Talk:Johnny Cash/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Fair Use for Song Samples

The fair use rationale for the samples from "I Walk the Line" and "Cocaine Blues" claims that "The sample is being used for commentary on the music recording in question." This is not true, as this is an article about Johnny Cash and not about the songs in question, and actually contains little or no such commentary. I am removing the sample links for this reason. -Stellmach 20:27, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

125,127-82,000

On the subject of the forest fire, it says: " The federal government sued him and was awarded $125,127. Johnny eventually settled the case and paid $82,000." Which is it?Richbank 00:31, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

This is not a contradiction. A "settlement" in this context is a negotiated agreement to forego further legal action, and often involves payment of less than the full amount contested. -Stellmach 14:52, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Beer

This website claims that also Cash released "A Pub with No Beer". http://www.poparchives.com.au/feature.php?id=545 It says: "The song was suggested to to Tom T. Hall by Johnny Cash who apparently performed the song himself." Is this a studio recording or a live performance? Peeper 09:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Cash never released "A Pub with No Beer" on any of his studio albums and don't recall him performing it live either. If he did, it definitely wasn't released on a live album. Cromag 20:32, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

He did record the song live. But if he did record it in studio, it was never released. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darth Septic (talk • contribs) 17:18, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

On camera

Did he win an MTV VMA? Or just nominated? What year? (I understand he was the oldest ever to do it.) Trekphiler 04:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Well the video for "Hurt" won best cinematography in 2003 but i'm not for certain that award went to cash i believe it went to his director. --67.134.108.9 (talk) 07:04, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

This sentence appears at the end of the section on "Awards and Honors:" "He was nominated for best cinematography for "Hurt" and was supposed to appear, but died during the night." Who nominated him? Where was he supposed to appear? This sentence doesn't make any sense, but if it were clarified, it would be interesting information.Eric Kindig 22:53, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Rock and roll

I was hesitant about addressing this matter, but I figured my status as a Johnny Cash fan (or at least I consider myself to be one) supports my view that Cash was not only far from a pioneer of rock and roll; he simply never was a rock and roll artist. I've noticed that several sections (and the infobox) in this article state otherwise. Personally, I think that recording songs in the same legendary studio as some of the future rock and roll stars whose career began in the 1950s just isn't enough to consider someone an important figure in the evolution of the genre. One important argument in favor of considering Cash a rock and roll artist is indeed his induction into the genre's hall of fame in 1992, but I can't think of any more, aside from literally a handful of rock and roll songs he recorded (and one of those was a demo). Not sure about the blues category either. In general, I think there's a tendency to give Cash more credit than he deserves (not to disrespect him, of course; I appreciate his important contributions to country and folk music) due to his latter-day American series releases. Cromag 20:29, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd appreciate it if anyone would be willing to comment on this, 'cause I myself am in favor of cutting back on the rock and roll references. Cromag 18:20, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

The "recording songs in the same legendary studio" bit seems to me like a straw man argument, and not a very productive way to approach the discussion. In any case, if you doubt any particular claim in the article, you are well-advised to call for a citation to back it up, or produce some contrary citation yourself. Failing that we're stuck in the realm of individual opinion about what constitutes "rock and roll," which seems to be a contentious issue. -Stellmach 21:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I won't deny that the term itself is controverial and not very well-defined, but Wikipedia itself provides or mentions a number of guidelines as to what constitutes a rock and roll record, specifically the early variety, which, I'm guessing, is what the article refers to. Elements of early rock and roll that are conspicuously lacking in Cash's musical output include the use of a drum kit (W. S. Holland started touring with Cash in 1960, when Cash was making music that was already quite comfortably outside the boundaries of rock and roll) and piano, which appears very rarely in Cash songs (and almost none of those are even close to the genre in question). No saxophone around, either. Generally, Cash might be considered rockabilly, but rock and roll is saying too much; I'd opt for trading one for the other. Also, as I mentioned before, I respect the decision to induct Cash into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but I myself would be happy to accept other forms of proof, including the titles of tracks which could perhaps be considered typical of the rock and roll genre. Having heard most of Cash's output, I can pretty much safely conclude that "Get Rhythm" is one of the very few songs exhibiting clear rock and roll influences. Can anyone name other tracks, aside from standard like "I Walk the Line"?

