Talk:Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2020/Archive 1

Archive 1

Hungary

Which source states about a possible Hungarian broadcast?? EuroFan98 (talk) 16:50, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

None of them, apparently. I've removed the section about Hungary. dummelaksen (talk) 17:21, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Imgur

How can Imgur be a reliable source? I mean, people share lots of things on Imgur, and i don't always trust tall stories from that site. I even deleted one section about Slovakia because they are still discussing. How can they have decided that quick? EuroFan98 (talk) 19:23, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

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Albania, Ireland and Spain with an interest in hosting

I may have missed that information, but even if I did, where are the sources of that information? Of these three, only i know that the head of the delegation said that the country is interested in the organizer IF WIN.

Albania and Ireland hasn't said anything about hosting just yet EuroFan98 (talk) 11:01, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

The show will be hosted in Poland Wikiuserbam (talk) 17:47, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

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Blog Eurofestivales...

Can blog Eurofestivales be used as a reliable source for the confirmation of participating countries? I mean, other Eurovision respetable media such as Eurovoix sometimes use Eurofestivales and other blogs as sources. And in other years', Eurofestivales' confirmed countries have always been in the confirmed countries official list released by the EBU. So, are we allowed to use the blog as a reliable source? I know I am. Marcecarjordan (talk) 06:10, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

It has no listed authors, no discernible editorial policy, and whether the authors are at least somewhat experienced in a journalistic field is unknown since, well, they are not listed. All of these are red flags four our reliable sources policy. Additionally, it is found on Blogspot and would thus most likely fail WP:SELFPUB. We should not consider it to be a reliable source for our purposes (as an encyclopedia). If reliable outlets cite them, that's on them; we would still just cite the reliable one and possibly give attribution to the blog, although blogs rarely have information exclusive to them. Then again, most Eurovision fan blogs fall under this scheme, being fan blogs and all. Regards, IceWelder [✉] 06:53, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Why fully protect the page?

Why did the protecting admin fully protect the page? How many instances of vandalism have there been for this page? GlobBETT ☎️ 🖋 13:41, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

It hasn't been protected for that reason; it's been protected because (at least) two editors can't come to an agreement and are repeatedly reverting each other. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:19, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Disruptive editing against the status quo ("do not add countries to the infobox based on provisional statements") with complete disregard of the active consensus and the very comments these editors were removing, coupled with the reverts (by four separate users) that followed these edits, were deemed a content dispute. Therefore, the page was not semi-protected (as should be the case for disruptive editing), but fully protected. IceWelder [✉] 14:55, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Australia is not an Active EBU member

Due to the protection, I was unable to edit this, but in "Other countries" Australia is currently under the title "Active EBU members". If someone could please fix this, that'd be great. Aris Odi ❯❯❯ talk 03:36, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

I've submitted an edit request here. dummelaksen (talk • contribs) 13:01, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you Aris Odi ❯❯❯ talk 14:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Italy's participation

Italy is on the list of provisional participants, with the source being an undated Instagram story post that is no longer online. However, on 21 July, Eurovoix has contacted broadcaster RAI who have confirmed that they have not yet made a decision on Italy's participation at JESC 2020. Therefore, it seems that Italy should no longer be included on the list of provisional participants. 21:25, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

References

Protected edit request on 15 July 2020

Change:

Active EBU members

• Australia – In July 2020, Australian broadcaster SBS announced that they would not participate in the 2020 contest due to COVID-19 restrictions and concerns.
• Bulgaria – ...

to:

Active EBU members

• Bulgaria – ...

Associate EBU members

• Australia – In July 2020, Australian broadcaster SBS announced that they would not participate in the 2020 contest due to COVID-19 restrictions and concerns.

