. Rose's book, Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and NWFP, Chopra, Dhawan, Gandhoke, Kakar, Mahindru, Sahgal, Soni, Talwar, Tandon, Vohra, Wadhaun, and Wahi, all form the Barah-Jati group of Khatris.
[10] Another group is called Bavanjai (52).[10] Other regional clan groupings include the Sarin and the Kukhran.
Regionally Nanda, Khullar, Jerath, Chopra and Vig were particularly connected with Ludhiana; Bahl, Kapoor, Mehra, Seth, Beri, and Dhir with Jagraon; Sondhi with Machhiwara and Bahlolpur; Sehgal and Thapar with Raikot; Gulla with Sahowala, Bhopalwala - Daska Gujranwala - Sialkot, Delhi & Ghaziabad and Had and Cham with Khanna[25]
Kukhran
Kukhran (also spelt Khukhrain/Kukhrain) are a regional subcaste of Khatris[10] of nine clans of Punjab, originally from the town of Bhera in the Jech doab (Jhelum - Chenab interfluve) region of Sargodha district of Pakistani Punjab. A significant number of Kukhrans, along with other major Khatri groups, adopted Sikhism during the 18th and 19th centuries. The nine Kukhran family names are Anand, Bhasin, Chadha, Chandok, Kohli, Sabharwal, Sahni/Sawhney, Sethi and Suri. The Prime Minister of India, Dr. Manmohan Singh is a Kukhran of the Kohli clan.
WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE???!!!!
STOP MESSING AROUND WITH THIS PAGE. YOU LEAVE ME NO CHOICE, I am not going to consult an admin to re-lock this article.
--KhatriNYC (talk) 16:13, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
"Tribes of Indo-Scythians (Saka) origin"
There has been a recent theory, promoted by some Pakistanis and Khalistanis, that people of Punjab are actually "Saka" and are thus different from other supposedly inferior Hindus. This ridiculus theory has been embedded in several Wikipedia articles.
Here is an example: see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sakastan&oldid=40902105 by Mr. Farhan Siddiqui, who has been at it for many year.
Please remove such inserts when you come across them.--ISKapoor (talk) 18:01, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
Khatris in Afghanistan
Article says:
- Some Pakistani Khatris have migrated to Afghanistan (Kabul, Herat) and speak languages like Pashto, Dari, Urdu, while some Hindu and Sikh Khatris also live in Afghanistan and are involved mostly in the mercantile business.
Truth is that Khatris have been Afghanistan and nearby regions long before emegance of Pakistan. Remember that Afghanistan has had many Kshatriya rulers, see Hinduism in Afghanistan.--ISKapoor (talk) 18:10, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
KHATRIS ARE A TRADITIONAL WARRIOR CASTE, NOT MERCHANTS YOU IGNORANT FOOLS
IN INDIA WE NEVER HEARD OF A KHATRI (A MERCHANT CASTE) BEING REFERRED TO AS A KSHATRIYA (WARRIOR). Nijjar —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.88.88.154 (talk) 17:09, 23 July 2009 (UTC) Go tell that to Msnanda.. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 10:32, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
- khatri is the cast from which all ten sikh gurus came from and it is a warrior caste and are traditional kshatriyas like rajputs etc, and even their gotras are similar like bhardwaj, paulastya etc. today alot of khatris like every other caste like rajputs, jatts etc are into business, trade etc. but if you see the indian army the last three army chiefs were all khatris, one was a sikh khatri and two were hindu khatris. (Unsigned comment restored by me ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:30, 20 August 2009 (UTC))
- HMM, I am a Jatt and not a Khatri so have nothing to lose from saying what I say, but I am convinced Khatri's are Kshatriya and the mercantile profession is one adopted by them, reason why:
- Khatri is a dialect (Panjabi variation) on Khshatrita, just as the word in Nepal for Kshatriya is "Chettri"
- When a Kshatriya falls on hardtimes, in order for him to retain his status, the [5] mercantile profession is one he is permitted.
- The Sikh Guru's in Dasam Granth describe at great length their Kshatriya family heritage, as in here, here as well as many other places.
- Kshatriya, Khatri, Rajput intermarriage occurs very often (I have attended several weddings myself).
- I do not know what further evidence people need, and why people get so excited about this? Thanks--Sikh-History 11:28, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
Article needs some reorganization
The article needs some reorganization. Some of the text is questionable (like the Aryan migration etc).
Some information needs to be added regarding history. Some books like Prof. Puri's 1988 book should be a good guide.
Photographs should be only of individuals who have made timeless contributions. There are too many Khatri actors. Rajkapoor is worthy of inclusion. But what is special about Kareena Kapoor (although she is charming)?--ISKapoor (talk) 17:42, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
- Let me try to assist in that during the next few months.--Vikramsingh (talk) 00:28, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
- I think Joshua Project information is highly suspect. I would not trust it as a source unless supported by a reliable source.--ISKapoor (talk) 06:34, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Vandalism by KhatriNYC
Please watch out for vandalism by KhatriNYC (you can be fairly sure that he is neither a Khatri, nor someone familiar with Khatri heritage). He has been inserting frivolus and bogus information, and deleting carefully added information from the article.ISKapoor (talk) 14:54, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Oh quite it man, you're the one who is a bogus Khatri, not me. I know my Khatri/Kshatriya heritage. You are the one is lost here buddy. What I delete is information you or others have posted, without first discussing it on the information board before inserting your data. First discuss, and if the majority meets the approval, then you can edit the article. All I do is place the article back into the original format point where all information entered up to that point was discussed, approved and citated/referenced correctly. Now, what ya got playa?
--KhatriNYC (talk) 17:51, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
ISKapoor, I think my last post above was a little heated, so I will cool it down. Lets both be civilized here-- why don't you list all the changes you want to make and give a reason why so that we can understand your basis for them. Sound good?
--167.230.38.115 (talk) 19:24, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
ISKapoor, how could you even think that the total Khatri population is 3,438,000 people. given that india alone has over a 1 billion people, that would mean Khatris only make up .3%. thats not 3% you read, thats .3% (point three percent.....basically less then 1%) of the total Khatri population in India and Pakistan. That is just an uneducated number to post and without and merit, so i would recommend taking that off.
--KhatriNYC (talk) 21:04, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
- The population data was inserted by someone else.
- KhatriNYC has been removed well known, well cited material, include that based on Bichitra Natak by Guru Gobind Singh. The association of Mohyals (who are Saraswat brahmins) with Khatris and specially the Sikh Gurus is well known and documented. Please see Mohyal article. I am not sure what is the motivation of KhatriNYC. Perhaps he is a Khalistan supporter?--ISKapoor (talk) 05:29, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
- Please also see Chhibber, a Mohyal clan specially associated with the Sikh Gurus for several generations.--ISKapoor (talk) 05:36, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
ISKapoor, you can add that stuff information about Bichitra Natak by Guru Gobind Singh, but only after my post, since this will put it in par with the original format of information before many uncited data posts were put.
--KhatriNYC (talk) 14:11, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Joshua Project
I haven't read through most of this dispute or seen a lot of the edit warring in the histories but I noticed that the Joshua Project website was used as a reference for the Khatri populations. I would strongly recommend against using it and doubt it can be considered a reliable source. Even on the website it says This data may contain errors and needs continual correcting and updating. Click here to send feedback. Also it has ulterior motives such as Evangelizing and has no academic credibility. GizzaDiscuss © 12:45, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Watch for inserts by 122.162.98.9
He claims: "Khatri" is derived from from "Khazar"!--ISKapoor (talk) 02:30, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Number of Khatris in Pakistan?
Thre are apparently some Pakistanis of Khatri origin. However I have found no evidence that the number is greater than Khatris in Australia, UK, canada etc.
