Talk:Khap

Full of contradictions

This article seems to be full of contradictions, with one sentence contradicting the one previous to it. In one sentence it is said that in the Khap, the leader's word is law. And the next sentence says that the system is democratic. Another sentence says that it is customary for the younger folk to not offer suggestions, but sit and listen. And the sentence following it says that decision making happens in an open, democratic manner. Decide on something please.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fgpilot (talk • contribs) 07:19, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

In need of attention?

The contents of the section on "Historical Day" is what specifically caught my attention. While much of it is unsubstantiated, the coverage seems to be entirely unencyclopedic. Why was the day historical? 164.100.170.4 (talk)

Links to be added

These are the links to added to this article.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/Haryana/Haryana-fears-khap-khap-fears-Sangwan/Article1-964026.aspx

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-10-29/india/34797122_1_khap-panchayats-khap-leaders-hindu-marriage-act

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-10-31/india/34836196_1_khap-panchayat-single-judge-high-court

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-11-03/india/34892508_1_gathwala-khap-panchayats-khap-leaders

http://dailypioneer.com/nation/106929-put-prohibitory-orders-in-place-against-khap-panchayats-sc-.html

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-11-21/chandigarh/35256846_1_villagers-khap-bond-kalan

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-11-02/india/34877465_1_khap-panchayats-khap-leader-marriageable-age

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/khap-power-must-be-curbed-rajasthan-shrc/1023320/

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-land-at-the-centre-of-khaps-woman-centric-marriage-codes/20121122.htm

some more links to be added to the article

http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/other-states/khap-panchayats-demand-lok-adalat-status/article3996824.ece

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/haryana-khap-panchayats-meet-today-to-push-for-early-marriages-for-girls-279111

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/khap-panchayat-from-the-sidelines-279341

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/haryana-khap-panchayats-to-meet-today-discuss-lowering-marriageable-age-for-girls/300221-3-240.html

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Khap-panchayats-back-in-spotlight-of-notoriety/Article1-942790.aspx

http://www.azadindia.org/social-issues/khap-panchayat-in-india.html

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-10-16/india/34497488_1_khap-panchayat-haryana-khap-haryana-s-jind

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Khap_Panchayat&action=edit&section=new

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

1. There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
2. It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
3. In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 23:51, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Caste panchayat

Khap is the less good article but the more common name. The two articles are fundamentally about the same subject, even though the Khap one is introduced as being pretty much a WP:DICDEF. Sitush (talk) 06:02, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Better still would be to merge and redirect to Khap panchayat, which presently redirects to the Caste panchayat article. - Sitush (talk) 06:03, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Caste panchayat has a much longer pedigree than Khap. Google scholar generates more hits under "Caste panchayat" than for "Khap panchayat". If you restrict your search to articles before year 2000, Khap returned only 11 hits. Also Khap is a more regional term popular in some northern states like Haryana. Having said that, you are the Wikipedia Guru on Caste matters so I will differ to your expert opinion in this matter. Cheers. Jonathansammy (talk) 16:54, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

@Jonathansammy: by "longer pedigree", do you mean the term has been used for longer? I'm curious now, given the claims that these things have a centuries-old history. - Sitush (talk) 10:17, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Sitush, Yes , I mean the term. At the end of the day, Caste panchayat and Khap are one and the same but "Caste panchayat" , Jati panchayat or just panchayat have been used for a longer period. The oldest text I found that used "Caste Panchayat" was by Crooke or check this book for Panchayat I am only talking for myself here but I did not know the word Khap or that it meant caste panchayat until three years ago. It could be just my ignorance but the word is not known in the areas of India I am familiar with. Well , that's my two cents. Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 13:52, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. So we would merge to Caste panchayat as the more common name, unless someone insists that it is not. Panchayat itself has a variety of uses, eg: village councils, and is probably used as a single word when the context is obvious. - Sitush (talk) 15:12, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

OK, Caste Panchayat it is then. Thanks. Jonathansammy (talk) 16:24, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

References

Oppose: Retain both. Khaps are a type of Caste panchayat. Even this source says in 3rd para that there are several types of caste panchayats. All types have several similarities but they are distinct enough to warrant their own articles.

Other types of caste panchayat are Jirga (north west India, Misl (Sikhs), Shura (Muslim communities of India), Ganasangha, Mahajanapada, Janapada (predecessor of khaps in the Jat belt), even the generic term Panchayat (as opposed to the gram panchayat) and many more. We can not merge these all. Merging stifles the growth of wikipedia.

Different types of caste panchayats are known by the different names in the respective regions and/or communities, each with their own specific differences in their social code and social norms. Articles should try to capture those differences and the specific social codes. It is a separate issue that some of these articles need cleanup or enhancements, also to include text that makes them distinct. That is no reason to merge these and stifle growth of wikipedia. Wikipedia is far from finished, thats why even the red links are encouraged.