I'm planning to take a long WikiBreak in the near future and won't be able to work on the article, but I just wanted to mention that it looks rather poor the way it is now. The blues references are back, the piano has been added as an instrument (which, to me, is suspicious to say the least), superfluous record label pairings have been tossed into the infobox, "That Old Wheel" has been added as a signature song. The biographical info is extensive (perhaps overly so, in fact), but does its job quite well. Nevertheless, the article is clearly susceptible to edits that are not entirely well-informed. I hope that at least the issue at hand can be resolved effectively. Cromag ^{talk to me} 18:38, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Your link about "guidelines" merely goes to the article about rock and roll, not to any actual Wikipedia guideline. Articles obviously ought to avoid mutual inconsistencies, but that doesn't really elevate any of them to the status of editorial guidance. -Stellmach 20:13, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

You're right, but that in turn is what I deem to be a bit of an unrelated argument. I will admit that the article on rock and roll doesn't go to lengths to provide each statement with a reference, but the same logic can be used on this article; also, I'm quite sure that you won't find Cash listed under "blues" or other such nonsense in any respectable encyclopedia. Unfortunately, I do not have access to any recent English encyclopedic publication, but you're welcome to double-check for the key elements of rock and roll style if you do. Less reputable sources like The Free Encyclopedia stress the importance of "an energetic driving rhythm and heavy insistent beat" and refer to rhythm and blues as the genre's source material, which in Cash's case is possible, yet questionable. Britannica, on the other hand, contains a rather poor article on the genre itself, but mentions some elements which are generally regarded as common in rock music (though the two don't necessarily overlap), partly through a reference to the Canadian government's definition: "[music] characterized by a strong beat, the use of blues forms and the presence of rock instruments such as electric guitar, electric bass, electric organ or electric piano". Conversely, it also highlights the varying interpretations of rock and roll. Regardless of what these references state, it should be said that a lot of what came out of Sun Records in the mid-1950s was and is considered classic due to its simplicity, a trait characteristic of both Cash and other artists he had contact with; however, at least to me, comparing contemporaries like Little Richard, Elvis Presley (although his output is extremely varied) or Jerry Lee Lewis (it is also useful to note that Lewis, for example, has explored a variety of genres, but returned to his rock and roll roots recently with Last Man Standing, while the disputed rock and roll phase in Cash's career was undisputably brief, with almost none of his post-50s records showing any trace of even rockabilly and mainly sticking to pure country-and-western) with Cash leaves no doubt as to who the phrase "rock and roll" can be assigned to. Cromag ^{talk to me} 19:20, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

• You obviously no little about rock 'n roll. Rock 'n roll is not a music genre, it is a philosophy. And Cash fits into it perfectly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BillyJack193 (talk • contribs) 19:17, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
  • Thank you for your well thought-out, meticulously constructed and thoroughly convincing reasoning. Cromag ^{talk to me} 21:34, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
  • PS I assume that since it is sufficient to adhere to a philosophy in order to be classified into a musical genre, that is also reason enough to throw Cash, as has now been done, into the "proto-punk" bag? For my part, I contend that "When the Man Comes Around" is a rap song, ergo one more genre should be taken into consideration. Breaking the irony, as a Cash fan, I am opposed to stuffing him into every genre imaginable in order to underline his greatness and vast influence on music. It undermines the credibility of Wikipedia as a source of knowledge. Cromag ^{talk to me} 21:38, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree to the statement that while he may certainly have influenced artists, elements, or other forces associated with rock, and that while some songs have proto-rock rhythms, to say he played rock and roll music is a pretty big stretch. This seems a bit of revisionism. This can descend into subjective details pretty quickly, as per above, so why not simply go with the preponderance of 1) how he defined himself, 2) how his contemporaries defined him, 3) how the majority of people define him today. None of which would place him in the rock and roll camp. I'm sure obscure, espoteric music history arguments can be made that, if you take a very specific meaning of rock and roll, or use very specific genre, you can wedge him into rock and roll. I'm sorry, this is disingenuous.Jbower47 (talk) 23:19, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Nine Inch Nails Cover Song?

Does anyone else notice that it says one of his greatest hits "hurt" is a cover of a nine inch nails song, obviously this is impossible but every time I try to remove it, it gets denied.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Winzlow90 (talk • contribs) 16:54, June 2, 2007 (UTC)

If by "obviously impossible" you mean that it's true, then yes. The song was originally by Nine Inch Nails. See Hurt (song). Also, please sign your comments in the future (with "~~~~"). Adam McMaster 18:06, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Technically, the song wasn't a big hit (check its top position on the charts). But influential it was. And I agree that your argument's a tad faulty, Winzlow. Cromag 18:11, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

While Cash's "Hurt" is indeed a cover, so are many of the other songs mentioned here, as Cash freely recorded other people's material. We don't mention in the introduction that "Rock Island Line" is a Lead Belly song or that "Ring of Fire" was origianlly recorded by Anita Carter, so what justifies different treatment for "Hurt?" -Stellmach 18:26, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Ledbelly and Carter (and presumably all the others) are fairly mainstream cover choices for a country artist. Covering an industrial metal band is notable and deserves a mention because it shows Cash's versatility and independence as an artist. It's mentioned in virtually all media references to the track for that same reason, so to omit it here would be to reduce the informativeness of the article. Thomjakobsen 15:16, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