Some of the Punjabi Sheikh are apparently of Khatik origin, thus they do not count.
Inicidentaly Census of India, 1901, Volume 17, Part 1, gives the population distribution of Hindu and Sikh khatris as 227,421 and 34006. No mention of Muslim khatris. The book explicitly declares that a Khatri does not remain a khatri after conversion, but becomes a Khoja. Problem is that Khojas include converts from many communities not just Khatri.
--Vikramsingh (talk) 00:40, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
WHAT THE HELLLLLL IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE!!!!!????
where the hell do you guys get off changing this page from its original state without first discussing your changes on the board first???? I am reporting all of you users who made changes in the last few days to and admin, who will then block you.
Also, why was the article titled "list of Khatri surnames" deleted????
WHY IS THERE SO MANY PEOPLE JEALOUS AND ENVIOUS TOWARDS KHATRIS THAT THEY MESS WITH THIS PAGE SO MUCH? GET OVER IT YOUR WEIRDOS!
--KhatriNYC (talk) 04:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- You are being disruptive on this page. There is no envy on the part of anyone else, but your en masse reverts of every editor's contributions is clearly edit warring and disruptive. You do not cite any reason for your changes except that these edits weren't made by you and therefore need to be discussed. -SpacemanSpiffCalvin‡Hobbes 17:28, 9 September
2009 (UTC)
NO Spacemanstiff, you are wrong here and you know it. people come to this page and change it without even discussing their changes first. I merely put it back to its original state. And if you want to make a change, first discuss it, and then post the change. I will be reporting you to a high wiki admin since you seem to be abusing powers by warning me, when I do nothing wrong other then place an article in its original state, before users come and modify it with their changes, without first discussing or giving reasons why they are making changes. Good day to you sir!--
KhatriNYC (talk) 19:17, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
Clean up on 2009-09-11
Here are a few things I've done with this clean up:
- Remove English as language - this section is for native languages, not what people can speak.
- Remove dup link in ref2
- Remove lede sentence on region of Mahabharata etc - it should only be covered and referenced in the article if at all
- Change distinguished in section header for list to notable; change list link to MOS title
I've also added citation needed tags to significant statements that need verification. -SpacemanSpiffCalvin‡Hobbes 15:37, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
Once again
This page is a nightmare. Every editor wants to present a POV and remove anything that goes against their view. Right now, ISKapoor has reverted my clean up with a load of junk included in the article with an edit summary "ref added":
- English is a native language of Khatris - really? Show one RS ref for that
- True, it is not a native language of Khatris in India, excet in some rare cases. --ISKapoor (talk) 01:53, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- Added back a link to an article deleted by AfD
- Removed all unfree image tags with no explanation (this is bordering on vandalism)
- Removed citation needed tags without adding any (vandalism)
- I have added some citations. I have a collection of books on the subject. Please let me know if any other citations are needed.--ISKapoor (talk) 02:06, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- Deleted all MOS corrections
Seriously, stop making edits that have no value. -SpacemanSpiffCalvin‡Hobbes 01:47, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- Ok, my apologies for being a bit hasty, but given the history of this page, I didn't expect you to follow up after the revert. As long as the cite tags are addressed with cites, that's perfectly fine by me. However, see the revert diff to find all the image tags, dab link corrections, double redirect corrections you have removed and the MOS changes. -SpacemanSpiffCalvin‡Hobbes 02:15, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
List of Khatri clans: misleading names inserted
Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Khatri_clans
I noted that some editors (such as Batinde and 122.161.221.67) have inserted names of well-known non-Khatri clans by added "Khatri clans" category to some of the pages. That is wrong.
The list of clans need to be checked for correctness. --Vikramsingh (talk) 22:19, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- Unless there's a reference for belonging, they shouldn't be added to any category. If they don't belong there and there's no available references to show that they belong, any editor can remove them, with the reason in the edit summary, so you can do that. -SpacemanSpiffCalvin‡Hobbes 22:24, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Also please see List of Khatri surnames which needs to be checked.--Vikramsingh (talk) 22:27, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- This list is on wiktionary so it will have to be taken up at that project. A similar list was on en.wiki, but it was deleted by AfD last month due to the lack of any sources verifying the information in it. -SpacemanSpiffCalvin‡Hobbes 22:31, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Note to Admins....
Please watch the user WALTHAM2. He has created a page called [Bhapa Sikh]] which is usually a derogatory term for a certain ethnic group in India. Please take a look at the Bhapa Sikh page, as it is already being debated to be removed, but we need action to be done since its a derogatory term. Thanks.
--KhatriNYC (talk) 03:57, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Also please watch user IP 122.173.252.213. He/She keeps making changes for one thing, but alters lot of other information on the page. Thanks
--KhatriNYC (talk) 21:59, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Khatris are no related to Aroras and Aroras are also not related to Khatris. Khatris, Tarkhans, Lohars, Gujjars, Jats, Rajputs and Kambohs are descended from an ancient specific tribe called Indo-Scythians (Sakas/Shakhas/Scythians). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.161.41.17 (talk) 21:33, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Talk page archive
The talk page is getting too big, so I'm setting up an auto archive to archive threads older than 60 days with a minimum of three left. Also adding a searchable archive box. -SpacemanSpiff 21:45, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Total Khatri population broken down by religion should be removed.
What is certain the Khatri is a great caste but surely not the Kshatriya (the warriors). The Khatri is a merchant caste. The Khatri can not be converted into a Kshatriya. signed: G.S. Purewal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.52.163.149 (talk) 17:26, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
A great caste of merchants and traders but not warriors the Kshatriyas. P.S. Chauhan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.39.133.62 (talk) 21:48, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
I suggest you try your luck outside India. The Khatri is a very shrewd caste of merchants found mainly in the Punjab. A fine race and people but surely not Kshatriyas-the warriors.
In India the Khatris are known to be a business caste and not the Kshatriyas the kings and warriors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.125.3.245 (talk) 21:45, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
I was in India and have studied castes. The Khatris is a caste of businessmen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.220.114.164 (talk) 21:29, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Dr. Maninder Singh Sra —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.103.243.226 (talk) 19:04, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I would suggest we remove the total populations listed by religion of Khatris, since this uses a consensus done by a site called www.thejoshuaproject.com, on the grounds that it 1) is not a total population because it only uses the data for the people who actually reported themselves to the site as Khatri 2) the www.thejoshuaproject.com is an evangelical supported christian site that is not a biased source of information. religious affiliations should not be cited as a source when calculating a population. all citated material should come from unbiased sources.
Thanks,
--KhatriNYC (talk) 20:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
I have to Agree i dont see the site as a very accurate source,it would not make a difference for the worst if it was taken down but i recommend we wait a little to see if anyone has an objection. Regards Information-Line 21:04, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
- Given that this has been discussed in the past with exactly the same conclusion, it's perfectly fine to remove those nos and refs, unless consensus changes. -SpacemanSpiffCalvin‡Hobbes 21:21, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
Khatris are Indo-Scythians[26]--122.173.3.145 (talk) 13:55, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
There doesn't seem to be any objections to removing the total population figure. Lets go ahead and do this now. --KhatriNYC (talk) 14:24, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Aroras
Khatris Are Not related to Aroras. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.163.214.91 (talk) 10:44, 31 October 2009 (UTC) Hi I am not sure about if khatri's are realated to aroras but i know they do not belong to Indo-Scythians group as if you have read some history when Alexander attacteed india on that time the king's of some of the states were khatri's after my research i have gone upto 360 bce but i can make a rough guess it goes even couple of centuries back than that for example Indian king Pouras on time Alexander invaded India was a khatri and if i am not wrong some part of his family who was living near hill name Aror on that time they use last name arora.Khatris also known as surya wanshi which will take them more back in history somewhere in mahabharata's time.so i will highly suggest before ytou right down anything you should know what you are talking about. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.86.66.178 (talk) 03:18, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Khatris are related to Jats, Tarkhans, Rajputs, Lohars, Gujjars, Kambohs, Ravidasias, Ramdasias, Mazhabis, Chura Sikhs and Labanas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.162.50.232 (talk) 18:10, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
This page is about Khatri's
Why is the Khatri page the only page that contains a "Related Ethnic Groups" box at the top of the page? There is already a similiar section at the very bottom of the page. This box should be replaced by the old box which is displayed to the bottom right of my post or every Punjabi clan/caste page needs to contain the same "Related Ethnic Groups" box.
