Talk:Kannadigas/Archive 1

Archive 1

Vijayanagar empire

Vijayanagar empire was not a Kannada empire. The articles on this topic clearly point out great deal of controversy. It is not right to brand things outright without clear evidences.Kumarrao 07:35, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

There are controversies about every Kingdom in India. The Vijayanagara rulers lived in the Karnataka region, espoused Kannada and Telugu. Feel free to include them in "Telugu people" article also.Dineshkannambadi 14:51, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Learn to be impartial

I am certain you did not read the article (http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1d.html) carefully.

It seems there are certain standards for Kannada-speaking Wiki users and others for different users. You brand 'Adluri's web reference as a blog site and at the same time defend 'Old Kannada' origin by citing the same reference. Try to recollect your umpteen contributions to Wiki where you cited innumerable blogs and web pages in addition to a handful of books published by Kannada enthusiasts to show "Kannada empire" extended upto Gujarat and Bihar. For you, all south Indian dynasties were Kannada empires. You have perpetrated this perfidy in many articles related to Andhra and Maharashtra history. Now you say Kannada was spoken upto Godavari. I would like to see those sentences from Pampa's works. Cite them.

Pampa was a Telugu Brahmin from ancient Kammanadu (Guntur dt) who adopted Jainism and was patronized by Vemulavada Telugu Chalukyan King Arikesari.

Please read the webpage (http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1d.html)critically and learn how to write history impartially and dispassionately. The article has a true historical account of Pampa, Chalukyans, Renati Cholas etc., Do not think medieval Cholas and Chalukyas had your hyper-enthusiastic outlook about language.

Vijayanagar empire had the capital in Hampi which is now located in a region that comes under "Karnataka". That does not mean it was Kannada empire. It was historically known as "Karnata Rajya". Even Telugu poets mentioned so. There is a clear distinction between "Karnata empire" and "Kannada empire". I think all Kannada Wiki users ignore this subtle difference. Andhra Satavahanas ruled almost entire South India, Western India and, at one point of time, upto Bihar. That would not make it Telugu or Maharashtrian empire. No Telugu historian ever lost this sense of proportion.

I have been waging a war with a couple of Kannada Wiki users to defend a historical truth about Telugu script and Telugu language. A reference I cited becomes a blog to ignore my input but the same reference becomes invaluable and handy to silence me. What kind of logic, rationale, and reason are present in these acts?

I am being collectively browbeaten. My edits are reverted without citing any reason. On the other hand, I am forced to give lengthy explanations which are ignored and branded as conjectures. I cannot imagine how a script can travel to South East Asia from Karnataka? Did it fly over Telugu and Tamil regions?Kumarrao 18:58, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Kumar, in your eagerness to defend your POV, you are overlooking an important wiki principle, which is: your source needs to be reliable. Can you establish Adluri to be a reliable source, per wiki standards ? A quick glance through his website doesn't lead me to believe so. Dinesh, like others here, has a POV - but he has cited enough reliable sources and has written his articles according to wiki policies. If you can find enough reliable evidence to support your claims, there won't be any war to wage... you will find several people willing to help you. So, please do more research and find reliable sources to support yourself . Cheers! Lotlil 00:53, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for the advice. Going by your own advice, please delete the material put in by Kannada wiki users in the articles Telugu script and Telugu language by citing the same reference. Why don't you preach this to the people who first did the same thing? Can a source become reliable for some and unreliable for me? Is it not hypocrisy? If you do not do it, I shall be compelled to doubt your integrity. Kumarrao 05:24, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Nobody is trying to preach to you, I only reminded you how to go about editing around here. If you feel that doesn't suit your style, you shouldn't be here. Anyway, if what you allege is true, that someone is using this same source to further their POV, I agree that it needs to be fixed. Why don't you do this: In this talk page, list all the controversial statements from this article (the ones which you have an issue with and the ones which the others do). And for each item, cite your sources and explain why you agree or disagree. Let's work through it one at a time. Lotlil 14:09, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

No one except Kumarrao has been citing that so called reference pointed by him. The claim made by him is a blatant lie and mislead. Gnanapiti 16:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Reference

I am again citing the reference: (http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1d.html) Please see the figures T1a and T1b. Kumarrao 07:43, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Please avoid political issues

Dear IP user, please avoid making this a political article. I am also a Kannadiga, perhaps like you, but its important to understand that wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a popular newspaper to aire anti-Tamil, anti-Hindi views. If you have any serious reservations against any ethnic group, fell free to start a blog site for the purpose. We want to develop the Kannadiga article into a featured article meeting wikipedia guidelines and the edits you have made dont meet the guide lines.Dineshkannambadi 11:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Boss ,we need not hide truth just to please our neighbours.People like you are actually disasters. WHat do you mean by avoid political issues then we need to erase everything. Contemporaraily you should be good enough to display facts. Karnataka bundh was not politically motivated. All writers unitedly are trying for classical status - And everybody knows what Tamil and Centre politics have done for a Kannadiga. Why not discuss it? That IP user is not anti Tamil or anti Hindi . He is against the political system of India and every Kannadiga is for that matter. Why are you suppressing it.All the things which you have removed have proper That means you are hiding the facts to be friends to others. Boss leave this attitude man .Else there won't be anyone .Satya nishturanaagiru kannambadi. Hope you will revert back all the facts because you people have barn stars and thinga like admin and at free will can make wikipedia a tamil or englishpedia. Kali-K 15:37, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Dear Kali-k, I am not trying to hide facts, nor am I am trying to be popular with anyone. I will carefully go through your edits and retain what is worthy of a encyclopedia. Also, wikipedia is all about verifiability, not the "truth". Hope you understand. My best wishes.Dineshkannambadi 16:25, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Just some more to unveil your ignorance what politics can play in normal life