Merging khap and caste panchayat would be akin to proposing to merge Naan, Kulcha, paratha, Aloo paratha, Parotta, Kothu parotta, Roti canai into roti, or even all of these further into pancake or even further all of these into the catch-all term Bread.
202.156.182.84 (talk) 11:50, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

From reading the articles as a non-expert, it seems that Khap is a group of clan in a particular region, and these sets of clans are sufficiently notable to be kept on a distinct page from other caste groups, and from their councils (a type of caste panchayat); so, my position is weak oppose. Klbrain (talk) 15:12, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Closed, given that there are no further arguments in support. Klbrain (talk) 20:47, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Too many issues, I'm attempting a clean up

Article has several issues, text without citations, original research, etc. I am attempting a cleanup by replacing unsourced text with the sourced text. Please wait for a day or two before making further edits, let me finish the iterations. Instead of reverts please use the incremental edits (rephrasing, additional/better sources, etc) to take the article forward in a collaboratvie manner. Thanks. 202.156.182.84 (talk) 21:42, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Your attempt at a clean up appeared to introduce synthesis of terms (Jat is not a synonym for Khap), poor sources, poor citations (no page numbers etc), and an expansion so fast and massive that I am concerned you may have introduced copy/pastes or close paraphrases.

Could I suggest that you just do one section at a time and then wait for feedback before moving on to the next section? Leave the lead section until last because (a) it is supposed to summarise what is said in the body of the article and (b) it should not by that time require citations. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 19:21, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

You did 3 reverts. each one equal to multiple revert. Based on deleted bullshit blog. Wikipedia rule is clear. no blog. That too a deleted blog, with no peer review. a good sounding blog that pretends to ask for high standards of peer review etc itself is not subjected to peer review in defaming, subsequently deleted for this absolute nonsense. How have you been getting away with this blatant misuse? Your belated attempt at justifying we (I take note of how you recruited Kautilya on taga brahmin article to lower standards by extrapolating and manipulating phrases that were not in sync with soruce and source itself was crap). Bhaut ho gya, age nhi chale ga dost. I will go to all articles and hold you accountable. We do not need to refutre blog (no blog), just stop smart gaming the system. I am not posting it on your where you have been warned/punished before for such stuff. I believe in kindness, not a fool. Please respect every one. and Do not smartly manipulate in a way that stays under the radar ..specially most of people you ran out do not know how to stand up, not inclined, just gave up by your ploys disguised as principals. Time for big change buddy. Mere bhai, walk away from these articles. You can not synthesise and introduce systematic bias on ploys of all this stuff. I have not started yet. smajhdar ko ishara kafi hai. Not going after you. I really suggest, unsubscribe these articles. BTW, I have COI question for you, are you a dalit and I ask this in the context of my post at Jat article. I do not want to hurt you or tarnish your record Sityush, lekin age ye nhi chalega mere bhai. sudhar ja. All editors are equal, you are not other editors' postdoctoral boss (other editors called you do not play god) while you lower the standards with bullshit blog as ploy slapped as standard while asking for sky high standards. Goodfaith, respoect, equal, mere bhai. I request you. p0lease i beg you for sake of your stay here and for wikipedia community, sudhar ja, enough please. Plese continue to contribute constructively but know know when to walk away and leave it to the next crop. sanp jaise kundli maar ke na baitj. tere haath jodta hun, you are even teaching new kids liike kautilya tehse bad skills. I have not yet started to hold you and others accountable. Pyar se haath jod ke bhai ki tarah se smjha rha hun. You can not lower standards to syntheise and extrapolate to introduce your biase against AJGAR (yes, dalits were exploited and it ws wrong, but your resurgent way of asserting dalit rights by misuing and smartly gaming AJAGR articels, can not go on forevr mere bhai). Pyar se haath jod ke samjha rah hun. sudhar ja. Do not make mistake like this. aur defend na kar jhoota. Read, do not reply for one week. Please I beg you, to take break from AJGAR articles forver (unsubscribe) and stay away from wikipedia for a week and find real meaningful life like talk to wife, gf, parents, your kids, volunteer work for vulnerable. jhota bhagwan na ban yahan as others called you. Please read and then revert this post. I do not want others to go after you. I just want you to learn mere bhai, and I am begging you. Pata nhi kaise samjaun tujhe,. YOu are smart but you have misused and abused it. make yourself big and undo injustice right way, not by synthesising AJGAR articles by bullshit blogs. And as for nonsense thats been going against Indian sources, I will demolish it in the right forum in due time, I hav faith in the community here. Lekin mere bhai please please "tu toh sudhar ja pehle" .. "tere ko saath leke hi dosaro ko sudhar lenge" (circular self reference we-pretext age se band, please use huge self filter'. Wikipedia is just a website that is disrespected as a poor source and you are coming up with absolute crap. Bigger problem is you are making yourself a god with authority with no accountability. Bhai, please. Forgive me for this post, I beg you, please please please help yourself and de-adict yourself and ps the baton to the next crop and graduate to higher (not packing order) but ideology (such as how do you rercuit and mentor people you run off and how to train experienced editors like you to not smartly game it under the radar). I am so sorry, this is not a nice message to read, it may hurt you, Please I beg you use this hurt as transformation and not use it as ego. Read and revert. I do not want anyone holding it against you in future, that is why I used no warning. I did not post on your talkpage. I not post on high visibility article. I wish I knew your email and I would have privately given you this exasperated constructive feedback in goodfaith sacche pyare dil se. Tujhey padh ke dukh lagea, mujhey maaf kar diyo hai. Stop being uipset with the world and life. Life is unfair, people are shit, but still awesome and worthy of love and respect, sab ko de, give that to even AJGARs, and not synthesise it to assert dalit rights, we can not right the wrong by committing more wrongs, however smartly done and justified. Do not slap me with vague wikipedia guidelines, I deliberately do not pipelink, cus its like shutting others up with wiki lawyering you do vaguely without giving spcific sustainable actioanble feedback. Bhai, haath jod rha hi tere, your life is not here, power aur self esteem and real purpose and meaningfu;l quality life is outside here, which you know already whre to fix, be more humble, less ego, be kind, create more, destroy/revert less, all will be beautiful in your life mere bhai. I wish I can take you out nicely for a loving dinner and drink eek pyare se chotu bhai kio tarash se. Plese baccha, mat kar aise kaam age se. Tu dil ka accha hai, smart hai, intelligent hai. Be the kind mentor ... not the antagonising smart under the radar biased gamer. In you, I trust. I beg you, do not fail my faith in your humane goodness. Read kar ke reevert maar (there is no warning tag, etc). Stay blessed and have an awesome meaningful life bhai. I am so sorry ki maine itna faltu ka gyan jhad diya, please sacche dil se aur pyar se mujhey maaf kar dena, please forgive yourself and the world first please. Mujhey pata hai bahut mun fadd diya. acche dil se kiya hai bhai, please maafi de diyo. And, revert. Hugs. 202.156.182.84 (talk) 11:08, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I cannot understand much of what you are saying above or in the next section below. You appear to be very upset about something that appears on Beall's list but we do generally accept that if something is on that list then it is a predatory journal and should not be cited. - Sitush (talk) 11:51, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Etymology