But should it be in the first paragraph? That kind of reads like one of those paragraphs they'd give you in standardized tests in elementary school and ask you which sentence doesn't belong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.20.56.156 (talk) 19:34, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:JohnnyCashAmericanRecordings.jpg

Image:JohnnyCashAmericanRecordings.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 06:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I've added a fair use rationale for the use of the image on American Recordings (album) – I suspect the use of it on this page doesn't qualify as fair use, but I'm not sure. Adam McMaster 10:51, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Merge proposal

I support the merge of Johnny Cash family into this article. Eliz81^{(talk)(contribs)} 09:39, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

It's hard for me to find any significant material in the article that isn't already here, or under June Carter or Carter Family. If I'm missing something and there's actually something there to merge, then sure. -Stellmach 02:40, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Mr. Cash's career is important enough that he deserves his own entry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.22.119.219 (talk) 16:29, August 21, 2007 (UTC)

The question isn't whether Johnny Cash is "important enough" for an article. (Come on!) It's whether we need a separate article on his family other than what's in June Carter, Carter Family, Rosanne Cash, etc. I (and Eliz81) suspect we do not. Hult041956 17:11, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I was very skeptical about this merger at first. But, after looking at the Johnny Cash family article, I have to agree that whatever is of value should be merged into this article, and/or June Carter, Carter Family, or the articles about the specific children. Once that is done, and the all the speculative/unreferenced/OR material is removed, there'll be naught left of the other article. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 16:24, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Good. Then, I assert we have a consensus. User Stellmach believes there may be nothing worthwhile left in "family". And 129.22 perhaps was confused, believing the proposal was to remove this article. But no one seems to believe we still need the fossil "family" article any longer. (See that talk page for another discussion about this.) I volunteer to take this on. I will post here a specific resolution, paragraph by paragraph, before performing the edits. Seems fair? Hult041956 22:00, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 23:43, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I pasted three or four paragraphs from Johnny Cash family into this article, then made one pass at blending that material in. (This merge was way overdue.) I did a little bit of rephrasing and editing, mostly to fix redundancies, bad sequencing, and the like. Except for this, I tried not to change others' intent or meaning. I admit the blending is still rough. Please feel free to improve. Hult041956 21:36, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Man in Black (song)

The article for Man in Black (song) is currently two lines long and has been subject to a speedy-deletion attempt and an unclear-notability tag. I've retagged it as "needs expansion" as I've assumed its notability (this article has it listed in the introduction as a signature track), but it's badly in need of work. Figured this was the best place to bring attention to it. Thomjakobsen 15:23, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Boom-chick-a-boom

In the opening, one finds the following sentence:

Cash was known for ... the boom-chick-a-boom or "freight train" sound of his Tennessee Three backing band....

MD1937 keeps insisting on adding the parenthetical statement "though this became less characteristic of his later work" and I believe that it is irrelevant and unnecessary in the opening. I would like to hear what other people think on this issue. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 02:46, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Changes in an artist's style are worth mentioning, but certainly not in the article introduction. The introduction needs to say who the person was, why they are notable ... and that's pretty much it. Details are for the body. -Stellmach 16:29, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

That was precisely my thought. Thank you. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 16:52, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I've just deleted this comment yet again. MD1937 insists on adding it, though he has never responded to this discussion, as I asked him to do. I really do not understand the importance of that phrase. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 00:10, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, there he goes again. I've left a note on his talk page in the hopes of getting some kind of response. The way this is being resolved now (i.e. not) is pointless. - -Stellmach 20:51, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I will be interested in seeing if he responds. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 23:45, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I just deleted the information again. And, once again, he has failed to come here and explain his actions. I left another message on his talk page. If he readds the irrelevant information, I will report him to an administrator. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 16:42, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

House lost in fire

Johnny Cash's "museum" house burnt down in fire very recently—I read somewhere in the news. It's been in possession of some Hollywood celebrity couple. I don't know much or have much interest in it, but someone else might want to research and add the information. I regret every event of destruction.
—6birc, 20:43, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

First marriage/Rosanne Cash

I did some rewording of the paragraph on his first marriage, and decided to bring the following paragraph here for discussion:

Rosanne Cash had a very successful recording career on her own. She and her step-sister Carlene Carter sing on Cash's 1976 album, Junkie and the Juicehead Minus Me. Rosanne has released many albums since the late 70s, many of them are produced by her former husband Rodney Crowell. In 2003, Rodney and Johnny Cash would re-record "Walk the Line" together.