A writer in churumuri blog feels this giving very rational thoughts:

• After the Cauvery tribunal verdict when Kannadigas were protesting the injustice meted out to them, Kannada films (Maataad Maataad Mallige, Preethi eke Bhoomi mele ide) that were being filmed in TN were threatened and hounded out of TN by Tamil fanatics. Hence we need to protest the release of Sivaji in Karnataka.
• Sankar who has directed Sivaji produced a highly disgusting movie by the name Imsai Arasan Pulikeshi in 2006. Throughout this film, he has made mockery of the great Kannadiga king Pulikeshi. Also in the same film, he depicts a character by name Sangolli Raayanna as a traitor supporting foreigners. Although this film was banned in Karnataka because of protests by Kannada organizations, director Sankar has not apologized for his mistakes in Imsai Arasan Pulikeshi. Hence we need to protest against Sivaji, a film directed by Sankar.
• Karnataka Film chamber of commerce is a trade body which has been established to develop the markets of films of languages from Karnataka (Kannada, Tulu, Konkani) both within Karnataka and outside Karnataka. Instead of doing what it is supposed to do as mandated, it is promoting Tamil, Hindi and Telugu film / film related market in Karnataka. There is absolutely no effort by KFCC to develop the market for Kannada film / film related industry outside Karnataka (within India / outside India). Whatever little marketing is happening outside is because of effort by individuals / Kannada associations. Protest against this sellout by KFCC with regard to Sivaji by boycotting this movie.
• Kannada film industry is on resurgence. Kannada films have huge market. This has been proven by Mungaru Male whose revenues are supposed to have touched Rs 40 crores +. As of 2006, the 5th all-time highest grosser (in India) was about Rs. 35-40 crores. So all this shit that Kannada films do not have markets and that they are not good enough is all false propaganda. Since lots of good Kannada films are running to packed houses in Karnataka, any attempts to release Sivaji on a large scale in Karnataka will deprive Kannadigas from watching their favorite Kannada films. Hence we need to oppose this movie’s release.
• Tamil film market is on a low in Karnataka because of the following reasons:

• Good quality of Kannada films • Tamilians joining Karnataka mainstream by adopting everything Kannada including Kannada films This has resulted in heartburn for the Tamil film industry and their agents (like a former KFCC president in Karnataka). They are using release of Sivaji on a large scale to create hype and thereby create a market for smaller Tamil films that follow.

• Although Tamilians in Karnataka have access to entire range of Tamil news and entertainment media (TV, films, newspapers, magazines, etc), Kannadigas in Tamil Nadu do not have such access. Inspite of the population of Kannadigas in TN being 50 lakh +, they are denied their right to news & entertainment in Kannada. Out of the 9 channels that Kannada has on cable TV, at most 1-2 channels are provided access in TN, no Kannada films are allowed in TN, entry barriers are created for Kannada newspapers / magazines distribution in TN, etc. We need to highlight this injustice done to Kannadigas in TN by opposing the movie Sivaji.

Just go through the wiki articles on Tamil . They would have furnished minute of the stupid details and nobody questions it yaake -olle naayi gala thara jagalakke ninthirthaare - next to those involved in article like christianity. Aa lofor English avrige bere ella dharmada article mele interest - just to throw stones at them. Next to them are Tamils. Ivru sting operations nadisthaare. Namma duraadrushta pakkadalle irbeku. Even today archeological centre at Mysoor has lot of evidences of old Kannada records but nobody is bothered . WHo do you make responsible for this? Have you seen the attitude of Tamilians in Bengaloor. Alle eththi Baarisa beku.

And someone like Telegraph- Bongaligala tharale -talks about Kannadiga as intolerant http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070618/asp/nation/story_7938214.asp

Also view this for centre's political stand for someone of stature of S L Bhyrappa - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8791848966367226138&hl=en

None of us like to fight but constantly we are questioned and somewhere we need to answer . Hope you know it.

When I said avoid political issues, I meant "avoid political issues on this encyclopedia, not everywhere". I understand your grief and your concerns, but this is not the place to air it. You should consider starting a newspaper, perhaps an evening paper and make sure it reaches the masses. You have failed to understand the meaning of "encyclopedia". I grew up in Bengaluru and understand your concerns. best of luck.Dineshkannambadi 12:01, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

So are you going to remove all Kingdoms and Empires - they are also political past. Do you mean all protests and injustice (given with links) goes off without entering encyclopedia- Now this is politics?

I would have started a media but they are already sufficient available there and there is no problem with masses but the so called intellectual(literate,uneducated,capitalists-sometimes racial against their own culture/language/origin, or who speak mother tongue only inside their house and profess it also! and athithidevaru(mg road-koramanagala stretch) and those who are blessed from them and shelter them) ) classes are the problem. Only some people are Jaana-Kurudaru not to see this!

