Talk:Joshua Leakey

WP:NOTFORUM

Illegal Weapons Usually in battles like this, the enemy will assign a small force to pour fire on the invaders, and the invaders then spend all their time trying to escape. The original mission of finding and destroying illegal arms caches then becomes secondary to escape and survival. Once the invaders are evacuated, the enemy then knows their cache is at risk, and they move it. The follow on mission to raid the cache again, usually a few days later, is met with old ladies and children eating MRE's over a dung fire. This is a common tactic in all insurgent wars. The slow moving Infantry becomes restricted to forts and daily patrols, slowly becoming worthless militarily. In Afghanistan, the war was won in about a week, by embedding special forces with direct-comms with airpower into the Northern Alliance. This victory was then squandered by the invasion of the country by a poorly trained Infantry, few trained in insurgent warfare. The US/UK invasion then petered out, they declared victory, issued everyone medals, and went home. MonsieurET (talk) 20:18, 26 February 2015 (UTC) That's MREs, not MREs, yes? So, you're just telling us that Lance Corporal Leaky was "poor trained"? MRE123 (talk) 20:45, 26 February 2015 (UTC) [1] Idiotic soap-boxing like you have posted is not only against the rules and "original research" (although that's giving it too much credit), but also completely useless in improving the article. HammerFilmFan (talk) 20:58, 26 February 2015 (UTC) He was highly trained in Infantry skills. But these skills are not as useful in insurgent warfare. Putting Infantry into an insurgent war, is like putting a drop of oil in a gallon of water. You can't win. The article should explain whether the mission was a success, failure, or changed the outcome of the war. Did the Taliban illegal weapons ever get confiscated by the Corporal (except for the dead or wounded enemy combatants)? MonsieurET (talk) 22:23, 26 February 2015 (UTC) I'd suggest that such an explanation has no place in this article, as it has nothing to do with this soldier's act of gallantry. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:53, 26 February 2015 (UTC) Propaganda on Wikipedia? What for? Why are we reading this propaganda on Wikipedia? And why is it that the only heroes we ever read about are from the coalition? Do the insurgents have no heroes? When the americans were fighting for their freedom, they also behaved like insurgents, and they had heroes. Unsigned post by 190.163.151.253 21:28, 26 February 2015 There is unlikely to be many stories written by the insurgents, unless ghost written by someone else. For the most part (in Afghanistan) the warriors are all illiterate. They serve their warlord, and the most they can expect is to be given a wife (or wives), and a sack of dope, or maybe a cut of the heroin trade profits. MonsieurET (talk) 06:29, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Hugs are not exactly a break in tradion

"General Sir Nicholas Carter, broke with tradition to hug Leakey". Hugs are not a break in tradition. Hugs are a tradition in the military, when emotion overwhelms routines for ceremonies. --Dourkenw (talk) 10:25, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

This is how it was described by the BBC. Maybe all VC winners have been given a hug, I'm not sure. Perhaps he doesn't deserve one, as he's an "over achiever"? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:03, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

A small break with tradition maybe, but a refreshing and human one. The 'traditional' bit was when General Carter saluted L/Cpl Leakey VC first, then waited for Leakey to return his salute before dropping it.5.81.74.71 (talk) 17:10, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Identity of US Marine Captain

do we know who this was, or at least his unit? Markb (talk) 10:00, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Captain Brandon Bocian, according to the Mail. Keri (talk) 15:18, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Relatives

Sorry, Gaia Octavia Agrippa, but I don't trust the Daily Mail as a sufficiently reliable source for this edit: [2] Do you have a good source, other than the Daily Mail, for calling David the uncle of Joshua?

This gets a bit convoluted, but if David Leakey really is the uncle of Joshua Leakey, that would presumably make Joshua Leakey's father - Wing Commander Air Commodore Mark Leakey - also a son of David's father Rea Leakey. Just possible, I suppose; but Mark Leakey has said his parents were missionaries in Africa and it seems he was born in Buye in Burundi, which does not fit Rea at all.

Most sources are reporting that Rea's brother Nigel Leakey VC was Joshua Leakey's second cousin twice removed - which this article also repeats. Joshua can't be a second cousin of Nigel (and hence of his brother Rea), and also the nephew of Rea's son David. But being a (second?) cousin of Nigel (and Rea) does seem to align with Mark Leakey's parents being missionaries who are descendants of Rev Harry Leakey (who was Rea Leakey's great-uncle - Rea's grandfather Rev John Arundell Leakey and Rev Harry Leakey were both the sons of James Shirley Leakey).