I do not see any reason we need this much detail about the career of Rosanne in an article about Johnny. Almost anyone knows she is his daughter, and her name is linked in the previous paragraph, so people can go read her article if they are interested. No slight to Rosanne, but most of this information is superfluous in the current article. Thoughts? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 16:18, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly. By coincidence, only a few minutes ago, I deleted the following paragraph from The Velvet Underground.

The band was name-dropped in the 1982 Fleetwood Mac song “Gypsy” (So I'm back to the Velvet Underground / Back to the floor that I love / To a room with some lace and paper flowers), a reference to songwriter Stevie Nicks returning to her childhood home where she listened to the Velvet Underground as a teenager. Nico was clearly an influence on the very young Nicks, who was just 19 and starting to open for Janis Joplin with Fritz in the Bay Area in 1967 when The Velvet Underground and Nico was released.

Like your example, which is a paragraph about Rosanne and Carlene and not about Johnny, my example is about Stevie Nicks and not about the VU. I'm all for "building the web," but both these examples make the main article somewhat sloppy and border on trivia. Back to your issue: perhaps something like "among Johnny Cash's children, Rosanne Cash and John Carter Cash are notable musicians" would suffice, placed in the "Legacy" section. What do you think of that? Hult041956 18:48, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate and understand your example, and I agree with your suggestion. His children who are notable musicians should certainly be mentioned in the article. But, the way that was stuck in the section about his first marriage was just not good. Would you like to make the change you suggested? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 20:06, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Done. Hult041956 21:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

If the article is to discuss the marriage history of the subject and that history is contentious, it should include more detail. For example, the first wife was from devout Italian Roman Catholic family. What faith were the Cash family? Did Johnny convert? If he was RC or converted how disruptive was the Divorce. Was there an annulment - open or clandestine(religious)?

In the movie, "Walk the Line" there is a scene where June Carter is confronted by a protestant(?) store clerk condemning her divorce, however the equivalent critism of Vivian's marriage/divorce would be greater in her faith.

Did these religious tangles preciptate or complicate Johnny's emotional troubles?

These complication are not as apparent in the USA as they are in more Sectarian Jurisdictions.

Pete318 (talk) 16:57, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

County of birth

Kingsland is in Cleveland County, Arkansas Source; http://www.usgenweb.com 216.41.138.168 (talk) 03:22, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Heritage

I made the decision to move the section that discussed Cash's Scottish heritage down further in the article. I can see no reason that this aspect of his life should come before anything else. Anyone have any thoughts or objections? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 17:04, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Good decision. This section is about a discovery Cash made late in his life and a correction of a mistaken belief Cash had held about his heritage. That's interesting perhaps, but not essential. Hult041956 (talk) 21:11, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Frankly, I'm not sure how I missed it, given the number of times I've edited the article. It really did not belong at the top. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 03:08, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

First American to learn Stalin had died

As the Stalin article states this was a Russian transmission. Does this mean: a) Cash spoke/read Russian or b) Cash decoded the message and handed it to a translator (and thus was the second American to learn Stalin had died or c) the message was deliberately sent in English for reception by NATO d) the story is apocryphal

I can't find anything about this message anywhere on the net!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.182.109 (talk) 23:16, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Can someone please find a better reference regarding the discovery of Josef Stalin's death? The article from "The Austin Chronicle" does not seem very reliable - it cites no sources for this information, and the name of the author seems dubious.99.250.28.49 (talk) 19:35, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I would delete this line until (if) a better reference is found. The given citation is not a significant, reliable reference. Tanthalas39 (talk) 23:31, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I have marked this citation as dubious.129.97.192.204 (talk) 00:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I have removed the "dubious." But, on second thought, I think I am going to remove the information entirely. It can be restored if a real reference is found. The article is none the worse for the loss of this "fact." ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 01:42, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Even if true, it's trivia. -Stellmach 17:26, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I doubt its provenance, I doubt it could be proven, and, yes, as you say, it is trivial. The article is none the worse for its removal. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 02:25, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

It's mentioned in his autobiography, so I would have though it's true or at least he believed it to be true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Porcepic2 (talk • contribs) 16:50, 13 January 2009 (UTC) On which page is this mentioned? I have not read the entire book yet.Jjohnston90 (talk) 02:40, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

"Cash 1997"

There are several references in the article which are given as "Cash 1997," all of which come from the autobiography, but no page numbers are given. This has to be fixed. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 16:00, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Can the person who added these references, or someone with a copy of this book, please add page numbers? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 03:19, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes I try to do this. I have the copy of the book at my desk because of a report I am working on. I may not fix all of them but I will try( Pesky Library due dates)Jjohnston90 (talk) 02:39, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Radio Operator

There is a story he was a radio operator who first heard some transmission from the soviet block. Can someone comment on that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.185.239.106 (talk) 18:29, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Please see this discussion above. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 18:54, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Thx 68.12.202.125 (talk) 02:41, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Certainly. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 04:22, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

just pure speculation.....