As the Australian broadcaster, SBS, is not an active EBU member, but an associate member. Request submitted after the error was pointed out on the talk page by User:Aris Odi. dummelaksen (talk • contribs) 12:59, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

 Not done @Dummelaksen: this page is no longer protected, you may edit directly. — xaosflux ^Talk 18:14, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done ― Ætoms ^[talk] 18:26, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

References

Protected edit request on 18 July 2020

Could you write in the Commentators and spokesperson section

• Netherlands – TBA (NPO Zapp)

The Junior Eurovision website announced, in an article about Dutch national final, that the contest in the Netherlands will be broadcast by NPO ZApp https://junioreurovision.tv/story/introducing-unity-janae-and-jacky-robin-and-t-square

Thanks --Michele1999 (talk) 10:25, 18 July 2020 (UTC) Michele1999 (talk) 10:25, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

 Not done @Michele1999: this page is no longer protected, you may edit directly. — xaosflux ^Talk 18:14, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done ― Ætoms ^[talk] 18:26, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 18 July 2020

Please add:

Active EBU members

• Greece – ...
• Iceland – In December 2019, the Icelandic Head of Delegation for the Eurovision Song Contest Felix Bergsson revealed that no decision had yet been made regarding a potential debut in the contest.
• North Macedonia – ...
• Scotland – ...
• Sweden – In January 2020, Head of SVT Barn Safa Safiyari stated that Sveriges Television (SVT) currently has no plans to return to the contest, having concluded that it "does not fit the mix we want on our content". Nonetheless, the broadcaster does not rule out participation in the future. Sweden last participated in 2014.
• Wales – ...

Thanks! ― Ætoms ^[talk] 15:33, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

 Not done @Ætoms: this page is no longer protected, you may edit directly. — xaosflux ^Talk 18:14, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done ― Ætoms ^[talk] 18:26, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

References

The infobox and the addition of returning / withdrawing / debuting countries

For some reason, the status quo (which seems holy) on these pages is that any returning, debuting and/or withdrawing countries shall not be added to the infobox until the EBU releases the official list of participating countries. To my understanding, this is an issue that has caused disparity between users before. Personally, I don't see why countries such as Germany, who will be debuting this upcoming edition, cannot be added to the infobox until the EBU releases its official list. The German broadcaster, NDR, has officially confirmed its participation on the German Eurovision website [1], even launching its selection process. In reality, only the most extreme scenarios (the German broadcaster suddenly going bankrupt, natural disasters striking Germany, or the whole contest being canceled because of a massive surge in COVID cases) might prevent Germany from ending up on EBU's official list of participants. However, these are all (once again: extreme) reasons which might see Germany pull out last-minute, even after they were on EBU's official list.

Moreover, by confirming Germany's participation on the official Junior Eurovision website [2], the EBU already confirmed Germany's participation. It seems quite odd to have to wait until the EBU releases its official list, despite the Junior Eurovision website, being upheld by the EBU itself, reporting Germany's participation.

This leaves me with several questions. First, why is the current policy of waiting on the EBU's list in place? I can only imagine that with these confirmations, Germany is a 100% debutant, and should rightfully receive a place in the infobox as such. Secondly, why can't this policy be changed? It seems that by far I'm not the only one who wishes to add these countries to the infobox. Yet, these edits will get reverted because someone, at some point in time, decided to wait on the EBU list. Lastly, what is the problem with countries being added 'prematurely' (with regard to the current policy in place) to the infobox? It's a question I've yet to see being answered, despite people blindly following the policy. JKOkay (talk) 17:42, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree with you, if Germany has been officially confirmed as a debutant, even through the official Junior Eurovision website, why should we wait until the EBU adds a full list of countries? This is confusing, random viewers of the article might think that Germany is not participating. In my opinion, Wikipedia is a place of proven information, not a place of uncertainty - because the country is supposedly on the list of participants, but in the infobox everything suggests that it's not. I believe that this change made by one user will lead to more damage than good things. I support and think we should go back to placing countries in the infobox before the official list of countries! Szyign (talk) 17:52, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

• Since I was asked to present my points here and was just pinged:

1. It is misleading. All statements before the confirmation through the EBU are provisional. The infobox does not make this clear, rather presents information as definitive. This violates WP:CRYSTAL. For the same reasons, it is not encyclopedic.
2. It is unnecessary additional maintenance. This information changes weekly, and it requires duplicated additions (which many editors frequently forget to do one of) every single time.