| Khatris | |
|---|---|
| Classification | Kshatriya |
| Religions | Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam, Jainism |
| Languages | Punjabi, Hindi, and Urdu |
| Populated states | Punjab, Delhi |
| Subdivisions | Dhai-Ghar, Bara-Ghar, Bawanjahi, Kukhran, Sareen |
The information linked to non-Khatri clans and castes totally throws the flow of this article off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.156.176.118 (talk) 21:50, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Babe Laloo Jasrai Mandir, 33/84, Topi Bazaar, Chowk, Kanpur
History:
Babe Laloo Jasrai original temple is situated in Dipalpur of Montogomery district of Pakistan. After partition of India in 1947 it was not possible for Khatri's of India to visit their temple at Dipalpur. Khatri's of Kanpur under the leadership of Shri Vishwanath Khanna decided to establish temple of Babe Laloo Jasrai at Kanpur. The family of Shri Vishwanath Khanna had their ancestral temple at 33/72, Topi Bazaar, Chowk, Kanpur where Babe Laloo Jasrai temple was also established on 16th December 1947 and thereafter all Khatri's of Kanpur and nearby started coming to this temple for ritual. Younger brother of Shri Vishwanath Khanna, Shri Bishambhar Nath Khanna became sarvarakar of the temple in 1982. He shifted the temple of Babe Laloo Jasrai from 33/72 to 33/84 Topi Bazaar, Chowk, Kanpur which was also ancestral temple of Khanna family of SHIV ji. This temple was reconstructed by Bishambhar Nath Khanna making it elegant and beautiful with marble all around. In this temple besides Babe Laloo Jasrai, Shankar Ji, Radha Krishna ji & Durga Maa idols were also installed. Shankar Ji and idols of Radha Krishan Ji & Durga Maa are 200 years old which were installed by great grandfather Lala Ganga Prasad Khanna and Grandfather Lala Ayodhya Prasad Khanna and Lala Debi Prasad Khanna. Now in this temple all Khatri’s of Kanpur and nearby celebrate birthday (Mahochha) of Babe Laloo Jasrai in the month of Saawan (naumi of Krishna Pakchh) Doors of Babe Laloo Jasrai open annualy for a month on Ekadashi of Shukl Pakchh of poosh- month which is around 14th January when ahwaan ceremony is performed in a grand style and all Khatri’s gather to perform the ceremony. Thereafter on all Saturday’s Choti ceremony (cutting of choti) of boys upto the age of 13 years is performed. Doors of temple are closed on dashvi of magh- month which is around 13th February when closing ceremony is also performed in the same way as in opening ceremony.
FROM:
bnk@hotmail.com Bishanbhar Nath Khanna khanna.knp@gmail.com Kanchan Khanna (son) rrohan2kool@hotmail.com Rrohan Khanna (grand son) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.117.154.70 (talk) 17:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
some additions to the khatri rituals and social habits from folklore should also be added. try these given below. kindly assist in editing and presentation please
from khanna salil, bharain. dated 14th may 2010
No no no. The Khatri is a lovable caste of merchants not Kshatriyas the warriors. Agreed many are liberal thus adored in some western lands. Dr. Tej Pratap Singh Sra —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.115.149.77 (talk) 12:20, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
My view of the Punjani Khatri the truth: I do business in india and deal often with these people. i jovial fun=loving business community close to us the Jews. they are very nice people shorter and darker on an average than the Rajput and Jat of India. In business they can take on any one on this globe except us Jews! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.48.63 (talk) 22:03, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
In India the Punjabi Khatri is equated with the Jew. This is a fact. Also when I traveled in North America the Jew and Punjabi Khatri worked as a team. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.163.67.237 (talk) 10:11, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
The Jews are telling the Khatri (merchant) we will make you aKshatriya and then put you on top in India. The Jews are then telling others the Khatri is a immoral businessman. We Khatris know the Jewish game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.163.124.98 (talk) 12:34, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
The Punjabi Khatri a proud Aryan is a trader by caste. The Jew can not match him. The Jew is a Semite the Khatri an Aryan. Gopal K. Saini —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.164.13.68 (talk) 09:18, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
OM SRI BABE LALU JASRAIJI, AMRITSAR, KANPUR JULLANDUR, DELHI
Kanpur: Mandir Bhawan, 33/84, Topi Bazaar Chowk Amritsar: Karta Dhullo, Khu Suneriyan
Courtsey : Dr. DD Kapoor
Sri Babe Lalu Jasraiji,
He was remembered enlightened person and worshiped like a GOD. He did not start any creed or cult, it is mentioned about him in Poorva-Samhita of Hinguladri part of Skand-Purana.
When Khanna cast was extinguished and families were not growing, a Sarawat Brahmin called Lalu did penance in Purushcharan Siddhi – (Japa of required count) and pleased Goddess Jawalaji, she instructed him to do penance of Hingulaji to seek the fulfillment of his desire. He did penance of Hingulalji and Jagdamba was pleased and appeared before him and said, the son which I give is my incarnation.
He is as my God-Child (manas putra), he is a langur-veer and should be called Jasraj. Treat him with great respect and do not use impolite words, otherwise your will come to sorrow.
On Sunday, the tenth day of Sravan month Krishna Paksha, Jasraj was born. Khanna race was protected
When Jasrajji was five years, one day he was playing in the house courtyard, and sitting in meditation. His mother called him repeatedly, but he did not answer. Mother got angry and forgot the words of Jagdamba Hingula, she scolded him impolitely “Why don’t you speak, have you immersed in the courtyard”?
The moment she said the courtyard stared cracking and he started merging in it. Mother cried and ran to him caught his tuft. He merged in the courtyard and only tuft remained in the hand of Mother.
Family priest Baba Lalu came and prayed. Reincarnated Jasraji instructed to do the penance by the name of Sakhti of Sri Durga, Sri Chadika, Sri Shiva, Varahi, Hindwasini, Vaneswari, etc., and he declared that place as a Siddha peeth, where the wishes of people fulfilled quickly. This incident is 80km from Lahore at Deepalpur after partition of the country, it is in Pakistan now.
This place is specificaly in the name of Baba Jasraiji. Khatri’s, specifically started offering tuft here. In the month of Magh, khatri boys expressed their respect towards this reincarnation by offering their tuft.
Brief history of Khatri
Those who protect Dharma, Dharma Protects them
IInd Edition, Dr. DD Kapoor
It is very clear from the drama “Strange Drama” which describe the Iswaku clan. The Khartri are heirs of Ishwaku clan. In Ramayana also Tulsidas ji mentioned that lineage of King Dashrat, was described as “Raghukul”
RAHGULKUL REET SADA CHALI AAYI, PRAN JAYE PAR VACHAN NA JAYI.