Did his experience and discipline as a radio/telegraph operator influence the precise rhythm of many of his melodies - a beat as steady as a locomotive?

Pete318 (talk) 16:57, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Songs in the lede

Am I the only one who feels that there are too many songs listed in the lede? Are these all really necessary? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 03:24, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I waited more than 6 months for comment, received none, and have now removed the following songs from the lede:

"That Old Wheel", "Cocaine Blues", "The One on the Right Is on the Left", "Dirty Old Egg-Sucking Dog", and "Orange Blossom Special"

If anyone objects, you are free to make your case here, but I feel there are enough songs listed now. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 22:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Nope, no problem here. I had also noticed that there were a few too many songs listed, and I had mentally filed it away as "something I'll possibly get around to eventually fixing one of these days." Looks pretty good now, thanks. --Bongwarrior (talk) 23:02, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

American VI?

This claim is made under the "Legacy" section: "American VI, the final release of tracks recorded with Rubin, was released in 2008."

Is there any actual evidence for this?

Looks like someone already cleaned this up. Jeff d kirby (talk) 16:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Death Date

The date in the article and the date in the table at the top right differ, which one is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Khoopes (talk • contribs) 04:41, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

67.187.199.122 (talk) 09:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

They do not differ. They both say 12 September, 2003, which is the correct date. -Stellmach 14:19, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Check again, they do differ, the one in the death section says May 15th, 2003. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.71.239.118 (talk) 01:59, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

His wife June Carter cash died on May 15, 2003. Johnny Cash died September 12, 2003. --87.165.179.19 (talk) 20:19, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't that make him 71 when he died, not 73 as stated in the article?Iankeenan (talk) 18:30, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Second Marriage

Strangely, there is a section on his first marriage, but nowhere I could find a reference to his second marriage. Obviously it was to June Carter, and June Carter is referenced as June Carter Cash at the end of the entry. And the Carters are mentioned several times. But their marriage - and when it happened - seems to be missing from the entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.153.241.162 (talk) 18:56, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Instruments?

When did Johnny Cash play the pedal steel? I am not aware of him ever playing the instrument, and it was not an important instrument in the majority of his music. The acoustic guitar and harmonica are the two main instruments he played, and are really the only instruments that should be listed in the infobox. Thoughts? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 01:13, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

If it'll settle the constant insertion of piano & other crap, & you can source it, I'm good. TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 16:53, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

I removed piano, again, and doubt anyone will provide a ref for it, so it should stay out. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 17:06, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

No, harmonica & acoustic, which I presume aren't in doubt. TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 17:09, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Norah Jones at the memorial in 1999?

Did Norah Jones really play at the memorial in 1999?
She was an unknown at the time.
Pnelnik (talk) 21:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Johnny Cash

Johnny Cash is one of the best people. Johnny Cash died in 2005.He was the best selling elvome in 2004.Is selling dis was black heaven. Johnny was 67 when he died. He had the best fans.He had over 20000 people that would come to all his conserts. Johnny was so big he had over 9000000$ .

Family

The article, without citation, claims Cash was one of seven children:

1. Johnny (J.R.)
2. Reba Hancock
3. Jack
4. Joanne (Cash-Yates)
5. Tommy
6. Roy
7. Louise Cash Garrett

However, his obituary in the Guardian mentions Cash having only two brothers and two sisters, making him one of five children, at least around 1935 <http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2003/sep/13/guardianobituaries.artsobituaries> (mentions brothers Jack and Roy by name). Another source, <http://www2.smumn.edu/stupages/~amrose04/johnny_cash.htm>, claims he was one of six children (no name provided).

Can anyone verify the number of Cash's brothers and sister?

-- Meyer (talk) 05:40, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

The Tommy Cash article notes he was born in 1940, which would make the Guardian's 1935 information harmonize with the report of six children. -- Meyer (talk) 05:54, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Gathering information:

• http://www.buddycase.com/cash/johnnyfuneral.html Copy of Cash obituary with number and names of siblings agreeing with this article.
• http://obit.harpethhills.com/obitdisplay.html?id=293591&listing=All Obituary of sister Reba with number and names of siblings agreeing with this article.
• http://nashvillecowboychurch.org/design/pages/joanne.htm Page on sister Joanne indicating she was six years old when brother Jack was killed. That would put her birth around 1938, which also fits with the Guardian's mention of five children in 1935: five children when the Cashes moved to Dyess in 1935 plus Joanne born around 1938 and Tommy in 1940 makes seven.