It has not helped that many editors were being disruptive about this. As JKOkay notes below, I have dropped all Eurovision pages (including this one) from my watchlist because maintaining Eurovision articles is far too frequently dealing with large quantities of disruptive editing, including much related to this issue. A comment was in place but is frequently ignored. Hence, I most likely won't be around to maintain whatever consensus there will be. Regards, IceWelder [✉] 19:07, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

I'm aware you've indicated that you'll probably not be around for any consensus, yet I'll still reply to your arguments.

1. I disagree on statements being provisional. If the relevant broadcaster, in this case the German one, NDR, reports its debut, in my opinion, that is the point it is already safe to add to the infobox. That is when the information is not provisional, they've announced their participation. Moreover, if that same news gets shared on the official Junior Eurovision website, maintained by the EBU, the argument is even stronger.
2. "This information changes weekly" is a big exaggeration. The amount of times countries indicated to participate, but yet pulled out at the last second, in the last 10 years, for both the Eurovision as the Junior Eurovision Song Contest, can be counted on one hand. Moreover, each year there are only a handful of withdrawing, debuting, and returning countries combined. Thus, it is by far information that changes weekly.

Moreover, I have repeatedly asked you to link previous discussions where, as you claimed, a consensus was reached, as I was not able to find those discussions when browsing several talk pages. You still have not pulled through. Some digging saw the first note on waiting for the EBU list being placed by you on the 2021 Eurovision page [3]. As other, frequent editors have told me, the general consensus on the Eurovision Wikipedia project was to keep editing the infobox as new, confirmed information comes to light. This contradicts with the general consensus you claim, which you keep failing to link, despite me asking numerous times. Therefore, in case you'll still decide to reply, could you please link this consensus? JKOkay (talk) 19:21, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

I initially installed the note boldly in March, given the WP:CRYSTAL precedent. Editors that know this guideline did not challenge, rather supported, the change. Others made further amendments. The circumstances would indicate a WP:EDITCONSENSUS. To be fair, though, I would be in the wrong under WP:BRD with the disagreeing editors.

The change was discussed with a few editors at least once, but I've so far been unable to recover where this went down, given that it has been months since then. Unless I stumble over it by chance, I probably won't be able to link it, sorry. Speaking of this, though, would you be able to ping the editors who informed you about another consensus? Their input would be valuable here, as they seem to know other things than I do. Also pinging @Dummelaksen as I mentioned one of their edits.

Regarding provisionality, the EBU is the only entity the can enable a broadcaster to participate. A broadcaster announcing its intent to participate most likely means that it has submitted a participation application to the EBU. Yes, the usually results in the country taking part, but this is not granted, thus we should not handle it that way (possibly falls under WP:OR). That countries withdraw their application (or announce their non-participation later on without having set an application) is just a bonus.

The number of countries participating in a contest would change every time a broadcaster announces its intent. Given that roughly 40 countries participate in the ESC, a new announcement would appear (on average) every 1.3 weeks. At times, this number was also spelled out once more in the lead, so that it would have to be maintained three times with every new announcement (or >120 times in total). So of course, the note mostly affects ESCs, but should be consistent with JESCs.

Regards, IceWelder [✉] 13:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for linking the Wiki guidelines on several topics, it's actually really informative for me and it sheds some new light on why you installed these guidelines in the first place. That being said, I'll ask the editor that told me about the general consensus on editing the infobox as new information comes to light if he/she can elaborate on it.