Ishwaku Clan family tree
Lord Sun (Founder of Surya clan)
Maharaj RAghu
Maharaj Ajj Maharaj Dashrat Maharaj Ram
Lav Kush
Kaal Rao (Rai) Kal ketu Sri Narayan Ji (Guru nanak devji’s Great Grand father) Sri Shiv Narayan ji, Guru nankdevji’s and father Sri Guru ramdasji, Sri Kalyanrajji, Guru nakdevji’s Father Fourth guru of Sikh’s & father of the clan Gurunanak devji
In Ramayan (Uttara kand) Raghuvansh is mentioned upto Luv & Kush. Sri Kalidas also (in Raghuvansh) has mentioned from Dilip upto (Agnivansh). But in “Vichitra natak” the family tree is mentioned in very brief but it is meaning full (as described)
Guru Nanak Devji who was Khatri of Bedi clan, nominated his beloved disciple Sri Aangad Devji as hi successor. His disciple Amardasji nominated his disciple Sri Ramdevji & not to his own heirs. Their after from 4th guru to 10th guru the guru succession remain in the same family.
As such from Guru Ramdasji to Guru Govind Singhji, all gurus were Sodhi’s. It is famous in public knowledge of Punjab that the son of Lord Rama – Luv established Lahore and Kush established Kasur.
In Tulsi Ramayan, Tulsidasji has clearly mentioned that when Parsuramji stated extermination of Kshtriyas , some settled on Ravi & Chenab river banks and some went in the mountain. In Punjabi language KSH is not uttered but KH is used.
There is no difference in Khatri and Khastruya Great poet Kalidasji also mentions in the 5th chapter of Vikram clan; ‘Prakrut’ - “Khatrisya” word was used in place of Sanskrit “Kshtriya” word.
Prof. H H Wilson, while explaining the word Khatri mentioned that Khatri which is mis-pronounced Khatriya/Khatri hindi word (Kshtriya Sanskrit word) whose meaning is "weapon carrier" or Soldier/Warrior or Royal/Ruler clan.
According to Uunani writes those who were ruling the area between Ravi and Veyas were Khatriyao. Their capital was Sangal. It is clear that the name Khatriyao indicates Khatri.
Sri Megwill has commented in respect of this area Khatri were ruling on the land between ravi and veyas rivers and this is the original residence of Khatri race.
Sri Kalidasji, Chandra vardai, Farishta Abdul Faisal also used Khakshaiyon word for Kshtriyon. According to grammar in conversation ‘Kha’ is used in place of ‘Ksha’ due to difficulty in pronunciation.
Sri Guru Nanak Devji also used Khatri word.
Great Alexander at the time of invasion called Khartiya to Kshtriya rulers who were settled in river Sindh area.
When we look at the ancient history we can know that in far of northern arab King Udaynath was a great Khatriya king. The boundary of his kingdom was spread over from Syria to Afghanistan.
In time of Islamic rule Khatri were Diwan (Tax collector, Soldiers and ministers) Diwan Sawanmal and Moolraj were Governers of Multan who were Khatris. In that time diwan Kishan Singn, Sri Ramjasmal, Sri Lakhpatrai, Sri Motiram, Sri Nanakchandra, etc., were famous khatris. In Akbar’ court, among nine jewels king Todarmal was a tandon Khatri. In the time of Ahmed shah, king Bakht mal and Ramranvir das were Khatris. History is witnessed that the kings of Gupta era were Kahatris. Upto 606AD maukhari dynasty ruled. Those Maukhris were Khatri. This dynasty is known as 'Varma'.
Indian soil is lucky, and lucky are those mother’s who gave birth to hundreds and thousands of Khatri kings. His soil is great who gave birth to Guru Govind Singh ji, Guru Nanak dev ji, Punjab Kesri Maharaj Ranjit Shinghji, Maharaj Kuru, General Hari Singh Nawla, Diwan Mokham Chand, Raja Todar mal, Maharaj Vikramjit, Raja Trilokchanda, Yogi raj , Srichandra, Soorairah, Baba Jasnath, Baba Malookdas and Swami Shiv Dayal Singh.
In India’s struggle for independence, Rajsri Puroshahtam das Tandon, Achrya Narendra dev, Venimadhav Khatri, Brij Bihari Malhotra, Narayan Arora, Shiv Narayan were Khatri’s.
Bhavi Durga is unforgettable in Indian revolution. Ramkishan Kathri, Daoun dayal khanna, Prem Kishan Khanna were in forefront in Kakori struggle.
Producer Sri Ramanad Sagar Chopra of TV serial Ramayan is also Khatri. Sri B.R.Chopra of Mahabarat TV serial and writer Sri Devkinandan of Chandrakanta TV serial are Khatri’s.
Recent edition of Sukhsagar scripture is by Sri Makhanlalji Khatri who was nayab daroga (Sud-Inspector ) in Mirzapur.
The division of Khatri race took place in the time of Allauddin Khilji. During the first general census of India, Britishers declared Khatris as “Vanik”. On which the great son of our clan Maharaj Adhiraj Van Vijay Chand Mahatab (Kapoor) said in his presidential invocative address at Agra conference of Khatri cast in 1912 –
“The time has come to put our house in order. If you want to exits, if you want to resuscitate (to receive) th glories of your ancestors, the barriers among char ghars and Dhaighars, among punj jatis and bawan jatis should be removed again, I say. Work and do not talk, I therefore say, brethren advance but advance cautiously.”
In this conference it was resolved that the criteria of marriage should be enlarged and all all Khatris should established marital relations among all branches of Khatris without hesitation.
Those who do this, the mahasabha will look at them with respect.
On request of my wife Smt.Kanchan Kapoor, I have written for the knowledge my brother, sister and youngsters. Publishers: Shani Printing Press, Dhangu Chowk, Pathankot
TEMPLE OF LALA JASRAI JI OF DEEPALPUR. JAI BABAJI
Sri Babulalu Jasraiji trust (Regd.)
Street Babeyan wali, Kuhu Suneriya, Amritsar.
Caste Procedures:
Extract obtained from (EKTABBA’S : hand written book in urdu script which was received from Sri Gorakhnathji nanada, editor (Rasala Publication) “Shirom", Delhi)
This book contains Kshtriyas Approx: 700 caste names are mentioned. Famous caste are writeen in detailed (Expanded) Out of which some are narrated here.
In vedic and pouranic times, Kshtriyas were Maharaj and Warriers. Not only in India but in the whole world, Kshtriya soverignity existed. Even after pouranic time Kshtriyas had sovernity over place outside India (Ruled Globally)
But it is unfortunate that due to many reasons, weakness came into Kshtriyas and instead of ruling they became slaves of foreigners. In modern times the lively hood of Kshtriya are from Military service, Business and Agricultrue. Besides this they cannot do any other work. If we take the evidence from history of the past, this caste was famous for Sword fighting in army and bravery. The state administration was in their hands. According to 1) Aashar. Shroth. 6-12 Adigras - Ambrish Youvanashva of Koutsa Dynasty is the originator / founder.
Brief Hostory of Sri Baba Lalu Jasraiji,
Writer : HArichand Khanna S/o Lala Harnam das Khanna Choudhry, Lahore wala.