Vijayanagar

It was a Telugu empire established by Telugu brothers Hakka and Bukka, who were Golla Nayaks employed in the court of Kakatiya King Prataparudra. They were captured when Warangal fell to muslims, taken to Delhi and converted to Islam. They were sent to subdue Hoysala king by Delhi sultanate. They did it but got reconverted to Hinduism under the influence of Vidyaranya and established Vijayanagar kingdom. See Robert Sewell's "Vijayanagar: A Forgotten Chapter of Indian History" ((http://historion.net/r.sewell-vijayanagar-history-india/). A large number of local books and webpages will give false and biased information going against Sewell's well researched history.Kumarrao 07:35, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Your arguement is insufficient. Just as there are some scholars who claim Harihara and Bukka Raya were Telugu, similarly there are other scholars who claim Harihara and Bukka were Kannadigas. Cant give higher priority to Sewell, just to please you.Dineshkannambadi 12:17, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Logical

That is exactly the reason I said that the matter is controversial. Your edit is quite reasonable. Although I may not necessarily agree with some of the authors you quoted, I rest the matter as it sounds logical now. I hope your fellow Kannadiga users also follow similar logic. Policy of coexistance is what the example of Vijayanagar teaches us. All the best.Kumarrao 18:00, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

For the vested interests in Kannada

I have been seeing anti-Kannada feelings grown by other linguists in this article which is why they have tried making everything into some unknown truth. Please don't remove facts like Tulu and Kodava being integral part of Kannada culture and Konkani also being one prominent part from this. I know this may hurt narrow mided people but our heart is broad and we have a huge diversity and have achieved a unity in it. There is also a community which being Kannadigas are very coward to speak it also and patronise foriegn language. A bright example is Narayana Murthy . Being a leader of sorts he is shy to speak his mother tongue anywhere but his house. This has indeed created a room( rather a hall) for those who don't know anything and google just anything and everything and paste it here in the name of globalization. Time and again your efforts will be cut down as there are some hardcore Kannadigas here.

Venu62 : The Tamil sock

Please remove this puppet Tamil Konga guy as he is spreading vandalism in Kannada related articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.92.150 (talk) 11:51, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot 15:01, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

The name Kannadigas

I have placed a request for a rename to Kannadiga (as an uncontroversial move). I feel this is appropriate, as the term Kannadigas is an English plural, Kannadiga is the original term and is also in widespread use. It would also be standard usage; compare for instance Malayali, Hindu, Muslim. Imc (talk) 16:50, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Rk4.jpg

Image:Rk4.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:23, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Kannadigas are NOT Dravidian in all sense of the term.

Kannadiga culture, ethnicity and language is predominantly Dravidian. Only one of these criterion is required to be classified as a Dravidian people and Kannadigas are one of the biggest Dravidian ethnic groups, classified as south Dravidian. I can't believe user Dineshkannambadi actually undid my edits considering this very obvious fact. "Just because a language is dravidian, does not mean the people are too." was his justification, this has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard considering the Dravidian topic. Some people seem to think that Dravidian implies a colonial description of a predominantly black skinned and wavy haired people I think. If Kannadigas are not Dravidian, there are no Dravidian people in India and the world. I will redo my edits for encyclopedic contents sake, and if anyone wants to revert them, please feel free to try and disprove conventional classification of Kannadiga people as Dravidian by all academia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravidian_peopleNambo (talk) 07:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Sir, You are once again using abuse in using terms like "dumbest" in your replies. This is against wiki policy. An admin will be intimated about your language. Now, Just because Kannada is a dravidian language, it does not mean all Kannadigas are dravidian people. Please stop being an expert on a complicated issue, that even hardened indologists have a hard time answering.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 12:59, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Kannadigas are 'dravidian' only to the extent that the language they speak has come to be classified linguistically under the group of 'Dravidian' languages. Anything beyond that, is, but the puerile imagination of Messrs EVRamasami naicker, pavanar and the like run wild. The Kannadigas have as much in common with 'Indo-Aryan' Marathis as they have with telugus or tulus or malayaless or tamils. The 'Dravidian' tamils of lanka probably have more in common with 'Indo-Aryan' sinhalese than they have with kannadigas or kodavas or for that matter, perhaps even tamils of india. And surely, Kannadigas have just about as much in common with the Chinese and the Dutch as they have with the 'Brahuis'! In this light, the 'Related ethnic groups' that Nambiar is seeking to add to the infobox is not only silly, unscholarly and unencyclopedic, but it is also misleading. I request User:Nambiar to stop edit warring about this. Sarvagnya 18:39, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow, amazing how a dedicated cabal can keep out certain information on WP. I guess nothings perfect. Based on WP articles currently, Telugus, Tamils and Malayalees are stated as Dravidian and Kannadigas are Indo-Aryans speaking a Dravidian language I suppose according to Dineshkannambadi and Kannadigas as related to Marathis as other Dravidian people (culture included!), which will be very hard to prove, and that they are as related to Chinese people as they are to Brahui people, according to Sarvagnya. Why don't we all ignore the prevalent usage of the term Dravidian and Indo-Aryan people, used to describe related cultures, languages and ethnicities in south Asia, when it comes to the Kannadiga article.Nambo (talk) 22:56, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

How about someone showing sources that explicitly say that Kannadigas are or are not Dravidian? Carl.bunderson (talk) 00:05, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=_MozAAAAMAAJ&q=dravidian+people+kannadiga&dq=dravidian+people+kannadiga&lr=&pgis=1, Robert Caldwell the first user of the term Dravidian in the meaning we know now used it to refer to south Indians specifically, P. 678 Dancing With Siva: Hinduism's Contemporary Catechism, By Himalayan Academy, Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami, Master Subramuniya. Nambo (talk) 09:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Snipptes are not acceptable as citations. They lack context. Also , see the confusion the author causes by calling the Tamils, Kannadigas etc. as races.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 13:37, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I can't judge that ref without seeing at least the whole page, to get a sense of what is going on. Carl.bunderson (talk) 23:34, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