I understand the point you are trying to make regarding provisionality, but in my opinion it's too nitpickery (if I may say so). Take the German participation as an example. The EBU themselves have confirmed on the Junior Eurovision website that Germany will (not: will intend to) participate. Yes, as I have stated before, Germany might pull out at the last minute because of force majeure, as any other country might, but that's just a side note here. In my opinion, not enough to wait until the EBU releases the list. Moreover, I don't understand why the EBU list is the holy guideline in this discussion. There have been instances of countries withdrawing even after the EBU releases the list of participants. Should we then wait until that country is physically present on stage, singing their song on live broadcasting until we add it to the infobox?

Regarding the changing information in the infobox, I don't see why it should be an issue. As you've seen on the numerous edits which have forced a lock on the page, users are willing to change this when new information comes to light. In the same way, you don't see statistics on the 2019-20 Premier League season being added after the season has concluded, but yet being updated after each match. I don't hear users complain about constantly having to do that. And if you feel such an annoyance to change the number of participating countries in the infobox on average once a week, which is given that everyone forgets to do it, maybe it's better to not maintain Eurovision pages anymore. JKOkay (talk) 16:31, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Note: sometimes there are listings of "confirmed countries" in Wikipedia in the period when the EBU is not even accepting confirmations. For adult Eurovision, the period when countries can confirm their participation opens only in July, when EBU releases the new rules and dispatches it to the countries. It is highly speculative to have any confirmed countries before the rules are ready: they may include some important changes, or may include new ways of entrance fee calculation. Moreower, there is a specific deadline when calculated fees are dispatched to the countries, and this also may lead to a withdrawal.

Some countries may announce their preselections for the next year early, it does not mean they are confirmed to take part. Confirmation technically is an e-mail sent by HoD of a country to the EBU. Since we do not have access to the flow of those e-mails (unless in some future EBU installs a confirmation ticket or smth on their website) - it is only the EBU itself which can "confirm" participation of any country - and they do so by publishing their list (yes, the list may change, but it's official only when a change is announced by EBU).

For any Eurovision competition, I would suggest to keep infobox completely intact before EBU releases official list of participating countries, at the same time maintaining within the article a list of countries which have expressed their intent to participate. I think it is important that highly speculative lists do not appear in the infobox or the number of "confirmed countries" is not mentioned anywhere in the article before it is made official, as this number is nothing but a mere speculation (we do not have any information of exactly how many countries did actually officially submit the application. Alexeyus (talk) 10:43, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

But Germany, Australia and Wales have confirmed your position about 2020 junior eurovision, so your name should be in the infobox --Michele1999 (talk) 10:19, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

First thing, Australia should be listed under "Associate EBU members" not active because Australia is not a full member of the EBU. The respective reference groups of each Eurovision event have the ability to invite other countries than just full members. Only full members are guaranteed the ability to participate in Eurovision events. Second, the infobox should remain empty of countries until an official list is supplied by the EBU and the host broadcaster. The reason is provisional conformation can change due to various circumstances. In 99% of cases by the time the EBU releases the official list it rarely changes unless there is an extenuating circumstances beyond the broadcaster's control. With Junior Eurovision some countries don't confirm participation until the list is announced. Currently 12 countries and the host country have expressed provisional participation however they could change their participation at any moment due to COVID-19. With Junior Eurovision there have been countries that said they won't participate then end up on the list of confirmed countries. I don't understand or see the rush to put information in the infobox based on provisional conformations. The only country I would even put in that infobox right now is Germany because there was an official post on the Junior Eurovision website. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 05:55, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