It is difficult to write history of Babaji at this time as nothing is mentioned, neither in the scripture of the mahabharat times nor in any puranas. To known about his character it is necessary to investigate the local folklore from his believers and his younger brother heirs (Sri Boudhrai ji – this family is called babeya family in Khanna caste) and also from the old building ruins of deepalpur when he was living. From wholehearted devotion of Kshtruya towards him shows tat he has done such great important work, because of which the four Kshtriya caste and Khanna caste in particular considers him as most revered. According to all famous folklore his Workplace is deepalpur. This city was some time part of unified India (undivided). But now due to formation of west Pakistan, this place is situated at 13km away from Basirpur and 16km from Okara railway station of Mintbhumri district. It is known from govt. gazette of Mintbhumri that sometime in past vyas river used to flow from this city. One can know from the old ruins which can be seen from distance that this was very beautiful city sometimes. Present deepalpur is inhabited one part of the fort and the remaining burj reminds of the old memory of the fort. Around the fort the moat can still be seen in which the water was filled to protect the fort. But now its is used for agriculture. Except Lahore and Deepalpur no other city has moat, which shows that it was very famous city of that times. The arch of the city shows that it has seen many ups and downs many times. Many times it was destroyed and rehabilitated on the old foundation. Due to this reason this is higher by 30 – 40ft from near by ground. The 3/4part is remaining on old ruins and the present deepalpur is only on 1/4part of it. That is why only three gates can be seen. It is said that some time it has gates outside city.
From the history it is known that upto mughal rule this was among the very famous city of Punjab. In the time of Akbar this city was main place of commissioner like Lahore and Jullandar, one of the nine jewels in Akbar Court was from Deepalpur. From the gazette of Mintbhumri it can be known that when Babur wrote letter to this relatives in Kabul that I have conquered deepalpur which is second to Lahore in Punjab in importance. This letter is engraved on the edict of Shalimar garden of Kabul as an evidence. The reason for writing this in particular by Babur is that whenever the Mughals attacked India the then governer of Deepalpur used to defeat them and chase them upto Kabul and Lakshman. That is why Allauudin Khilji made him Haakim of Deepalpur. This was the same, Gazi Tuglaq, who conquered Delhi after killing Shah Khasru Alias Nassiruddin Khilji in 1320AD and became famous as Gayasuddin Tuglaq who founded the Tuglaq dynasty.
From the history it is known that before Babur Mohd. Gajanabi etc., and even Akbar, enemies used to attack this holy city. There was times when we used to attack in the vicinity (western) of sindh. It is known from 22nd chapter section (Sarg) of Uttar Kand of Valmiki Ramayan that king of Kaiki kigdom who was Bharatjis Maternal uncle – King Yudhjit, sent a message to Ramchanderji thru’ his royal priest Ghargya – s/o of Adigras, that there is a Ghandravs kingdom on both the banks of Sindhu river o the border of my kingdom who king is at present is Shailus and this country is very beautiful and full of fruits and flowers. These people are very disturbing and Iam troubled by them therefore o’ mighty one please control them. Then further in 23 Section of UttatKand that King Ramchadra accepted it and send both sons of King Bharat (Taksh and Pushkal) after performing their crowning ceremony with Bharatji and big army and told bharatji that – Conquer this country and make sons as king of these country). Bharatji obeyed and defeted Ghandrawas/ He then made Takhshila on the east side of sindh in the name of prince Taksh and inhabited Pushkalavat (Kalash) in the name of price Pushkal in the vicinity of Sindh. Maharaj Bharat stayed for 5 years in this country and return to India.
This is how this whole country whose kingdom was Ghandhar / Khandhar came in the hands of Suryavanshi. After this as time went on some branches of Suryavansh used to called Chandravansh and Agnivansh and they spread all over in this part of the country. Time went on. Mahabharat war took place. With the result, India weakened due to division into small – small states. It will not be wrong to mention here that the 4caste of Kshtryia in their development had spread to long long distance and later on returned to Madhya-bharat Punjab.
According to hand written script which was given to me for research by Lala Ramrakha Mal (Pehalwan) Kapoor that a major part of Kapoor branch used to live in Teerah Kamray?? (13 rooms??), Kotak Pura Yusuf Jee ( descendent of Joseph – jewish ?? ) was their kingdoms capital. This caste was generally residing in Khandhar. They were exciled from country after battle with : 1) Atash Praston (Parsi – Iranian), 2) Amir Savutgeen. They inhabited kotakpura in Punjab in their name. it is written about Kakkad or Seth caste that they were living in Karisthan Taman when muslim started attacking. Those who accepted Islam religion and stayed back in the country are still called Kakkad Pathans. And those who wanted to serve the religion they left the country and came to east side. It is written that Malhotras and Meharas are their heirs and abount Khannas it is known that they were residing in great numbers in Hinglaj. Therefore Khanna caste praises Hinglaji in particular. Because Khanna caste considers Bhagwati Chandika as their family Goddess whose temple was in Hingla. Based on this it is know that a major of Khanna caste used to reside near Hinglaji and some time from Malwa to Fars border, there was small small state of Kshtriya caste. After that Gautama Bhudda time started and Bhuddisim became the state religion. After that Sihunag fought with pure Kshtriya (Surya, Chadra, Agni) and ruled for 10 generations.
Then maha padya nanda who was from shudra womb sat on thorne. According to hand written scrip Mihar Praksh, he heaped atrocities on pure Kshtriyas with the result that people forgot who was Parsuram. Then the Kshtruya fled from country and came to middle Punjab. At that time having seen weak Bharat Desh the king Gushtasap of the western side in fars who was the fire worshiper (Parsi – 700BC) under his commander Kailaks gave a big army to attack India and conquer Afghanistan and Baluchistan. Like this by the fear of Atash Praston the Kshatriya came into Punjab. Then in 300BC greek king Alexander forces attacked India and won west Punjab till Harrappa and establish his rule.
After seen the ruins of Harrappa we come to know that the greeks used to treat this city as one of their capital or major town or as border cantonment, as towards the east of Harrappa there is no sign of any greek influence in the rest of India. By this time the Kshtriyas have established small small states among themselves on the strength of their might. Famous historian Bhai Kardal Saheb Bahadur Unnani (Mike Randal ?? ) writes in his book that about 2500 years before Kshtriyas had established their rule between ravi and vyas rivers, that time Kshtriya king whose name was Raja Sri Chand Khanna used to rule deepalpur. According to folk lore one day Raja Sri Chand was sitting very sad and worrying when suddenly his royal priest pundit Chand muniji Zingan (Lalu Pandit) arrived. He asked the reason for king sadness. King replied that old age is approaching, hair are getting grey and one side the fear of king Bhoop Singh of Multan (Some people called him brother of King Sri Chand) may snatch my kingdom. I’ve no son who can protect the country, therefore, ‘am worried all the time. According to folklore Pundit Chand Muniji came to serve a saint Baba Chajjal ji, who was at a distance of 3 koss east of deepalpur and he narrated all this to him.
Baba Chajjal ji advised to go to Hinglaj and performed austerities of Devi Chandika (Bhagwati) . Sri Higlajji is great thirtha of hindu which is mentioned in many puranas. But perhaps very few people know where this holy place is. It is mentioned in Shiv Puran that having seeing dis-respect of her husband, Bhagawati sacrifice herself in yagna fire at her farther’s King Daksha’s house Lord Shankar was saddened and carried the burnt body of sati mata on his shoulder and started circumbulation of India. While walking and carrying satis body, many parts fell here and there. Wherever these parts fell that place became teerth place and great temples were established on these places. In south Kanyakumari temple, Assam Kamakshi temple, and like this in west Hinglaj Bhawani temple were established.
It is said that the arms of Chandi Bhawani fell here. ?? ( ambiguity - some say forehead where sindhoor is applied )
From this we can learn that: 1) If you want to keep the west under you then you should use your arms 2) This is the real border of India from where Shivji maharaj used to carry sati's body. This place is situated on hill on seashore in Kalat of Baluchistan state.
200 years before from today (When book was published) hindu saint and monks used to go on pilgrimage for darshan of Sri Hinglaj Bhawani walking thru dense forest. 75 years before from today, according to an English tourist (Siyah) who wrote after his Hinglaj trip and its translation was published in the urdu news papers that in the last century very few people went for Hinglaj darshan in this temple.
