Talk:June 2021 North American storm complex

This article was nominated for deletion on 3 July 2022. The result of the discussion was weak keep.

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 26 March 2022 by reviewer Herpetogenesis (talk · contribs).

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Notability

@TornadoLGS, ChessEric, and TropicalAnalystwx13: Is this notable enough for an article? The tornado event most certainly is not, and the flooding aspect of this article only covers one line. The title is also horrid no matter whether "June 2021" is in the front or at the end. If a couple flooding deaths are grounds for an article, then we have a lot more articles to make all over the country. United States Man (talk) 00:06, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I was honestly thinking the same thing. It would be nice if we could find more information on it because it really should not even be here with the way it is now. I left it alone because I don't like to initialize conversation like this so I'm glad you bought it up. ChessEric (talk · contribs) 00:20, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As it stands now, the article is not notable enough, however, the article's scope needs to be expanded because this same storm system, specifically, the hailstorm (June 17-18) with this system, caused $1.8 billion in damage per NOAA's Billion-Dollar Weather and Climate Disasters list. Elijahandskip (talk) 00:23, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If there is enough coverage of the hailstorm to significantly expand it, and we could expand on the flooding aspect, this could be salvageable. But otherwise I agrre that this was not notable, and it's kind of a mess as it is. TornadoLGS (talk) 01:21, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reason for deletion

This should be deleted due to poor notability. Tornado outbreak is well below notable and floods also arent really notable, plus is only one line. Any salvageable content can go to Tornadoes of 2021#June 18-19, but I doubt even that is needed. 47.23.40.14 (talk) 22:23, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You should read the section above this one. As it stands, the article doesn't show the notability of the event, however, as stated above, the event is notable enough for an article. The article just needs a lot of improvements, not deletion. Elijahandskip (talk) 23:42, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A $1.8 billion hailstorm isn’t gonna cut it. It needs a lot more sources reporting on the event to be notable, of which I can’t find any. 75.99.8.58 (talk) 15:48, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, yes it will. With the article being expanded and changed to focus on the hailstorm, it will make it notable. The event had tons of news articles published about it just after the event happened as well. Elijahandskip (talk) 16:05, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

”Just after the event” see WP:ROUTINE, WP:LASTING, WP:109PAPERS. 75.99.8.58 (talk) 16:13, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just pointing something out: Without the hailstorm aspect being included, this already has 21 sources. It passed through AfC as well. Once the hailstorm is included, there is 0 notability concerns. Elijahandskip (talk) 16:18, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Of the 21 references, 8 of them are literally reports of the tornadoes that touch down, and a few others are WP:ROUTINE storm recaps. Also at least one of the references should be from immediately after. Elijahandskip, please don’t ignore policies like WP:NOTNEWS. 75.99.8.58 (talk) 16:26, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion discussion created. WikiVirusC^(talk) 16:28, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 3 December 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. No response to opposition or further engagement from original nom. (non-admin closure) Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 20:39, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Midwestern U.S. floods and tornado outbreak of June 2021 → June 2021 North American storm cooled – The title right now is awful. This is the only solution. 143.170.105.162 (talk) 18:06, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose — The title does need to be changed because of the $1.8 billion hailstorm, but for sure not to “storm cooled”. XD Elijahandskip (talk) 18:19, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Elijahandskip: I think it’s pretty clear they meant “storm complex”. Would you support a change to that?47.19.209.230 (talk) 18:26, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Elijahandskip: At least one of these, if not both, is a likely sock of Andrew5, so this should just be ignored. United States Man (talk) 22:44, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 24 December 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 19:47, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Midwestern U.S. floods and tornado outbreak of June 2021 → June 2021 North American storm complex – Title miserably fails WP:TTLE in many ways. I double checked to make sure it was actually the correct title. 12.206.84.79 (talk) 23:25, 24 December 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. echidnaLives - talk - edits 06:10, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: Relisting due to no participation echidnaLives - talk - edits 06:10, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support — The new name sounds like the best case situation for this article. Elijahandskip (talk) 06:41, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Naming conventions per Wikipedia:WikiProject Disaster management/Naming (article titles should be <<year>> <<place>> <<event>>) RandomInfinity17 (talk) 20:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Merge

As is, all are in agreement to merge, though exactly where, there is no unanimous agreement. Though only two non-IP ~~four~~ editors weighed in here, I note that previous notability concerns were brought up by at least four non-IP ~~five~~ other editors, and the past deletion discussion result was "weak keep". I would urge Tails Wx and TheAustinMan to agree on a merge target and then be BOLD in implementing the merge. starship .paint (RUN) 14:40, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum: per User:WeatherWriter below, it is reasonable to suspect all of the IPs of being socks of one LTA. In that case, Weather of 2021 is the recommended merge target. Let's see if that works out. starship .paint (RUN) 09:13, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I am proposing a merge back into Tornadoes of 2021 as it was for two months before the article was brought back as the merge was undiscissed. The article fails WP:SUSTAINED. 108.58.71.234 (talk) 16:32, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support merge. The article doesn't just fail WP:NSUSTAINED, it literally doesn't merit an article, as it can be noted in Tornadoes of 2021#June 18 and I highly doubt the flood and hail impacts are notable enough for an article to be created. Thus, with the combination of the article relying excessively on primary sources and lacking secondary sources, it fails WP:GNG. And yes, I had originally boldly blank-and-redirected the article prior here, given that it failed the notability guidelines above. ~ Tails Wx (🐾, me!) 16:38, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge... but where? – This particular event lacks sustained coverage or coverage of any lasting effects, so a merge seems appropriate. However, is Tornadoes of 2021 the best target for such a merge? The tornadoes were evidently not the most consequential part of this storm, but the aggregate US$1.9 billion in damage is rather impressive. Is there a general page regarding severe weather in 2021, perhaps Weather of 2021 or something more tailored, that might serve information about these non-tornadic effects more appropriately? –TheAustinMan^{(Talk ⬩ Edits)} 22:41, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tornado articles do sometimes mention non-tornadic impacts, so it should be fine. 208.253.89.50 (talk) 23:25, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think Weather of 2021#June would be a good merge target, the staggering $1.9 billion not resulting from tornadoes is quite impressive! Not only this, but the event's also noted in NOAA's billion-dollar disasters, so I won't be opposed to a merge to Weather of 2021#June, but the other impacts could also be worth a mention in Tornadoes of 2021#June 18. ~ Tails Wx (🐾, me!) 02:48, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Consensus discussion

@Starship.paint: — I’m not necessarily challenging your decision, but the consensus is, in reality, only two valid editors (Tails Wx and The Austin Man). Also, the discussion was opened (almost certainly) by a DUCK LTA. 208.253.89.50 Is a confirmed Andrew5 SOCK account & Andrew 5 has wanted this article deleted/merged in the past. In the Reason for deletion section above, 47.23.40.14 (opener) & 75.99.8.58 were blocked Andrew5 socks. 108.58.71.234 was only active on February 10th (basically on this article) & they fit perfectly for WP:LTA/A5, so chances are that is a DUCK Sock as well. I ain’t taking it to SPI since SPI Andrew5 IPs only are DUCKED blocked if they are active recently. You might want to amend your closing statement since this discussion was confirmed tainted by Andrew5 + a second suspected tainting. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 15:36, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @WeatherWriter: - updated close, thank you for informing me, I was not aware of all of these. starship .paint (RUN) 09:13, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]