In re to JKOkay: Yes, I am a bit nitpicky about this, but it is probably in the best interest of an encyclopedia, given the relevant guidelines. The Premier League comparison is outside my scope and knowledge, so I can't say all to much about it. I will assume that there is a wholly different kind of editors for it, so WP:OSE applies, and a local consensus should be reached for this issue with the local community (if possible). Lastly, I'd like to add that the Eurovision websites are run by editorial teams controlled by but disjoint from the EBU governing body. There has been fighting in the past over the logo of the first contest used on the website, as it was made using a font that would not exist for a few more decades after the contest itself took place. On reporting in particular, I recall how they announced that Damir Kedžo would participate for Croatia in the ESC 2021, only to find out later that this was false and silently retract the statement. Most of the information on these sites is correct, but I highly doubt that they have EBU insider information, they just get a note passed down once in a while. I realize I probably won't be able to sway anyone's existing opinion, so I'll leave it at that. Hopefully, a proper consensus can come out of this discussion. In case you need further information from me or open an RfC on the issue, please ping me. Regards, IceWelder [✉] 06:56, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree with many of the arguments by IceWelder and Alucard. The infobox is supposed to be a quick summary of the article. Even if we only include the current "confirmed" debuts, withdrawals, and non-participations, the information is presented in a way that makes the reader think these are the only countries doing that this year. The infobox does not have an "as of" field or anything like that (and it shouldn't). For a reader quickly going through pages, they might come to the conclusion that only Germany debuted in 2020 for example. Perhaps that will end up being true, but that is chance. As an encyclopedia, we need to be sure about things before we add them and they information needs to be presented without the need for interpretation. In terms of policy, I believe these infobox additions violate WP:CRYSTAL. Grk1011 (talk) 14:08, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

It might be a bit late but since I was pinged, I'll just say that I agree we should wait until the final list of participants is released.  dummelaksen  (talk • contribs) 17:32, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

@SanderCN: forgive me but who's "we"? I may have read the room wrong but it's been more than a week since anything substantial regarding the infobox was said on the talk page. So I didn't decide to remove the countries "out of nowhere". I thought a consensus had been established, but if I was wrong feel free to discuss it.  dummelaksen  (talk • contribs) 14:10, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello there! During the full protection we obviously had this big talk in which people obviously were in favour and against the infobox, as no census was officially reached we continued with the infobox as was the case with the census used before. The infobox only being edited when the official preliminary list was announced happened on the Eurovision 2021 page without any discussing by IceWelder, so in that case the old census stays intact. And the also answer the WE questions you had on a previous undo, this person is also referring to people on the Unofficial Eurovision Discord these people are not active on Wikipedia but still voice their opinion. These people may not be editors but still read the wiki and they expected an infobox with information which has always been prior to ESC 2021. SanderCN (talk) 14:25, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

@SanderCN: My understanding was that the infobox stayed intact until today because the discussion was ongoing, to leave a little time before a consensus was assumed in case someone else wanted to add something. I wasn't the one who initially assumed consensus either, it was this edit by Grk1011 from earlier today. I won't remove any countries from the infobox for a little while because of WP:BRD, and clearly the discussion is still open. People in the Unofficial Eurovision Discord server can make Wikipedia accounts and come discuss it here if they disagree. Otherwise what use is that? I'm not in the discord server anymore, and anyone else who isn't can't see what they have to say.  dummelaksen  (talk • contribs) 14:44, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Okay, after having read through the entire discussion, it seems to me that it revolves mostly around whether or not it's WP:CRYSTAL. However, the very first sentence of that section of the guidelines reads: "Wikipedia is not a collection of unverifiable speculation or presumptions." As all the debuting/withdrawing countries have references to verifiable sources, doesn't that mean that WP:CRYSTAL doesn't apply here? (Just asking, I'm not sure either.) JochemvanHees (talk) 21:04, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Good question. I think everyone can agree that these countries have provisionally confirmed their (non)participation, and that that is verifiable, but what I don't agree with is that the infobox should reflect provisional information so early in the planning phase. It's definitely useful information to say that Germany is expected to debut, etc., but as Grk1011 pointed out, the infobox is a quick summary of the article, and it does more harm than it's worth to put Germany and the like in the infobox and present it as certain. So maybe it isn't WP:CRYSTAL in the purest sense, but it doesn't improve the encyclopaedia in my opinion.  dummelaksen  (talk • contribs) 01:54, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I thought it was clear that there was a consensus to remove this information from the Infobox (based on merits, not just number of people, etc). There had been no further discussion on the matter for almost a week. When Dummelaksen commented days later and also supported the removal, I felt that this consensus was then solidified, so I made the edit to the article. To clarify my position, it's not about sourcing each individual country, "Germany will debut". The source you would need for inclusion of this type of information in the Infobox is "these are the debuting countries", and "these are the non-participating countries". To use multiple sources to support a summary like this is WP:SYNTHESIS and misleading. Grk1011 (talk) 15:33, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Good point, I agree that it can be misleading, particularly to readers who aren't long-time Eurofans and aren't used to countries confirming their participation one by one. Maybe adding a "(provisional)" note or something could help? JochemvanHees (talk) 22:08, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Consensus