In respect of this teerth I heard in my child hood from a yogi Sundarnath ji who was the priest of Bhairavsthan and mohalla Satha(n) of Lahore. He traveled to this temple with other monks and said that here only flame could be seen. I feel ashamed to write this, that, again that time there was a Muslim lady who was sitting there who used to continue this flame all the time.
Note: Famous sanyasi of arya samaj Swami Sarvananda ji told me that he (or is it me ?? ) went on pilgrimage of Hinglaj with his father and he saw (darshan )of flame in Chandika temple.
It is unfortunate that after having lost our kingdom we forgot our holy places (teerth) and in two / three centuries a time will come when we will also forget our teerth sthan like Katashraj and Nankana sahib holy places etc,.
It is said that on this holy place Pundit Chand Muni ji did penance for many years and at last Bhawani Chandi was pleased and gave two warriors in boon to Punditji. One was called Yash other was called Raj.
Punditji with folded hands prayed and said that Jagdambe, king has three queens and warriors are two, that means one queen shall remain without child. Chandi Bhawani pleasingly said, a child will be borne to third queen who shall sit on the thorne.
Since both warriers were brought by punditji, therefore they are known in the world as Baba Lalu Jasrayain. The child borne to third queen by the boon was called Bouhard Rai., whose descendents are called Bohare ( bhoor-ae ? ). About which something is mentioned later.
It is particularly said in respect to these two warriers that when they were coming towards deepalpur with punditji they fought with two rakshas called Har and Haru. These warriers killed them and therefore they became famous. It is said that according to the prophesy of Bhagawati, their mother insulted them for some reason and therefore these both warriors immersed themselves in this flame on Sravan Vadhi (Vudhi) Nawami (Sravan month Sukhla Paksha, waxing moon, 9th day tithi) and ascended on the the same day. Therefore they are worshipped like devatas and in their memory this temple was constructed in deepalpur.
In each hindu temple flame is lighted but in this temple two flames are lighted. It is said that one in the memory of Kale-Black veer (Yash) and other in memory of Lal-Red veer (Raj). It is also said that when these warriors immersed in earth their mother caught the tuft strongly in her hands therefore the ritual of this choti (tuft) by going at deepalpur.
By paying particular attention at this folklore it is known that where the fighting took place with Har ad Harup and they were killed became famous by name of Harrappa. From the ruins this can be know that Harrappa was ruled by greeks. Therefore it is known that these warriors had a particular role to exile te greeks and established trouble free state. Therefore they were known especially among all Kshtriya and in deepalpur where their memorial place became holy shrine.
On the ninth day of sravan month when these two warriors ascended and the next day (10th Dashmi) are celebrated in particular by all four caste of Kshtriya which is known as Maha utssav. The illiterate men / women called Mour-Saheb. The ninth day is celebrated by the offspring of Boudh Rai ji who is youger brother of Baba Lalu Jasrai. Their off-spring recide particularly in Lahore and Amritsar and street in Lahore is known by their name as Babiyan and market in Amritsar is famous as Babiyan.
In the Babiyei street of Lahore there is old temple about 10ft underground and it is assumed that it is more than 500 years old. Where the 10th day is celebrated only by the off-spring of Babaji.
First off all in this old temple Chandika havan is performed and there after 40-60 bhramin are fed and offered dakshina. The reason being the authority to perform Shrradh is given to these off-spring only therefore on ninth day this family is performing the ritual.
In deepalpur nothing is done of this sort. Remaining Kshtriyas, Khanna caste and other Kshtriyas give ‘Seedha’ (Jaggary and Wheat flour) or ‘Lucchi’ and ‘Halwa’ (Sheera Puri). This is called Babaji’s patal (Plate and bowl made out of leaves).
In lahore this fare used to be celebrated in Babiyan gali on 9th day and the next day of Sravan vadhi (10th day). This fare used to be celebated out side the Shahlami gate f Lahore where people used to assemble in thousands. That time there was no rattan chand pond and this place was famous as Maidan-Babiyan.
On ninth and tenth day the off-spring of the family used to sit on the thorone, it was consider good to pay their respects.
On tenth day this fare was celebrated in jullandar, Khanna, Jagrawan, Delhi, Kanpur, etc., in addition to Lahore and Amritsar. One more particular tradition in this family is whenever any boy or girl is married or any auspicious ritul is takink place, first of all Babajis mangala-charan ardas then the ghodi or suhaag is recited for those boys or girls. Time went on and Deepalpur also developed soon Gajnawi time came. Mohd. Gajnawi had his fist attack on Multan and terrorized the whole state. Now every year Mohd. Started attacking hindus on the other side, to protect temple Kshtriyas used to present themselves every year and willing to lay down their lives without hesistation. Since Khanna caste were regularly engaged in war, the Bhaats (Professional Maska Polish jaati) at the time of marriage etc, used to recite poems or couplets in which they call Khanna caste as ‘Khadag-dhari’ (Sword wielding).
Khanna caste present themselves everyyear in deepalpur and therefore there is a tradition that unless and until Khanna boy gives his tuft he cannot marry. One more note worthy particular thing is that, that boy whose this particular ritual is to be performed carries flag and wears a red cloth dress while going to deepalpur and this red color is known for sacrifice. This is the idea behind choti-tradition and he basics of it.
Choti-traditon is not among the 16 rituals (Sanscars) of hindus, but every boy of these 4 caste has to follow this generally. But now a days the ritual is extended to such an extent that if any one not having a child comes to this temple and vows to perform the choti-ritual in order to get a child (Sukhna or Mannat or Sanklap).
This ritual is celebrated as under: When the boys goes to temple and carries coconut with him, which symbolized head, and priest removes the tuft of coconut which symbolizes as removal of tuft of the boy and beheading him; and boys head and face are covered by cloth. In state the parent of the boy can neither see or touch him or take him to their place.
Another lady as his mother takes the boy to her place and brings back the next morning to the deity and after paying obeisance returns the boy to his original mother.
This ritual is perfomed during night of each Saturday in the month of Magh every year and on Sunday bowing head, on Monday Shaving head (mundane), on Tuesday Yagyopavit (Thread ceremony) are performed. It is known that on the way to this temple the place where yavan (Muslims) used to attack Khanna jaati caste and the place is still known as ‘Ratha Khanna’ (Rakht Khanna). The place painted red with blood of Khannas is about 4miles from deepalpur in the west.
According to this history thr choti-ritual is possible only in deepalpur. Bt now this ritual is possible only in Babiyan street near Khu-suneriayan of Amritsar, because now deepalpur is pakisthan.
This is the only fare celebrated thru’ out the month in Pujab. Onthis occasion people, in particular Khanna and Khstriyas afrom far distance of country, viz., Kabul, Khandar, Ganjani, Africa, Burma are coming to celebrate this ritual in deepalpur.
Before performing any auspicious ritual in temple, Chandika devi is worshipped first. This Bhawani Chandika devi temple is situated opposite to Babajis temple. Warriors like Rana Pratap, Shivaji Maratha, Sri Guru gobind Singhji, etc. also admired Chandi. Since this is the Goddess who give strength and vitality.
Khanna caste consider Chandika and their family Goddess and before every rituanl they worship. Like other temples, in deepalpur temple theire is no special idiol, but flame is seen (darshan) since Babaji was a powerful warrior sent by Chandika, therefore flame is only seen in this Bhagwati Chandika temple.
It is said that a beliver deevotee made a Golden idol of Baba Lalu Jasrai ji and placed it in this temple. Which was against the tradition. In cosequence he suffered a great loss. In future this should not be seen by other people and therefore curtain is place before it.