I think I'm convinced. I'll add the two obituaries above as references to the statement about Cash's family. -- Meyer (talk) 07:19, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Dates?

Towards the end, a lot of the dates don't seem to make sense, claiming his last shows were after he died.

--92.1.161.171 (talk) 16:08, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Also, "Active 1955 - Present" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.179.21.211 (talk) 06:25, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Another date that doesn't make sense is saying he was slated to appear on the 2003 VMAs, but passed that night. He died in Sept and the VMAs were recorded in August. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.239.212.132 (talk) 13:24, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Quotes

Correct me if I'm wrong but there are little if any quotes by Johnny or about Johnny. I have some that I could put in is this a good idea?Jjohnston90 (talk) 02:44, 19 February 2009 (UTC) Never mind I did not see the Wiki qoute link

Johnny Cash, Kirk Douglas Movie

I did not see any mention of the 1971 movie "A Gunfight" which starred Cash and Kirk Douglas. Douglas even appeared on Cash's tv show to plug the movie. As far as I know, this was Cash's only role in a full length movie. Shouldn't it rate a mention? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.255.147.56 (talk) 03:42, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Part in Guitar Hero 5

Why is there no mention of him being a playable character in the upcoming Guitar Hero 5? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.209.4.247 (talk) 02:57, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

River or lake?

I removed the following sentence from the "last years and death" section and bring it here for discussion:

Despite his poor health, he spoke of looking forward to the day when he could walk again and toss his wheelchair into the lake near his home.

I do not know whether he said river or lake, and in the absence of a reference, preferably with a direct quote, it's difficult to know what he said or meant. It should be left out until a source is found. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 16:33, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Spiraling or spiralling?

This is a very minor point and not anything worth getting our backs up about, but I'd like to settle this if we can. Wiktionary gives spiralling with two "l"s as the British form, with one "l" as the US form: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/spiral As Cash is American, we should use the latter, yes? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 02:36, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

On that, we're agreed. My Webster's New World Ed doesn't distinguish, & it may be my Apple dictionary (on which I relied as default...) is Canadian-spec, so using Brit spelling... :/ If so, change it back. TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 06:22 & 06:25, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Firefox is pretty good about catching spelling errors, and it tags the two "l"s spelling as incorrect. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 15:39, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

To clarify, it's not the in-built browser spellcheck, but an aux "mini" (with its own icon). Which lists it as Oxford New American Dictionary... Now I'm really confused. But if you've got an offline source saying one el (Mon-El? ;p), I have no objection whatever to it being changed back & left alone by me. TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 03:15, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

I am going with the assumption that Wiktionary's information is accurate. Am I naïve to think so? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 04:26, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

AFAIK, it's OK. As noted, however, I'm not in a position to say with any certainty. ;D Noah Webster ^{what's that mean, anyhow?} 21:22, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, as I was typing my last response, I realized I was only making an assumption. What's sort of funny is how much time we have given to discussing this fairly minor point. Still, accuracy is something to strive for, yes? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 23:47, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

It is, & I'm happy to see somebody is as nutty about it as I can be. ;p Spock ^{no, wait, it's 5,771,563} 00:49 & 00:58, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I owe apologies to all. Testing the system dictionary with "defence", it defaults to the U.S. spelling. I didn't look at the root, spiral, which shows the Brit variation... My big bad. 8( 8( Ray Babbitt ^{who's on first?} 22:16, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Johnny Cash Museum?

The Johnny Cash Museum is located in Hendersonville, Tennessee?? I was in Hendersonville last year and there was no Johnny Cash Museum? Do you mean the "House of Cash"? This one is closed since ages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.78.35.68 (talk) 14:45, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Johnny Cash's Hurt

It was named in Rolling Stones Magazine as the best music video of the 2000s decade. It should be put up there somewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darth Septic (talk • contribs) 23:57, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Posthumous album?

I removed the following bit about a posthumous album, and bring it here for discussion:

Enough of Cash's music was left to put together a posthumous album which he had helped plan. The last collection of posthumous songs from Cash's sessions with Rubin, American VI: Ain’t No Grave, is poised to be released on Feb. 26, 2010.

One part of this has been fact-tagged for almost a year. The other part has been changed enough times that I think it is fair to say we do not know what is going to happen. The current source does not seem notable or reliable to me. The best bet at this point is to wait and see if something actually is released and write about it then. Any thoughts? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 01:09, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Leave prophecies to "ET" or Rolling Stone. WP'll have it within minutes of it hitting the street, & that's soon enough. TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 04:43, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Proto-punk?