The language Kannada is classified as a Dravidian language and anything beyond that is open to imagination and OR and hence should be kept out of Wikipedia. Period. And Mr. Nambiar stop taking user's names and stick to what your argument is. -- ¿Amar៛^{Talk to me/My edits} 05:10, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I have been seeing quite a lot of changes and happy as they are for right causes. All the classification is just the outcome of pre alliances between Madras and English rules to make it convenient to themselves to sit at top. Nowhere in Kannada literature anyone finds the name Dravida. Dravida means Tamil and only Tamil if at all they want to stick to Aryan - Dravidian political theory (where Ram was Aryan and Ravana was demonish Dravidian and then come to Ram was white and Ravana was black -Ram being an Aryan and also white came from Europe and Indians were originally black and then everyone were fucked up and made white and then brought refinement of sanskrit from which all Dravidian languages took loan words and sounded in ecstasy and Manu smriti said pancha Dravida are nothing but shudras -sanskrit meaning and they are eligible to lift only the shit and all the crap) which is baseless. Since most of the unversity goers and history writers come from English and Tamil ancestory (Iyyer more intereated in whitish complexion) it is convenient for them to change the facts to their own usage. What English has done to Greek is what Tamil is doing to Kannada. Sanskrit can never be separated from Kannada . Remove all the contributions of Kannadiga from Sankrit and Britons will tell sanskrit has come from English. It is a refinement and a book's language where a culture can be refinedly expressed. Sankrit is still evolving and that it has come from an unknown sky through Europe and whites and all is a CRAP) The only other language which come near to sanskrit is Hindi mostly spoken by UP,Bihar and Kashmiri pundits and it can be safely said that the literature in sanskrit which has been contributed by Kannadiga surpasses any other linguist contribution. Kannada engulfs in itself the colloquial tongue and a vast grammar and dialects that people fail to recognize it.

It can be seen that in history there has been a try to separate samskuthi and prakruthi or sanskrit and prakrit. Same way to tell a Brahmin is the only one to be descending from pure God. Keep them separated from rest and kindle fights. But Kannada stands apart . Even Pampa and Kumara Vyasa wrote Mahabharatha. Tell me a sanskrit term which doesn't get used in Kannada and look at the dialects and rural tongue . It's vast. Slowly by thories they separated Sanskrit and remaining colloquial tongue was given the name Kannada. Since Kannada empire was backstabbed nobody was in a position or factual to prove these since predominat thinkers believe that languages should not fight ; it's as useless as proving crow learnt to caw before a sheep learnt to bleat! and about Indian Tamil- Oh God What a mess they have made. Take the Lankan simhalese and resemblance with it. Take the Dravidian term antiquity given by Britons and put together with a guerilla LTTE and oppose Hindi and there you get the oldest and classical Indian language Tamil which becomes root for all languages . All crap. Now what they are doing to keep Kannada antiquity lesser is to make trees and roots as if to give a btree implementation :- Tamil-Kannada and to get the sympathy of Tulu Iyyers( specially Aishwarya Rai's(although a bunt) fairness should have haunted them ) start from Tamil-Tulu .( The Iyyerish fights quite nicely cashed out in Dasavatharam ) Then separate Kodava and Kannada out of it. I was shocked to see there is something called Badaga language also and Kannada was derived from it.(till now i thought badaga , soliga are integral and inseparable tribes of Kannadiga). While no Kannadiga tries to edit any of the Tamil articles every Tamil politician wants to edit Kannada article. Some one who has posted already about Kulandai swamy is really plausible. That is what exactly is happening to a language found in Ashoka's Brahmagiri edict. No matter no one gives us classical status , no matter our empires were backstabbed and we are still backstabbed we still should hold the swabhimana for that is our wealth and health. Our language spreads from Ooru in south to Vaada in North . We range from black to white . The language has prakrutha and samskrutha as its two ends. Our writers wouldn't have reached the maturity to coin a term Vishwa Maanava without such depth in philosophy. I request all the Kannadigaru to come above all the published results from inconvenient sources and respect our culture and ancestory. Kali-K (talk) 05:03, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

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Heavy POV tone

This article has a strong POV tone, and does not follow wikipedia guidelines on language and content. Wikipedia is not a place to display emotions, victim complex, politics of ethnicity & language, or whatever we (kannadigas) carry out on the streets today in the name of Kannada pride. I am sure we can present all of that in a more intelligent manner without using weasel words, instead of ranting about past glory and how we are currently downtrodden. --Shree (talk) 11:05, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Can you elaborate where you think the article expresses "downtroddeness". Also, please be more specific why you feel the article rants about past glory. The wordings can be altered a bit. As such, this article, like any of its kind, has been edited by IP's quite often and it is hard to maintain a stable version of it.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 14:15, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Dineshkannambadi, I hope your questions are rhetoric, otherwise what are words like 'backstabbing', 'irony' doing in the article? The whole section 'Kannada Kannadiga Karnataka' reeks of victim complex - I don't want to go into my on rant on this talk page as I think this is the wrong forum, but a lot of the kannada community's woes are a result of its own doings; a major introspection exercise is needed today, but instead we find pleasure in wallowing in self pity, which often involves invoking memories of past glory which are far away in history, and most importantly, intolerance to what we perceive as 'other' culture/language/race/FITB. I hope you can see from my perspective. I am all for historical accuracy, but in spirit and fact, this article digresses a lot from the point.