I have not found a cast-iron source yet, but I suspect Mark Leakey is the son or grandson of Harry Leakey's youngest son, Douglas Leakey (brother of Louis Leakey). I think that would make Joshua Leakey a third cousin of Nigel Leakey, once or twice removed (I'm not surprised that people are not entirely accurate about the precise degree of separation for relatively remote cousins), and possibly a fourth cousin of David. -- Ferma (talk) 19:40, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Got my generations out by one. The great-grandsons of James Shirley Leakey (through different sons) would be second cousins. To get a second cousin, twice removed, we need another two generations on Joshua's side - that is, likely, a great-great-great-grandson of James Shirley Leakey, likely a great-great-grandson of Harry Leakey, and great-grandson of one of Louis Leakey's siblings. That generation anyway, the one below David. That is likely to make David and Mark third cousins. -- Ferma (talk) 19:11, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

The Sun reported that David Leakey is his father's first cousin ([3], unfortunately behind a paywall) - "Mark’s first cousin Lt-Gen David Leakey is also a decorated soldier and is currently Parliament’s Black Rod." I'm not suggesting this as a source but it does show there is some conflicting information circulating. January (talk) 08:21, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for that. David is Rea's son. If David and Mark are first cousins, that would make Mark the son of David's uncle, Nigel, who died in 1941, or of his aunt Agnes, who took a different surname when she married, or of another sibling we don't know about.... Ah, there was another brother, Bob Leakey (Robert Dove Leakey), born in 1914, between Nigel and Rea, who was a paratrooper in India and Burma, and then a potholer, who does seem to be notable given his life and the obituaries, but his children were Benita, Julian, Frances and Raymond.[4][5] Mark could be a first cousin, once removed...

Until the precise degree of affinity can be pinned down by a reliable source, I think we should err on the side of caution, and just say they are "related". -- Ferma (talk) 19:46, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

(From The Daily Telegraph obit (3 May 2013): "Bob Leakey, who has died aged 98, was a potholer and cave diver once described as the 'the Edmund Hillary of Potholing'": [6]). Martinevans123 (talk) 19:57, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Quite! Go ahead and write the article! For what it is worth, Mark Leakey may be notable enough too. He flew Harriers, was rescued from the water twice, once in the Falklands and once in the Mediterranean, ended up with a one-star rank in the RAF, and is now Director of the Armed Forces Christian Union. -- Ferma (talk) 20:09, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Wow, quite a family. I have a personal interest in caving, so I might try a little stub. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:23, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, and that is without mentioning the work done by the missionaries such as Rev Harry Leakey/Henry Leakey in East Africa (clearly notable), the link to Louis Leakey and his descendants, the arguably notable murder of Gray Leakey and his second wife in Kenya in 1954, and their descent from the painter James Leakey (something clearly needed in that article). -- Ferma (talk) 20:32, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Goodness me, I can see the Leakey family emerging here. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:47, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

I can definitely see a Leakey family family emerging. I shall create it now. We need a few more family members to fill it if anyone wants to get started. Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 22:29, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Do we know if all these Leakeys are related? The four military ones currently with articles clearly are but what about the archaeologists and the others? Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 22:56, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

"Robert Dove Leakey was born on June 23 1914 in Kenya, where his family had moved at the turn of the 20th century to work as missionaries. His elder brother, Nigel, a sergeant in the King’s African Rifles, would be awarded the Victoria Cross posthumously for his bravery near Colito, Abyssinia (now Ethiopia), in May 1941. A younger brother, Rae, won a Military Cross and became a major-general. Bob’s cousin, Louis, was the eminent archaeologist and anthropologist whose fossil discoveries in Kenya and Tanzania proved that man was far older than previously thought." - Bob's Telegraph obit. I my have answered my own question! Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 23:01, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Wow! Quite a discussion started here. I agree with @Ferma:, the Daily Mail is a terrible source, shouldn't trust anything it says. I just got a bit too excited that they had more details than simply 'related'! Well done for finding more sources and more likely answer. Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 22:25, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

The more research I do, the larger the family gets! For example, Rev Richard Herbert Leakey (son of Peter Nettleton Leakey and grandson of James Leakey) seems notable as an early missinary in Uganda; it seems that Gray Leakey had at least 5 siblings although none seems notable; and Louis Leakey had 3 surviving siblings, at least two with notable spouses. There are also two marriages to different women called Mary Bazett, both granddaughters of Richard Campbell Bazett (who was born on St Helena, and, highly unusually, was divorced by private Act of Parliament!).[7][8]

Anyway, I have had a go at the family tree, Template:Leakey family tree, but I am sure much is missing. -- Ferma (talk) 18:29, 6 March 2015 (UTC)