It is surprising to known that after the formation of Pakistan, robbers ob the precious item fromthis temple, but they did not date to look at the idiol. This idol is still at its place behind curtain which was seen in 1650(207 Vikram Smvat) pilgrimage and no body touched it. After mhmd. Gori one of its successor Quttulbuddin was the founder of Guluma Dynasty. When this dynasty also weakened on his dead body Jallauddin Khikji founded Khiljia Dynasty. At that time arounf Deepalpur Kstriyas were very courageous and therefore to kee them under control Jallauddin and Allauddin had appinted Khaji Tuglaq as Governer of Deepalpur, who was Sepoy Sallar (Senior most Soldier). Something has aleady been mentioned earlier.
The result of making a bloody warrior man and Governor of deepalpur shows athat Khiljis has fear of Kshtriyas. It is known that whe Kshtriyas lost their kingdom and luck also did not favour them and river vyas also changed it sflow and joined Sutej, near ferojpur making the whole country as unfertile land wild barren jungle. In desperation Kshtriya left the reagion and went all over India. Therefore these Kshtriyas called themselves ‘came from Multan’
There is big travel-inn pilgrim which is made of two-storey in deepalpur. I can say that no where in India this can be found. This inn is the result of relentless efforts of donors of therse 4 caste (botherhood ) and are reered lala vanshidhar kaoor of Amritsar, the value of which were run into lakhs of rupees. Pilgrim ca get place to stay, utensils, water bucket, lantern and necessary things from committee of Baba Lalu Jasrai. Even now about hundred muslim families are surving from this inn.
In vikram samvat 206 (1649), a group of Kshtriya went on pilgrimage to this temple. This was first group of hindus which went on pilgrimage to this temple in Punjab, as per available information.
In this group 4people were from family of Baba Baoudrai and a pandit Hariramji from family Pundit Chand Muniji. 4 boys from this group perfomed choti-ritual at this time out of which one was Krishna Kumar Khanna the decendedent of Sri Baba Baoudhrai ji.
At the last, I want to praise the farsightedness of those great Kshtriya people to make this choti-ritual and made it compulsory for Khanna people to visit deepalpur for the ritual and united this dispersed caste from Kabul to Assam and Kashmir to Kanyakumari. This admirab le thought became a instrument of unity, awareness, regognition, love, sacrifeice and bravery in this caste. It is sorry to state that whith the divition of country we not only lost our wealthe, respect and unity but also our tirthas. Come an let us assert in the presence of God that we will perform this choti-ritual of our children at deepalpur or Amritsar only. And will be consider as Sin if performed else where. In the ed I prayed to God let the day come very soon when Bharat will again unite so that we can freely visit deepalpur and perform the ritual and prey their to Sri Babe Lalu Jasraiji.
Mandir Sri babe Lalu Jasrai ji Jai Babe di Amritsar: Karta Dhullo, Khu Suneriyan
Day : Thursday & Sunday – Direction to perform Praises Dakshina : Wheat flour, Rice, Gram Daal,
Day : Sunday Dakshina : Wheat flour, Jaggary Rice, Gram Daal.
Day : Saturday - Tuft registration time – Evening 5-8pm
Day: Saturday – Tuft removal time Evening 8:30pm
Ingredients for Tuft 1-Cocunut, 7-Betal nuts, 5-Dry fruits, 1-Flag
Ingredients for Tuft removal Day Saturday : 1-Cocunut, 1-Jaggary piece, 1-Shawl (Chunni) (No Black or Blue colour) Day Saturday : 2-Prayers, INR 5 notes each
Day Sunday : Morning - Pray to Deity (Khajoor / Hajoor), 5-Mathiyan, Raw Milk Day Sunday : Evening – Vok of Raw milk, 5-Wodden toys, Turban (Tosha, Geri), Refind flour Khajoor, Black Silk Thread. Day Sunday : For Tuft Removal - 1-Cocunut, 7-Betal nuts, 5-Dry fruits, 1-Flag
Day Monday : Morning – Thread ceremony, 9-Mathhiyan, Jaggary, Rice.
Head Shaving (Mundan)
Day Monday : Morning – 9-Mathiyan, Jaggery, Rice.
Day Monday : Evening – 10-Dry Chappati, Gram Daal Khichdi (Dhagdadiyan), Sheera in Jaggary, Jaggary, Ladoo, Warm water, Suhe ?, 1rupee coin, Cocunut,
Day Tuesday : Thread Ceremony Day Tuesday : Walking stick, Umbrella (Chava ?), Wooden Slipper, Writing board, Maathi, 125gm (1-1/4) of Suji kasar, Cocunut, 1rupee coin (from maternal family side), white rice, turban.
Day Thursday : Rituals, Toys (Playing items), Kheer / Payasam, Dahi Pakodi, Pappad, Vadiayan, Mustard Saag, Bhurji, Vegetable cooked in oil, Gram Daal Khichdi (Dhagdadiyan), Gram Daal, Jaggary Halwa (From maternal parents), 1-coconut, 1rupee coin.
Day Thursday : Pooja Items – 1-Thali, 1-katori, 1-Water bowl, Ghee, Cotton, Dhoop, Jaggary, Rice, Pink Roli for tilak, Flowers, Head band of Flowers, Mauli (Red wrist thread).
By the blessings of - Mataji, babaji & my father sudarshan kumar khanna son of dwarkadas khanna amritsar wale. Translation assisted by mr. O. P. Sharma of kota, rajasthan. Boolund sahar – haryana delhi. - 2008-2009 Shree baba laaluji’s ardaas. – sir baba laalu’s supplication.
Jablab surya akash mein,
- karre jyot prakash.
Tablab baba darshan diyo,
- doodh poot ki aash.
Dayal pooriye, darshan kariye, hinglaj maaniye,
- niraash pat vinanti karre, kirti karre bakhaniye.
Char gaav do dohare, maan dhani jo paye,
- ghut ghut baba simariye, shree baba laalu jas-raye.
Bol laal mandir vale baba ki,
- Sada hi jay, sada hi jay, sada hi jay.
Till the sun in sky height,
- showers brightness enlight.
Audience, do give to us, o baba,
- For lactating wives, sons we do hope for.
Fill the needy, present attendance, believe in hinglaj,
- Request from need, your great deeds do I praise.
Four villages, two …, respect & wealth do receive,
- Every breath evoke baba, sir’s baba laalu, yash, raj.
Triumphantly do call, for the red temple babaji,
- Eternal victory, eternal victory, eternal victory.
Chade jab chand markand puja karre hain,
- Bhanu ki jyot par rahe ujaalu.
Devi aur devata sidh puja karre hain,
- Nitya narad utth ved boloon.
Kahe ‘jodhaarai’ teri jyot sada jage,
- Sada agam nigam poorna ujaalu.
Doodh poot dhan lakshmi deth hain,
- Soyi jaagti jyot jasraye laalu.
Bol laal mandir vale baba ki,
- Sada hi jay, sada hi jay, sada hi jay.
Rises when the moon & sun, prayers we do, On bhanu’s flame, remains a radiant blaze. Godesess & gods, do manifest our supplications, Daily like narada, I speak the true knowledge. Said ‘jodhaarai’, your flame ever glowing, Inspite of ups & downs, Everlasting complete bright. Fertile wives, sons, wealth, prosperity it gives, In sleep & wakefulness, the flame of yash-raj laalu. Triumphantly do call, for the red temple babaji,
- Eternal victory, eternal victory, eternal victory.
Bado hai tu data, jaako sumire parbhaata,
- Naam lete dukh jaata, aise hai laalu jasraiji.
Laal ja mandir bano, swarup jaako sunder bano,
- Aabhushan rahe man bhaaye ji.
Hinglaj ke supoot vairi mare sab doot,
- Aisa kahe ‘jodhaarai’, hove santaan sahaay ji.