Also, the language used in the article has more emotional appeal than encyclopaedic information - e.g. 'The joy of independence soon gave way to disappointment as the new government started dragging its feet on Karnataka Ekikarana movement', etc. I don't think, and I think you agree, that wikipedia is a place to show off Kannada pride. As you suggested to someone on this page, the content of this article suits more to a ka.ra.ve. tabloid than wikipedia. At the risk of sounding ad hominem, I wish to say that I am disappointed that a veteran wikipedian like you jumped to defend this blatantly non-encyclopaedic article and removed the POV and wikify tags without a second thought. --Shree (talk) 12:24, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi Sreewiki. I have not even bothered to read the bottom portion of the article, which I am sure is in a mess, which is why I mentioned that it is hard to maintain a reasonable stable version. Without naming any wikipedian, these unencyclopaedic content get put in whenever there is a conflict between KA-TN governments. Dont get me wrong, I fully agree with your opinion that some sections have degraded to newspaper levels, something I am not responsible for, nor which I am defending. Feel free to tag specific sections you feel are unworthy of wikipedia, not the whole article. I put together the top portion on history (sections: "Kannada Empires" - which was called "Empires that patronised Kannada", and "Immigrants from Karnataka") because that is my interest (with reliable citations). You may even delete all those statements that are not cited or seem unencyclopaedic. By tagging a whole article, you may be doing more harm then help because that gives ammunition to drive-by editors to call the whole article a hoax, where as much of it is reliable and verifyable, especially the top half of the article. Hope this clarifies my position and removes any dissappointment on your side.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 15:15, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi Sreewiki, I will tell you historicla accuracy and the present accuracy. Without the DMK support and Sonia Gandhi , Chidambaram , and Karuna Politics who had time to decalre Tamil as a classical language and who would have benfitted politically from it? It's just a political agenda. Now Kannada has also got it.In a 5 year term congress plays all sorts of games and even things to cover it. I think Tamil is a name given to separate North Indians and South Indians on basis of language and colour and nothing else like even today if you are in mumbai they call you either punjabi or madrasi or bengali and since most thing of money originated there things are popular like that . No identity for anyone else!!!! It's world wide known a common Kannadiga is not a great traveller niether tries to defend anything unless it becomes too noisy. That doesn;t mean we don't have any pride or power. Although the cool Bangalore climate does make most of men soft that doesn;t take away the toughness but a little more sophisticated to be recognised by Tamil intellectuals!! And Tamil - > Dravida -> shudra - just a way to separate the fair skinned and get some workers into force . The more Tamilians get involved with the Aryan - Dravidian theory the more you people will get away from Kannadiga and please don't indulge us into the ocean of clumsy written ideas and theories. Kannada literature is far far far more developed to provide the civilzations and history in right perspective than any of the world literature and hence we normally don't fight. I hope if Kannada literature gets translated to Tamil, hope there is some improvement in your way of thinking about the immediate undemanding but spirited neighours. I don;t think there is anything wrong in use of Backstabbing.

Semi Protection tag added

For those fanatics who are proud being Tamil without knowing it's origin and those Hindi/Hindus who don't know where they stand in India and those England's kids who remain kiddies forever life is going to be tougher. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kali-K (talk • contribs) 23:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

listing non kannadiga people as kannadiga

firsty anil kumble's family hails from kasargod kerala and ravi shastri does not even know kannada he is of tulu origin. sri sri ravi shankar is tamil and krishnadevaraya and former isro chairman u r rao are tulu. vijay mallya and freedom fighter chattopadhya are konkani as also rahul dravid is a marathi.this article smells of well known kannada chauvanism propagated by fringe groups like kannada rakshana vedike who do not even known that the doyen of kannada literature kinyanna rai's mother tongue is tulu.everything that is from karnataka isn't kannada.there are so many liguistic minorities in the state and claiming them as kannadigas is disgusting. no wonder kodavas want separate coorg tulu people want tulu nadu and konkani people in uttara kannada want to be with goa and belgaum with maharashtra.stop this kannada chauvinism and save karnataka.this is a beautiful state but it is not just for kannada people.Princeofdark07

firstly i sympathise with User talk:C21K since he can't understand simple english and his answers are completely indiffirent to my questions.anil kumble's baboor kamme brahmin staus is unsourced check the wikipedia page.i have written his family hails from kerala,i never mentioned about his birth place secondly this half kannadiga thing is utter rubbish one is either kannadiga or not. mallya and dravid are not matrilineal people that they will adopt kannada status and anyways their maternal origins which u state is rubbish.sri sri ravi shankar is tamil is well known and about varsha kannadiga award the karnataka government gave something simlar also to veerendra heggade though he is a tulu speaker.so this reason is invalid.the interview about ravi shastri states he can understand little kannada beacause he lived in bangalore for few years and not that he is a kannadiga ,his family hails from tulu brahmin community in Inna near mangalore,his knowing of tulu is another matter since he was born and brought in mumbai.definately his origins are not kannadiga.SAME IS ABOUT U R RAO HE IS BILINGUAL IN KANNADA AND TULU AND TULU IS HIS MOTHER BECAUSE HE IS SHIVALLI BRAHMIN THEIR MOTHER TONGUE IS TULU.these people are also referred to a tuluva brahmins or erabrandiri in kerala where they have migrated. everyone knows about it.and also i am sorry about the kuvempu thing i wanted to write kinyanna not kuvempu.and also i have listed krishnadevaraya as being tulu and not kannadiga no answers about it. and the jokepedia thing is to cheap a thought to comment on.and please read this link about non kannadiga behaviour of kumble and dravid. http://churumuri.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/secret-of-kumbles-success-is-his-un-kannadiganess/ and one more thing kannada rakshana vedike is spoiling the image of kannadigas which u support. and i have met sri sri many times and his tamil is pretty impeccable,can't say the same about his kannada and most of his discourses are in english not kannada. and more importantly he was born in tamil nadu he is a true blue tamilian to use your words.and the refrence u site in ur reply are of no relevance vijay mallya bought the tipu sultan sword because he is a proud indian similarly he has bought mahatma gandhi's stuff that doesn't make him a proud gujarati (again to use your words).more importanly i think u have problem in understanding english email me if u need any help.in india u can't be a monoglot and speak only kannada or for that matter any other language.and please this article does serious injustice to the kannadiga people,improve it and stop wasting your time by writing about aryan dravidian fallacy in kannadiga article.it is of no use dravidiaan does not refer to a race but a language family.and if kannada is not part of it as you claim then kannada does not qualify to be a classical language about which you make no mention of.