I recently removed the debuting/non-returning countries from the infobox again, because I believed we had reached consensus in the discussion above. However, it was recently reverted again by an unregistered user. I left a message on their talk page asking for an explanation, otherwise I'll remove it again. You can click the edit button on this section to discuss. JochemvanHees (talk) 12:36, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Protection

I have protected this page from editing due to the long term edit-war over the infobox from a large number of editors. Please discuss your issues here based on Wikipedia's core policies particularly verifiability to reliable sources. The protection will stand until a consensus forms here. Woody (talk) 18:03, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

I have invited IceWelder, the main advocate on waiting to add countries to the infobox until the EBU releases the list of participating countries, to the discussion. Unfortunately, as he indicates on his own talk page, he thinks the discussion is not worth it and has removed all relevant Eurovision pages from his watchlist, thereby saying we could have it 'our way'. Honestly, I was just looking for a fruitful discussion on the topic, as I have never seen it properly discussed somewhere else, and I'm actually quite baffled and saddened he took this route. JKOkay (talk) 18:54, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Can you please delete the protection of the page Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2020? Malta confirmed its partecipation to the JESC 2020 and we should write in the "Provisional list of participating countries" section!!!

https://eurovoix.com/2020/07/22/malta-junior-eurovision-2020-participation-confirmed/ Thanks --Michele1999 (talk) 16:41, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Edit requests, please?

Are any of the new edits gonna be answered?

Right now, there's a rumour about the UK returning to the contest and changing Australia's status as an associated EBU member. Since this is the time around the list gets released (last year list was released on July 18th), news and information cannot wait until the 22th.

The page needs to be updated, keep it protected, but make the edits.

--Marcecarjordan (talk) 07:18, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree they need to be answered, but where are your sources for these "rumours" about the UK returning to the contest and changing Australia's status as an associated EBU member? I highly doubt that Australia's status an associate member would change... Aris Odi ❯❯❯ talk 04:59, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

The UK's rumour is right now on one somewhat big Eurofan website not related to blogspot (ESCplus) and on blogs and social media. What I meant about Australia is that is currently under the "Active EBU members" tag when it should be under "Active Associate EBU members". Also today we have the information that Portugal is about to confirm its participation within the next days. So, yeah, since it's around this time the list gets published, there is gonna be so many news that keeping the page protected is ridiculous. Marcecarjordan (talk) 02:53, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Oh ok, I get you, sorry for the confusion. Aris Odi ❯❯❯ talk 11:11, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

•  Administrator note this page is no longer protected and may be edited directly. — xaosflux ^Talk 18:14, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

NRK confirmed its non-participation many weeks ago, and even though this is mentioned in the article, the map does not reflect that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.63.102.163 (talk) 22:50, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

This is because TV 2 is also an active EBU member in Norway, and could still participate.  dummelaksen  (talk • contribs) 23:01, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Uk Participation?

Will the Uk actually go to Junior Eurovision this year? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eurovision1323 (talk • contribs) 08:45, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

@Eurovision1323: reminder that the talk page is for discussing edits for the article, not for discussing Junior Eurovision 2020 in general.