Jhingan jay jaykar karre, khanne jaakar choti rakhaaye,
- Bhatt jaake stuti gaye, bhaktan man bhaayeji.
Aao magh ke mahine, kholo dang aur khajine,
- Aao poori paao, jagati jyot jasrai laalu.
Bol laal mandir vale baba ki,
- Sada hi jay, sada hi jay, sada hi jay.
Great are thou benefactor, liked are those who reminisce,
- The name spoken exits sorrow, thus is laalu yash raj ji.
May your temples be made, may your image be beautiful,
- May your ornaments be pleasing to all minds.
Hinglaj’s great sons, exterminate all enemy agents,
- Thus spake ‘jodhaarai’, helpful shall be descendants.
Jingan’s hail victory, khanna’s relinquish their tuft,
- The bhatt’s sing praises, the devotee’s much loved.
Comes Magh month, unlock pockets & the treasury,
- Come receive fully, the rousing flame of yash raj laalu.
Triumphantly do call, for the red temple babaji,
- Eternal victory, eternal victory, eternal victory.
Jaaki kavi jay jaykar karre, jo sumire jasrai,
- Vako dukh daridra nahin, jo sumire jasrai.
Jo sumire jasrai, kaaj sab baaken hoi,
- Jo sumire jasrai, vo nirdhan rahe na koi.
Jo sumire jasrai, dukh daridra nashaave,
- Jo sumire jasrai, nit utth mangal gave.
Bol laal mandir vale baba ki,
- Sada hi jay, sada hi jay, sada hi jay.
Whose victory is hailed by poets, they evoke yash raj,
- Where sorrow & poverty is absent, they evoke yash raj.
Who evokes Yash Raj, labours all fructify,
- Who evokes Yash Raj, those poor remain not.
Who evokes Yash Raj, sorrow & poverty is destroyed,
- Who evokes Yash Raj, ever rising, auspiciously sings.
Triumphantly do call, for the red temple babaji,
- Eternal victory, eternal victory, eternal victory.
SEVAK : D.D. Kapoor —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.209.16.39 (talk) 02:56, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
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| This is ridiculous and I have no idea how this khatri thing got changed so much that it makes no sense. Khatri is not hindi for khatraa...that's non-sense. Kshatriya is the sanskrit word for warrior caste and Khatri is the punjabi word for warrior caste. Caste names do not come from hindi or urdu, these are very old words from sanskrit. Khatri=Kshatriya, there is no difference and it has nothing to do with bandits, they were warriors. I happen to be a from a Kshatriya/Khatri family and yes that is why swords are part of our collection as warriors and so this article on khatri is basically saying that all the Gurus were not warriors but bandits? Ridiculous, I can't believe its even written there.
This is what it should say: "The Khatris (Punjabi) or Kshatriyas (Sanskrit, (K) silent) are a north Indian community that originated in the Potwar Plateau of Punjab. This region is historically connected with the composition of the Vedas and classics like the Mahabharata and Ashtadhyayi. In the old varna (caste) system the Kshatriya were members of the Hindu military order who as administrators and rulers, were tasked with protecting Hindu Dharma, and serving humanity. In the course of time, however, as a result of economic and political exigencies, Khatris also expanded into mercantile occupations. When India was divided to placate the demands of its Muslims for a country of their own, most of the Khatris in the Panjab which was divided to create Pakistan migrated to India. In one of the worst human trajedies of modern history, which resulted in the deaths of untold thousands, millions of Hindu and Sikh families, many of them of the Khatri caste, were forced to abandon their heriditary family lands and flee to the Indian side of the British imposed dividing line. Today Khatris live in all regions of India, but are concentrated in East Punjab, Haryana, Delhi and Uttar Pradesh. While most Khatris are Hindu, some are also Sikh, some Muslim and even a small minority are Jain. Khatris of all these faiths collectively form one community. In modern times, the Khatri play a significant role in the Indian economy, serving as businessmen, civil and government administrators, landlords and military officials." == Just a way to Bash Khatris and undermine their importance. == It seems as if Wikipedia has become another way for some people with vested interests to undermine the importance of Khatri. Most of the questionable content of dubious nature is attributed to texts by a single author of an obscure pedigree and to rely on one author for information on a community of 3 million doesn't make sense. | |
Last edited at 15:48, 19 July 2015 (UTC). Substituted at 20:39, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
- ^ As Kshatriyas
- ^ Castes, People, GAZETTEER LUDHIANA, Department of Revenue, Government of Punjab (India), Accessed on November 15, 2008; Homepage: [6]
- ^ Castes, People, GAZETTEER LUDHIANA, Department of Revenue, Government of Punjab (India), Accessed on November 15, 2008; Homepage: [7]
- ^ The Legends of the Panjab By Sir Richard Carnac Temple, Reprint of the 1884-1900 ed. published by Education Society's Press, Bombay, ISBN 0405101287
- ^ Four Legends of King Rasalu of Sialkot, The Folk-Lore Journal, 1883 Folklore Enterprises, Ltd, p. 129-151
- ^ The adventures of the Panjab hero Raja Rasalu and other folk-tales of the Panjab By Charles Swynnerton, Published 1884 Original from Oxford University
- ^ ibid
- ^ Nalwa, V. (2009), Hari Singh Nalwa-Champion of the Khalsaji, New Delhi: Manohar
- ^ a b Jwalaprasad Mishra, Jati Bhaskar, 1914
- ^ a b c d e f M.A. Sherring, Hindu Castes and Tribes as represented in Banares, 1872.
- ^ Hindu Tribes and Castes By Matthew Atmore Sherring, Published 1872 Trubner and co[8]p 277
- ^ <Political Elite and Society in the Punjab, By Puri, Nina Published 1985 Vikas
- ^ "Chowk: : The Amazing Khatris of Punjab". Chowk.com. Retrieved 2008-11-15.
- ^ Mahatma Hansraj: Maker of the Modern Punjab By Sri Ram Sharma, Published 1941, Arya Pradeshik, Pratinidhi Sabha
- ^ Census of India, 1901 By India Census Commissioner, Sir Edward Albert Gait, Published 1903 Office of the Superintendent of Government Printing, India, Part 2 Tables, page 292.
- ^ "Sri Dasam Granth Sahib". Sridasam.org. Retrieved 2008-11-15.
- ^ "Vaaran Bhai Gurdas:VaarPauri:SearchGurbani.com". Searchgurbani.com. Retrieved 2008-11-15.
- ^ Denzil Ibbetson, Edward MacLagan, H.A. Rose "A Glossary of The Tribes & Casts of The Punjab & North-West Frontier Province", 1911 AD, Page 512, Vol II,
- ^ Tribes and Castes of the Central Provinces of India By R.V. Russell, R.B.H. Lal, Re-Published 1995, Asian Educational Services
- ^ The Indian Diaspora in Central Asia and Its Trade, 1550-1900 By Scott Cameron Levi, Published 2002 BRILL
- ^ The Indian Historical Review By Indian Council of Historical Research, Published 1982 Vikas Pub. House
- ^ Denzil Ibbetson, Edward MacLagan, H.A. Rose "A Glossary of The Tribes & Casts of The Punjab & North-West Frontier Province", 1911 AD, Page 510, Vol II,
- ^ THE AÍN I AKBARI BY ABUL FAZLALLÁMI, TRANSLATED FROM THE ORIGINAL PERSIAN,BY H. BLOCHMANN, M.A.AND COLONEL H. S. JARRETT Volume 111 Page 114
- ^ Punjab Revenue Castes and Religions of Punjab]
- ^ "Punjab District Gazeeters". Punjabrevenue.nic.in. Retrieved 2008-11-15.
- ^ http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Indo-Scythians#encyclopedia