Anil Kumble is a Kamme Brahmin, a true blue kannadiga, he born in bangalore, not in kerala aleast you don't know that. anyway nice poorjoke, people will laugh at you if you say he is not kannadiga.

Vijay Mallya - his father is konkani and his mother is kannadiga. interestingly he is proud of being kannadiga not as Konkani. see[1][2][3]

Sri Sri Ravi Shankar is a Kannadiga for sure, that is why he received "Varshada Kannadiga" award in 2007 (see his official site). he always speaks in Kannada, have you ever met Ravi Shankar?

Rahul Dravid - his father is a deshashta brahmin and his mother Pushpa is Kamme Kannada brahmin, so rahuldravid qualifies as half-kannadiga. moreover he is also proud being kannadiga - see this source http://www.hindu.com/2004/07/12/stories/2004071208280400.htm

Ravi Shastri said in an interview , he knows kannada not tulu. see [4]

U.R.Rao - his mother tongue is Kannada not tulu, see this source, it is very clear http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/03/17/stories/2002031703000400.htm

and what you said?? Kuvempu's mother tongue is Konkani?? "It's the greatest joke ever told". Kuvempu is a Vokkaliga , a genuine kannadiga.

finally, next time when you post any messages in talkpage, make sure that you are not posting any jokes, because this is encyclopedia not jokepedia. C21K^talk 12:05, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Wordpress is a blog , it is not a reliable source, these type of links are not accepted in wikipedia. that blog author "Arvind Swaminathan" don't know anything about Kumble. the author Arvind states in that blog as"Of course, this is just a theoretical argument. I have no data to prove my point." so whole thing what he written is a crap. between i've found another interesting thing that, Rahul Dravid and Anil Kumble spoke Kannada even in the field. see http://www.hindu.com/2006/05/11/stories/2006051115160200.htm. so what is that nonsense "un-Kannadiganess". see the above source,what Kumble said, rest of the indian team also learned some Kannada words. second, you should not have any problem when peoples like Mallya and Dravid identifies themselves as Kannadigas (source is already provided). Ravi Shastri don't even Know Tulu, you calling him as Tuluva lol!!. UR Rao mother tongue is Kannada for sure(source already provided), not all shivallis are Tulu, there are lot of shivalli madhwas who are Kannadigas. do you know "Shamrao Kalmadi" he is shivalli brahmin, he started Kannada Sangha in Pune, he is Kannadiga not Tulu. Ravi Shankar is a Kannadiga, how can a tamil receives a Kannadiga award?. Krishnadevaraya is Tuluva, no doubt in it. it was me who added source in Tuluva article. see [5], but some scholars call him as Kannadiga and others call him as Telugu, Krishnadevaraya also listed in List of Telugu people.

Aryan -Dravidian theory is written by someone, not by me; check the edit history, I always believes that Kannadigas are Dravidians. C21K^talk 15:03, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Your link http://www.thehindu.com/2006/04/06/stories/2006040618870200.htm does not prove him to be a ethnic kannadiga, All people from Karnataka are honour by the state govt. kannadiga is a generic term here. Many Tuluvas like Veerendra Heggade are honoured by the state as Kannadigas, even though ethinically the are not Kannadigas. I request you to kindly remove Anil Kumble's name from the list till we reach a conclusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.50.116.116 (talk) 09:49, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I think the names of Vijay mallya, Ravi Shastri and Rahul Dravid need to be deleted from the kannadiga list. These people are not ethnic kannadigas. They are Konkani, Tuluva and Marathi respectively, though two of them are living in Karnataka and have learnt to speak Kannada. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.50.116.116 (talk) 10:10, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Vijay Mallya is Konkani? prove it first, Rahul Dravid is proud of being Kannadiga(source provided), Ravi Shastri is Tuluva? prove it first.

I've observing your edits since you started vandalizing the Kannada language article (remember last year)...till now none of your edits are constructive or valuable...i guess you are a school student, better you go and do your schoolworks, wikipedia is clearly not for you.

finally,If a person is identified as Kannadiga, then they are called as Kannadigas only, Mallya, Dravid are proud of being Kannadigas. Wikipedia believes in what reliable sources says not in you. C21K^talk 10:28, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

We are talking about ethnic kannadigas here, by virtue of being in Karnataka every one can call himself a Kannadiga, but that will not change his ethnicity. No source has been provided for any of these people. U said 'if a person is identified as kannadiga' now what does this mean? Identified by whom? please enlighten 188.50.116.116 (talk) 10:34, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Mallya and Dravid are proud of being Kannadigas, can't you see the sources. I remember once what Dinesh said to me, he said don't respond to the disruptive IP's. i advice you to do some constructive work, go and improve tulu related articles. C21K^talk 10:40, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Being proud is different, ethnicity is different, any peoson living in karnataka can be proud of being a Kannadiga what ever his ethinicity is. Mallya is a Konkani surname and Dravid maharastrian. More over Dravid married a marathi girl from his native Nagpur.188.50.116.116 (talk) 10:45, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Check this link, you will be clear about Vijay Mallya ethinicity http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/konkani/prominent_konkanis.htm188.50.116.116 (talk) 10:48, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I atleast hope you will now delete Vijay Mallya's name after seeing the link.188.50.116.116 (talk) 10:50, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I Have more than 5 sources(3 sources above) to say Mallya is Kannadiga, and he announced in a public that he is proud of being Kannadiga. moreover his mother is Kannadiga(ediga caste) now stop making joke comments, a tamil, a telugu or anyother will never identifies as Kannadigas, though they are born in Karnataka. you are big problematic to wikipedia. It doesn't matter what there surname is, Dravid is proud of being Kannadiga and speaks Kannada with Kumble even in the field(see source above). We believe in Dravid statements not in you.C21K^talk 10:52, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Vijay Mallya is a Saraswat Brahmin and not ediga as u said. His grand father Srinivas mallya was a MP from Managalore. Again i say statements of being a proud kannadiga can be made, that does not change their ethinicity.188.50.116.116 (talk) 10:58, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

