Talk:Judah P. Benjamin

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Judah P. Benjamin is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 30, 2015.

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Date	Process	Result
June 28, 2014	Featured article candidate	Promoted
June 21, 2014	Peer review	Reviewed

Current status: Featured article

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Acting president

Is there any contemporary evidence that Benjamin was ever acting president? The statement that "Evans suggests that Benjamin's actions made him the Confederacy's acting president" seems totally implausible. Chairing a cabinet meeting does not make one acting president.Royalcourtier (talk) 04:33, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's being presented as the opinion of the writer of the source, Evans. But it seems plausible enough. With the VP, Stephens, not trusted by Davis (and the VP as cabinet member is definitely 20th century), Benjamin was the senior Executive Branch official and Davis was in Tennessee and not fully in touch all the time. The fact remains he did kick out the British consuls, which is a significant policy change, before Davis knew. And, someone's got to run the war--Wehwalt (talk) 06:17, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Was David Levy (Yulee) or Judah Benjamin the first Jew elected to the U.S. Senate?

First, it appears that David Levy (Yulee) converted from Judaism to Christianity after he began serving in the U.S. Senate. He became a Senator in 1845 and converted to Christianity in 1846 when he married Nannie C. Wickliffe, who was Christian, and changed his name adding "Yulee" as a surname. This would make Judah Benjamin the second Jew to serve in the U.S. Senate, not the first. This makes sense and today converting from Religion X to Religion Y in America upon the request (or demand) of a soon-to-be spouse remains a very common reason for converting -- offering an inconclusive but rational explanation for this timing. A footnote on Yulee's Wikipedia page says, "It is not clear if Yulee converted before his marriage to Nancy Christian Wickliffe or on his deathbed. Nor is the documentary evidence clear if he was seated in the U.S. before or after his reported conversion to Christianity."

Second, the "profess" wording is wiggly, wormy and weaselly. Many U.S. politicians don't "profess" anything and we certainly do not officially monitor what they "profess" down to the day. It is unhelpful regarding what most people want to know to ignore David Levy Yulee by claiming that Judah Benjamin was the first person to "profess"... whatever. Yulee was born a Jew and some would even argue this is something one cannot escape out of. Nevertheless, going with the "self-identifying" allowance to permit people to identify how they want, the burden would be on wiki-authors who wish to assert that he self-identified out of Judaism to document this given that he was born Jewish. The footnote above suggests no such documentary evidence exists.

Third, the scope of "cabinet member" should be "U.S." and not "North America" because the former is a political subdivision having cabinet members while the latter is not. Gluten is a tent test (talk) 23:20, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is in support of the text, "Benjamin was the second Jew to be elected to the United States Senate, and the first to hold a cabinet position in the United States" or perhaps that should be "serve in the United States Senate" Gluten is a tent test (talk) 23:31, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

lies by subject and writers

typical wikipdeia bullshit Juror1 (talk) 00:24, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've tweaked it a bit. Is it satisfactory?--Wehwalt (talk) 06:09, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Fictional representations

I'd like to see if there are any reasons the fictional representations should be added. It seems to me to be unsourced and unverifiable information, as well as rather trivial. Further, there is no consensus for adding it, and it was not part of the article when it went through FAC, a consensus process.--Wehwalt (talk) 06:36, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

IP, can you please stop edit warring and take the opportunity to discuss why you think the information should be added. - SchroCat (talk) 16:34, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with the two editors, above. No sources are given for the added information, which is in any case trivia of no value to the article. IP, please approach this in a grown-up way and discuss here if you wish to gain a consensus for adding to this Featured Article. - Tim riley talk 17:14, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Of course you "concur", you and Wehwalt are the same person. I wouldn't be surprised if SchroCat was another alt as well. If by "no consensus" you mean that literally you disagree with it, then that's a shame considering you removed it without any consensus in the first place. Imagine the loneliness you must have to pretend to have a conversation with yourself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:140:8380:DB0:25F0:28B5:4C92:A42B (talk) 18:34, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Silly boy (or girl)! We are three separate people living in two different countries. Do make some attempt to appear intelligent! Tim riley talk 18:38, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Position of paragraph on representations in fiction

I think the paragraph on Benjamin's fictional afterlife should come at the end of the "Appraisal" section, or possibly under a new heading. It currently sits awkwardly between two paragraphs on historiographical reception. Thoughts?
This is the paragraph in question:

Benjamin appears as a character in a number of works of fiction, notably Viña Delmar's 1956 historical novel Beloved and Dara Horn's 2009 novel All Other Nights. The subject of Benjamin's fictional afterlife has been discussed by Michael Hoberman, who notes how the man's "many mysteries" have appealed to novelists as well as historians.

𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 14:06, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't agree. The block quote is well-situated to end the article, and adding something after that is a bad idea. Having a separate subsection would be an invitation for trivia and go against the discussion at the current deletion discussion. I feel that I've compromised by agreeing to let it in, when the deletion discussion could have been allowed to spin out, and that the proposal reverts to the issue (trivia) that led to the representations in fiction article being spun off. Wehwalt (talk) 14:20, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that's a fair framing. The paragraph as currently worded is not a list of trivia. It's a prose summary of the fictional coverage of the subject. Plenty of articles include subsections with hatlinks pointing to spinoff articles. You worry that some editors might see that as an invitation to add content from the second article here, but I don't think that's a good reason not to present sourced information more clearly as we can always revert any indiscriminate additions. 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 14:32, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Right now what we have doesn't justify its own section. If high quality reliable sources per WP:WIAFA can be found to justify more text, that may change. I refer to texts that go beyond simply mentioning that Benjamin is a character but discuss it along the lines of the source that was added. I have no objection to the hatnote. Wehwalt (talk) 18:36, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Recent IP edits

The recent edits by an IP have added a great deal of matter to the article, not all of which is sourced. Indeed, it does not appear that any effort has been made to see that the material added is in the source. This is a FA and this does not satisfy WP:V. Much of it is accurate (though often extraneous) but I cannot say that all of it is accurate. Wehwalt (talk) 13:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Several days have passed. Unless there's an objection, I'm going to revert. Wehwalt (talk) 15:57, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with that. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 17:47, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I waited to see if there was an objection from anyone and there not being, I've reverted. Wehwalt (talk) 17:40, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]