The word may derive from the Indo-Iranian word KSHATRAP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satrap. Also see Western Satraps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Satraps) a Saka /Scythian community who are most likely the ancestors of present day Jats. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ajayjo (talk • contribs) 16:32, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Further to my above response to the IP contributor, they had introduced an Etymology section which said:

The term "khap" comes from the Hindi//Rajasthani word "faank" (offshoot or fraction), which was used in the medieval times to decribe the ruling classes of Rajasthan, for example the first census of Jodhpur State in 1890-1891, recorded people based on religion and caste, further categorised by Gotras and gotras were termed as Khap. Other contemporary term for khaps is Pal. These were earlier also known as Janapada and Ganasangha. The term khap is now used for the geographical socio-political grouping.

What are those sources and on which page(s) do they say what we claim? I'm particularly concerned about the Asian Journal of Multidimensional Research because journals with such titles tend not to be reliable, even if they have not yet appeared on Beale's List of predatory journals. . - Sitush (talk) 19:27, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

References

FWIW, the first cite above would appear to be Bharadwaj, Suraj Bhan (May 2013). "Myth and Reality of the Khap Panchayats: A Historical Analysis of the Panchayat and Khap Panchayat". Studies in History. 28 (1): 43–67. doi:10.1177/0257643013477250. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |subscription= ignored (|url-access= suggested) (help)

I cannot see it and will probably have to ask for a copy at WP:RX. - Sitush (talk) 19:34, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

I've found the other source - see here - and I don't like it. The lead author is a doctoral student and the full name of neither author is given. It looks a bit sloppy to me. - Sitush (talk) 19:50, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

A dscredited, god sounding but bullshit' discredited deleted BLOG can not be (mis)used as ploy disguised as . NO BLOG. Rule is simple. Can not go beyiond it. that too, deleted blog, that too discredited. Onusis not on us to refutue the absolute nonsense. If there was naive goodfaith trust in this crap, then yes we owe it to wikipedia community to make them aware to discard nonsense BLOD that writer himself will not standby. NO BLOG rule is not clear enough. Just do not game it please. I am yet to question Taga brahmin SYNTHESISE by convassing Kautikya. Please, stop, be good. 202.156.182.84 (talk) 10:13, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

India Education Program course assignment

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The above message was substituted from {{IEP assignment}} by PrimeBOT (talk) on 20:12, 1 February 2023 (UTC)