yes, his father is saraswat brahmin, and mother his ediga. look i am saying for last time, if people are identified themselves as "X", then we can list them in "X". if someone is proud of being tulu, you can add them in tuluva(if reliable source provided). C21K^talk 11:09, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

This is news here that Vijay Mallyas mother is Idiga!!!! I fact she is from a reputed Saraswat Brahmin business family from Bantwal in South canara. Don't write something out of ur imagination dude. And whats Tulu have to do in this discussion about Mallya? 188.50.116.116 (talk) 14:43, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Requesting to delete the names of Vijay Mallya, ravi Shastri and Anil Kumble from the list till we have proper evidence. Hope you will make the deletion as per wikipedia norms ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.50.116.116 (talk) 14:48, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Source to prove Rahul dravid as marathi. Please check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbuhPbIb8bo and http://gauravsabnis.blogspot.com/2005/03/aamcha-rahul.html I guess this is enough to delete his name from list of Kannadigas.188.48.22.78 (talk) 20:29, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Youtube, blogspot are not reliable ones in wikipedia. Hindu is reliable source, Mallya, Dravid are all accepted that they are proud of "being" Kannadigas. Mallya mother is ediga, if you doubt go and ask him. reliable sources are provided for all, anil kumble is kannadiga (see the hindu source in my edit summary, see what he said), Rahul dravid has mixed parentage, that is why he speaks both languages. i guess you don't anything about these personalities. my advice is take some time, study some basics about wikipedia, return back and improve the tulu-related articles. now after, don't expect any replies from me. all the best. C21K^talk 08:39, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Don;t advice me what to do. sorry for Kannadigas, I know there very little nationally and internationally prominent people of kannada origin, that is why they are now poaching people from other ethnicities. Ok if u wish, so be it. This will only reduce the accuracy of the Kannadiga article. Your source does not say any thing about their ethnicity only a statement. U had done the same with Veerendra Heggade article as well, if u remember. Happy Poaching188.48.22.78 (talk) 09:42, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Please don't keep adding certain non-ethnic Kannadiga to the list of Kannadigas. We need to keep in mind that Karnataka is a multi ethnic state and all people living in Karnataka are not ethnic Kannadigas.188.51.95.73 (talk) 07:59, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

The Tamil Plans

Once again Tamil intellectuals have shown their Konga (oblique) Buddhi in erecting a statue in Bengaluru . What are the implications of this: Lok Sabha polls giving Congress majority, so they can do nothing at centre.

Veerappan and Prabhakaran killed. So they are feeling disarmed. Already innocent Tamils under these so called Konga politicians have suffered in SL.

They need to drag their feet anywhere and everywhere now.

And when else when Karnataka HC judge Paul Daniel Dinakaran also speaks the same language . Judiciary at mockery here. He says Let us all be Indians. -I would like to question him . Where is the ideology of Tamil pride nation etc which people are so found of.A Tamilian wanting not to divide country on basis of religion region and caste!! well well. Good improvement . But you(Tamil) and Centre(Hindi) already have divided it over the years with language row sharing each other at times! Is it over for you with LTTE's fall. So now you advocate Indian ness. Shameless Judiciary also is following a barter system here. Thiruvalluvar bronze in Ulsoor = Sarvajna in a corner + pseudo classical status to Kannada by taking out Gandhi's plea in Chennai court.

Mr.Macaulay's child, We are proud to be Kannadiga and Kannadati than Indians/Hindus since India is referred for Columbus' Americans(wiki's own article) and Hindu is a persian word, and for your core information neither put us as Shudra ( Dravida/ Tamizha as you call) or Aryan. We don't entertain racism.

Examining other aspects Congress in Karnataka shows no opposition since they are united with JDS to get the full advantage of situation. Tommorrow if there is a Kaveri water dispute(since statues erected don't make a difference but if flowing water is diverted will) surely scapegoat CM will get dethroned and it will be Sonia Mania allover. One more government change and money will be shared.

The situation will be further fuelled since Maharashtra may come handy for them with support of Marathi Rajinikanth, in attacking Belgaum as money rules Mumbai and Congress alliance is almost a need. More Rajiv Gandhi bridges and statued to follow there too.

Just a small observation here. while majority of Karnataka cities cite Tamils living none of the cities of Tamil Nadu states Kannadiga in them(for eg. Chennai - I heard there is a Kannada sangha also there). I wonder the wikipedia is truly becoming the Aryan supporting the Dravidian here!! Badaga article has a Tamil lyric to it! Interesting.

Just to see the necessity of statues here. Who wanted statues when there are burning issues pending? And that too bronze statues! The CM will never visit the border district of old Mysuru but will go and shake hands with Karunanidhi . Aren't they pure politicians.

I wonder if the people wanting the statues have ever read anything regarding Thiruvalluvar or Sarvajna's viewpoints on erecting statues ?

