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Talk:Jon Baker (producer)

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Trim

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Following listing at WP:BLP/N as a possible vanity article, I have trimmed this article down to restrict it to content drawn from reliable sources. Jon, if you're reading this: I think there is no reason for you not to have a WP page. The previous version was very obviously a vanity piece, though, so I think I've done you a favour. No reason not to expand the article again with WP:RS, but please be conservative. --FormerIP (talk) 04:33, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Whither his mother?

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The original text posted in June 2010 contains a whole paragraph about Baker's mother – "the head designer at Susan Small, a British ready-to-wear fashion firm". Why on earth was all of this deleted when it is extremely relevant to his own career choices? 217.155.200.241 (talk) 11:52, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed New Draft for Jon Baker Page

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Hi Wikipedians, My name is Daisy and I work for Jon Baker. The current page is flagged as an advert, because of content like "has been rated Jamaica's number-one hotel by travel review website TripAdvisor.com" and "earned a strong reputation among industry insiders and attracted several top artists". It's also incomplete in that it has very little information about Jon's recent work in Jamaican hospitality that is well-covered in the media. I'd like to share a draft of a reworked page that I'm offering as a potential replacement for the current article. While it's probably imperfect, my hope is it's a big improvement over what's up now.

Per WP:COI, I'd like to ask that a more impartial editor review the proposed draft and decide whether all or part of it would be an improvement over the current page. Thank you in advance for your feedback. Daizypeach (talk) 14:16, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Daizypeach: Per request at my talk page I am happy to take a look.
Doing this as a potential substitution of the entire article presents some challenges. For a potential reviewer to handle it thoroughly it presents a gigantic "compare and contrast" project to see what material and sources got deleted and what material got added. (But at first glance it looks OK) Second, a mass substitution, wipes out all history of evolution of various parts of the article. Can you present this instead as specific proposed changes? Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:16, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @North8000:. No problem. I can propose smaller changes at-a-time. This shows why I think a couple sentences in the early life section should be trimmed, followed by highlights showing the new content proposed to replace it. Let me know if that approach works going forward. Kindest, Daizypeach (talk) 19:19, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. I did 'em. Let me know if I made any errors.North8000 (talk) 19:40, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! @North8000:. I've used a similar format to explain a few more edits ​here. This is to add an infobox and tackle the beginning of his career. Let me know if this is too much to review at-once. Daizypeach (talk) 21:45, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cool. A few thoughts:

  • What is "Club Negril the Roxy club"? Sounds like two different clubs being described as a single club
  • The "all over New York" in "designers and events all over New York from Danceteria to the Peppermint Lounge" sounds laudatory and un-encyclopedic. Can you word differently?
  • I'd like to not deal with the full info box yet. It you could temporarily reduce it to just the slam dunk hard core factual stuff (i.e. not yet "known for") I'd be game for putting it in now.

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 22:01, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@North8000:. I've revised the proposed changes based on your feedback: (1) removed "Club Negril" (2) rewrote/shortened the laudatory sentence and (3) removed "known for" from the infobox. Daizypeach (talk) 17:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I put the info box in. For this edit, could you say exactly what would come out and be replaced by this? You said "early career" section but there is no such section.North8000 (talk) 22:28, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Butting in here ... Daizypeach, for major or substantial changes to the page the recommended approach is to first obtain consensus for your changes here on the talk-page, and then submit an edit request to have them implemented. You should be aware that we have absolutely no interest in what Baker or his employees want to say about him – our content is written by non-involved volunteer editors based entirely on what is reported in independnet reliable sources, in line with our basic policies of neutrality and verifiability. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think that there are two different aspects involved here. One is the COI aspect where she can request that another editor make a change which any non-COI editor can do, which is what's been happening, and I've been that "other editor". IMHO the requested edits have clearly been improvements. Once I do it it's just a plain 'ole edit by an editor. Anybody who disputes it can revert it, and I welcome anyone who feels that way to revert it; but I would request that they give a reason regarding the edit. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 03:07, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@North8000: I’m suggesting the current “NYC, 1980–84” section be replaced with the proposed “Early career” section. Daizypeach (talk) 15:08, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like a definite improvement and I made them. I took out one item that was not in source which I also thought was a wiki issue. North8000 (talk) 17:25, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@North8000: If you still have the interest/time, I shared another explanation on the problems with the current content, and a proposed replacement here for the next section of the page. In a nutshell, it's the same as the other sections. The content on the current page is either uncited or cited to something that just mentions Baker's company Gee Street Records in passing. The proposed content is quite a bit better. Daizypeach (talk) 18:04, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to review. Like always, can you explicitly define the proposed change. Like "replace xxx with yyy" Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:54, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@North8000: Thanks! The requested change would be replace the current “Gee Street Records, 1985-1990” section with the proposed draft "Gee Street Records" section. The reason for this approach, rather than making individual changes, is illustrated in the linked page. The current section does not have a single sentence that is actually supported by a quality citation, so there is nothing to salvage IMO. Daizypeach (talk) 21:55, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
IMHO there is some content and sources in the old version that would be nice to keep. I'm going to add the proposed section & pare some material from the old one. North8000 (talk) 13:49, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I did that. Not that there's anything magic about the version I left. It probably needs more changes. But that's how Wikipedia rolls. Daizypeach let me know if you see any fixes / changes that need doing or regarding other proposed changes. North8000 (talk) 14:08, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks I think this is great @North8000:. Regarding the next section ("Island Records 1991-1997…") my suggestion is that the section be trimmed from the page.

The first sentence of that section is redundant with information already in the "Gee Street Records…" section. The rest of that paragraph is all cited to page 134 of a book called The Virgin Encyclopedia of Dance Music. I have a copy of the book in question, but I don't see where it says any of the facts it is cited for. I will email you a PDF copy if you like. My email is daisybeech@gmail.com Daizypeach (talk) 21:02, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Daizypeach. This is getting confusing. I know that if I took a deep dive and read all of the sources I could write a coherent section for the period covered by these two section. But I really am not interested in going that deep on this topic. Your last edit seemed to want to remove enclyclopedic material and instead I just combined the two which may contribute to confusion, Now I think you are proposing zapping the entire "Island Records 1991–97 / V2 1997–2000" which I think is 9 years of history at two different companies. What this area needs is a coherent history of the 1985 - 2000 period covered by these two sections.North8000 (talk) 22:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed Edit: Dividing 'Geejam 2000s' Section

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The current page has a section called Geejam, 2000s that combines information about Geejam Studios (the production company) and Geejam Hotel. I'd like to suggest dividing this section into two sections called "Geejam Studios" and "Geejam Hotel" that can each be expanded a bit. Any thoughts? Daizypeach (talk) 09:47, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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