The contentious subject of genres has already been raised several times, but (not meaning to insult any editor) I believe this is completely unsustainable and unnecessary. How in the blazin' heck is Cash proto-punk? Sources? Quotes? Anything to support the notion? The indirect influence of a musician on a genre does not merit him a place in that genre's pantheon. I doubt punk owes much more to Cash than does hip-hop, with a couple of artists who have given unequivocal statements on Cash's impact in their world. Unless a satisfactory source is quoted, I suggest the reference be removed. I'll await replies before doing so myself. Cromag ^{talk to me} 21:47, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

I can't, by any stretch of the imagination, see how Cash could be classified as Proto-Punk. Though I'm sure SOME punker, somewhere was into him, his music really didn't lead into the creation of Punk. I back Cromag for its removal. --Leodmacleod (talk) 23:05, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

He's certainly not what I'd call a punk icon. If there's sourced info for his influence on, say, The Kinks or The Clash or somebody (not a punk fan, so no claim to know who it should be...), it'd be worth reconsidering; even then, his influence would have to be pretty substantial to justify including him under that genre listing, which IMO means he'd have to have been a founding member of Pink Floyd, or something... TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 00:29, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone object to removal pro-punk genre? --Leodmacleod (talk) 22:36, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Had I seen it sooner, I would have removed it myself. Frankly speaking, there is no genre called "proto-punk," and any article on the subject should be clear about this. What you have, instead, are a bunch of very diverse artists who are, in hindsight, given that label because they directly influenced, or are perceived to have influenced, punk. But, it is not a genre in the sense that punk or rockabilly are genres. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 03:18, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

According to the protopunk article, "Genres such as classical music, the avant garde, outsider music, reggae...traditional Irish music...and free jazz influenced punk rock and later post-punk bands." In other words, or so I gather, everything but the kitchen sink is protopunk. As for reliable sources, the best I could find was a random comment at the beginning of some geology dissertation: "Special thanks go out to Bob Dylan and Johnny Cash for being so damn punk before punk even existed, and for not caring whether they were punk or folk or country or neither or both." So tempting... *G* Cosmic Latte (talk) 00:47, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Name

Should the article open by referring to him as "Johnny Cash" or as "John R. 'Johnny' Cash"? The latter seems like something of a combination of his birth name and his stage name, but his songwriting was officially credited, not to "Johnny" or "J. R.", but rather to "John R. Cash". Any thoughts? Cosmic Latte (talk) 02:32, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I think it should be left as Johnny. His given initials are right there in the lede, but no one calls him by that name, nor do they call him John R. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 03:21, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Apparently (at least according to Johnny Cash#Early life), everyone who knew him personally called him either John or J.R. Because his legal name (again according to the Early life subsection) was John R. Cash, whereas "Johnny" was something of a nickname/stage name, I think the most appropriate way to open the article would be as follows: "John R. "Johnny" Cash (February 26, 1932 – September 12, 2003), born J. R. Cash, was an American singer-songwriter..." Publicly, he was of course known as Johnny; but personally and legally, he seems to have been known as John (R.) or J.R. Then again, I don't know this for a fact, and the subsection needs to be better sourced. But if it can be verified that his legal name was indeed John R., then John R. should (IMO) take precedence. Cosmic Latte (talk) 19:04, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Update: I've found a source that seems to confirm that his legal name was, indeed, John R. Cash, and I've revised the article accordingly. Please feel free to revert and/or discuss if there are any problems. Cosmic Latte (talk) 22:59, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

The Lead

Is it just me, or does the lead look over-festooned with citations? As I understand it, the Lead should set out what is later to be expanded in the body of the article, and need not be assiduously referenced. It just looks like a disruptive experience for our readers as it is. Rodhullandemu 00:04, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with you. It is entirely overdone. A lot of that information probably does not belong in the lede at all. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 16:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Cash impersonator

I removed the following from the article and bring it here for discussion:

A notable Cash impersonator, Jackson Cash, plays frequently in Branson, Missouri venues, and appeared in a documentary film, Branson, in 2009.

Even with the references, this person's notability is highly doubtful. The standard should be, would he rate having an article of his own? I find that hard to believe. All the refs say is that this guy impersonates Cash in a show in Branson. That does not confer notability. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 16:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. Looks like an attempt at promotion. We don't even list Elvis impersonators unless they have their own article. Rodhullandemu 16:47, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

The Man in Black

There's a discussion about The Man in Black (the disambiguation page), Man in Black (Cash's book), and what the proper naming and redirecting of said pages are going on at Talk:The Man in Black. Y'all should join in the discussion. Purplebackpack89 04:13, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Links to inofficial websites of the Johnny Cash fan community