Discussing these since these incidences are very relevant in this anglicised encyclopedia of Kannadiga. Because we need to even mentor the Anglic people Kali-K (talk) 18:55, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Mutually intelligible

Mutually intelligible is when a native speaker of a language can understand, partially or almost completely another language without any formal training or education in that language. For an example, Tulu speakers settled out side Karnataka though fluent speakers of Tulu cannot understand Kannada, Kodagu or Konkani without proper initiation to these languages. Its true the other way round also. Though there are certain common words in these languages, but the basic structure of these languages are quite different.188.48.22.78 (talk) 04:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Not true , Shivaram Karanth , Veerendra Heggade are some popular examples.Kali-K (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:27, 12 August 2009 (UTC).

If you are talking about emigrants it's a complex situation since they don't have environment to learn the language. Great example are those NRIs who can't, since they emigrate for jobs it's natural for them to learn culture native to that place.

Thats exactly what i am saying. Mutually intelligible is when even though they are not exposed to a language they can understand it by virtue of them knowing their native language. The example I cited of Tulu speakers who are not exposed to or initiated to Kannada, Kodagi or Konkani not being able to understand the said languages, indicates that languages are not mutually intelligible.188.48.22.78 (talk) 09:34, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Shivaram Karanth are Veerendra Heggade are examples of what??188.48.22.78 (talk) 09:35, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Photos in Infobox

I've added photos of six most notable personalities in infobox.

• Basavanna - founder of Lingayatism
• Anil Kumble - greatest bowler, only person to take 10 wickets in an innings
• Rajkumar - greatest actor of Indian cinema
• Purandara Dasa - father of karnatak music
• B. D. Jatti - former president and vice president of india and former cheifminister of karnataka
• Kuvempu - greatest poet of Kannada literature

we can still add 3 more photos ... can somebody choose three names from the below list??

Sree Sree Shivakumara Swamiji, Narayan Murthy, S. L. Bhyrappa, Gangubai Hanagal, Sudha Murthy, H. D. Deve Gowda, Girish Kasaravalli, A. N. Krishna Rao(anakru), Sarvajna, K. V. Subbanna, Gubbi Veeranna, C. N. R. Rao, M. Visvesvarayya, Nalvadi Krishnaraja Wadiyar or any other??

==Mislabelled Kannadigas==I I removed some names from this list (Kamat of Kamat Hotels, Vijay Mallya, Kamaladevi Chattopadhyay, Ammembal Subba Rao Pai-founder of Canara Bank) because they are not Kannadigas- they are Konkani-speaking Saraswat Brahmins. I know this for a fact because Kamaladevi Chattopadhyay is related to me, and Mallya, Pai and Kamat are Konkani last names. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.119.192.120 (talk) 03:40, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

This article is poltical propaganda

This article is propaganda and is neither based on facts or neutral observation.what is aryan dravidian fallacy theory.no one has claimed dravidians as separate race.dravidian is a name given to a particular group of languages.another important point robin uthappa is a kodava and girish karnad konkani why are they listed on kannadiga page.what is the real definition of kannadiga a person who natively speaks kannada or a person who is from karnataka?this is important because only 64% people in karnataka are native speakers of kannada.others do not speak kannada as mother tongue.and writing comments about LTTE and Jalli Kattu makes no sense in this article and more importantly this kannadiga written in english seems to hate the english language about how english is eating kannad.what an irony.Anusvara (talk) 07:06, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Is This kannadiga article Or i hate tamils article

Hi,i thought this article was about kannadiga people,the native speakers of kannada.but why make so many refrences to tamils and their culture also yakshagana has it's origins among the tulu speaking people of coastal karnataka and kerala.it is not a kannadiga invention.how many yakshagana troops are there in north karnataka, none.also why is this aticle disputing that bharatnatyam is of tamil origin.everyone knows bharatnatyam has it's origins in tamil nadu but now it has become pan indian.this article needs serious editing or rename this article as I Hate Tamils ,malayalis,Tuluvas and telugus and all indians except kannadiga .Th Tuluva dynasty is Tulu not kannada.This article also poaches from other ethnicities.Also Halegannada is closer to Tulu and tamil then it is to modern kannada.the article does not mention that too.Halmidi inscriptions are not in what is present kannada.it is in a very different language.Was this article written by K.R.V.Muskeeter8 (talk) 06:38, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Surnames

• Pai = Pati
• Kamat = Karmata
• Rao = Raaya
• Kannada = Kanarese
• Hegde = Heggade = Hiriya Gowda

These are some of anglicised forms of Kannada which is to be taken for the totality and not only modern kannada. So for those POLITICAL editors who like to call Tamils as Lankans/Malays/Singapore/Japanese/Australians sometimes , Dravidians sometimes , superlative Brahmins sometimes , separated but foremost indigeneous people of world sometimes and Blacks sometimes and many other things manytimes should refrain themselves from removing names on basis of surnames of Kannada which engulfs ancient Tamil non politically. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.92.215 (talk) 18:08, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Good assumptions,Ha HA HA... The people whom you have added back are Konkani and Tuluvas, not tamil as u mentioned. Please refrain from making baseless statement. veerendra Heggade's ethnicity has been discusses and decided. Please see Veerendra Heggade page.188.52.119.99 (talk) 16:57, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Who said they are Tamils? The editors are Political Tamils who would remove just to spread vandalism. And why are you deciding Veerendra Heggade's ethnicity. First of all you call anglicisation as assumption and secondly you decide who is what. You are really a Godly creature. I think you are Aryan white European / central Asian , Strong in Vedas and all virtues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.166.155.53 (talk) 16:25, 15 September 2009 (UTC)