To answer your question, we can't just say what will happen without a reliable source, and there aren't any reliable sources at the moment that say the UK will or will not participate.  dummelaksen  (talk • contribs) 08:58, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Germany partecipation

Could you please write Germany on the template Infobox song contest of the page Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2020? Germany has announced the name of the song and the artist that represent the country to Jesc 2020. Please --Michele1999 (talk) 11:46, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: The reasons for not including Germany in the infobox still hold. The EBU still hasn't released the final list of participants.  dummelaksen  (talk • contribs) 11:59, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Ukraine HAVE NOT selected their Junior Eurovision 2020 entry as of 7 September

Unlike some media have reported, Ukraine are not confirmed to have selected their 2020 Junior Eurovision Song Contest entry yet.

Eurovoix first reported that the jury votes had been revealed, giving the maximum score to Oleksandr Balabanov — which would mathematically make him Ukraine’s representative as the televote only counts as an extra jury vote; it is not a 50/50 vote.

While the Eurovoix article does not cite any sources (main reason why I believe Eurovoix should not be treated as a reliable source on the Eurovision WikiProject anymore and why this issue should be brought up later for further discussion; it is not the first time they fail to cite sources or to proofread their articles), it appears that their info about the jury votes is based off a series of Instagram Stories posted on the official account of the national selection @suspilne.eurovision where a few people reveal who their favorite act is, with the majority of votes being awarded to Oleksandr Balabanov.

However, what Eurovoix failed to recognize is that none of those people are from the actual jury even though the list of jurors is on the article itself, directly below the fake results. Therefore, these results are not binding and they do not reveal anything regarding Ukraine’s JESC 2020 entry, having to wait until September 12 for the official reveal. TaylorSnail (talk) 21:26, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

@TaylorSnail: Looking at the Instagram story, while there are videos of random people supporting their favourite act, there are videos from Timur Miroshnychenko, Larisa Klyuyevska, Tara Stopolia, Jamala and Alina Pash (the other jurors may have been from more than 24 hours ago). I'm also not sure if Wikipedia editors looking at the Instagram story and deducing what the intent was is a violation of WP:SYNTHESIS.

That said, I do agree that it's too soon to include the Ukrainian entry and if there's any uncertainty about the Eurovoix article then we can just wait until 12 September.  dummelaksen  (talk • contribs) 08:19, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Returning countries field

What's the logic for including the "returning countries" field in the infobox when there aren't any returning countries? It makes sense to me to just leave it blank, as there not being any returning countries is not notable in my opinion. We don't have to include details on everything that didn't happen.  dummelaksen  (talk • contribs) 14:36, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with specifying that no countries are returning. Including "None" gives, in my opinion, a clear and concise view of the debuting, returning, and non-returning countries. I agree with you on the fact that it's not necessary to add details on everything that didn't happen, though I'm in favor of adding "None" in the infobox as all three elements in the composition of countries for the event will be addressed. JKOkay (talk) 09:07, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

I'm kind of neutral on this. I personally think it's unnecessary to include the word "None" in this case. But you can imagine there being an edition in which the participants list is exactly the same as last year. If we don't put the word "None" in the infobox, then the participants section of the infobox will only contain the number of entries, and it will appear to the reader that this infobox doesn't list any information about whether or not countries have left or joined. So in this specific situation, I do believe that the word is necessary. ―JochemvanHees (talk) 16:33, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Map edit

Can you colour Malta in green, please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.164.46.76 (talk) 16:42, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

It looks like it has already been done. Those edits normally take some time because someone has to edit File:JESC 2020 Map.svg and reupload it. I personally don't know how to edit SVG files. ―JochemvanHees (talk) 20:36, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

WHERE IS ARMENIA?

WHY IS ARMENIA NOT PARTICIPATING IN JESC 2020?! CAN YOU TELL ME PLEASE! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.37.19.213 (talk) 13:49, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Georgia confirmation

@Eurovision1323: It is not helpful to keep undoing without reading other people's edit summaries. The Ranina final does not define who goes to JESC, and the album is as much confirmation as we're gonna get. Wikipedia also does not have to mirror the participants page on Junioreurovision.tv; we simply list the confirmed facts. ―JochemvanHees (talk) 12:57, 12 November 2020 (UTC)