I'd like to suggest the addition of an external link to a fan project that started in 2008 and now is the meeting point of especially the younger fans of Johnny Cash. It consists of 3 related websites: an information and news site, a discussion forum for inofficial recordings and a performances and recordings database. I think it's important to direct people not only to the official and corporate websites, but to the fan pages, too. They're 100% non-profit, ad-free and purely private. The first time I added the link, it was removed instantly, so I'd like to hear some ore opinions on this. The site in question is www.jcinfocenter.com with related sites www.ridethistrain.net and www.cashliverecordings.com. Thanks. UnderstoodMan (talk) 13:19, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Genres in infobox

The current genres in the infobox, Country, rock and roll, and gospel, are sufficient to cover his career. Yes, he played, and influenced, other forms of music, but we cannot list them all. I suggest that these three be maintained and that the list not be expanded. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 17:10, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

I'd agree with that but I'd also question "rock and roll" as belonging in there. He did not place himself in that genre, and neither did his contemporaries. As noted elsewhere, whether he or some element of his music influenced or was similar to rock and roll is not the same thing as playing rock and roll. And if he played a cover of a song, like say Hurt, in a manner different than its original, I'm not sure you can call that rock and roll either. I know this was discussed previously, but if you refer up the page, it didn't look like it was settled, it just descended into silly ad hominems. Can we give a little mroe basis to the "rock and roll" claim other than he met/knew/was around rock and roll people or influenced/was influenced by/ rock and roll elements? I find it hard to swallow that due weight falls in favor of the mindset that Johnny cash sang rock and roll. Country, gospel, americana would all be right on the money. I haven't altered it, just thought it should be settledJbower47 (talk) 23:31, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

His last recordings are best defined as "alternative rock". Ex: "Rowboat", "Rusty Cage", "Devil's Right Hand", "Hurt" etc.--Lost Fugitive (talk) 01:22, 5 March 2011 (UTC

I think that excluding "folk" is a poor idea. Cash often billed himself as a folk singer, especially in the '60s and again when he joined American Records. Looking at many of his concept albums and work with different folk artists it doesn't make sense to take folk off the list. Saul Holiff often billed Cash as a "folksinger" for his concerts. --Darth Septic (talk) 17:13, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

External links

There is an external links tag and after looking at those listed I am wondering if we can move any of those to a See also section? Otr500 (talk) 23:25, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Lets go for C-class

• Can we try to make this article a C-class? We have an article that was a former featured article with some problems so now we add more problems to make sure it never reaches that status again.
• If this is not the intent, and there are editors involved and/or watching this page, would someone please take a look at the external links section, that was already far too large, and now Find a Grave has been added!!!
• I can not fathom the imagination that would lead to thoughts that this external link has anything special to add, or adds anything to the value of the article at all, as there is amply information available as references for anything the site might offer.
• I would surmise, and probably correctly, that the unnecessary external links alone will prevent any possible future upgrade to the article. If I am not mistaken Find a Grave alone may prevent this. I would revert this on several points but it is not the only problem so I would present the courtesy of asking someone more involved to take a look.

  The rationale behind my comments are;

  • WP:ELPOINTS#3,
  • WP:LINKSTOAVOID#1
  • WP:LINKSTOAVOID#2
  • WP:LINKSTOAVOID#11; This is augmented by, "except those written by a recognized authority. (This exception for blogs, etc., controlled by recognized authorities is meant to be very limited; as a minimum standard, recognized authorities always meet Wikipedia's notability criteria for people.)". Otr500 (talk) 20:07, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
• The EL section needs to be halved. I BOLDly removed two but more still need to be rethought --Guerillero | My Talk 18:14, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Associated acts

I removed The Oak Ridge Boys from the associated acts, because they are never mentioned anywhere in the article. In the future, anything added to that section of the infobox should be discussed here or should at least be mentioned, with a source, in the article. ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 14:25, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Birth name?

Is his birth name really "J. R. Cash" - not "John R. Cash" or something? Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 19:21, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

OK, "JR" is right. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 16:13, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

The J R thing makes a nice story, but I have a copy of the 1940 census just released and it shows an 8 years old son of Ray Cash, Dyess Township, Arkansas,as being John R. Cash (8th name on the page). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tbirdbill (talk • contribs) 19:02, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Religious beliefs

Regarding the recent additions to the "religious beliefs" subsection, and my reversion of same, the John Carter-Cash book referred to needs to be formally cited, rather than just mentioned. The examples given are interesting, but there is no indication that any of that is actually in the book. This is why it is the responsibility of the editor who added said information to provide a quote from the book, and an actual citation, with page numbers, that clearly show this is sourced information, and not simply the editor's opinion. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 16:21, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

I posted the info. I own the book, as well as the audiobook mentioned. I also own his autobiography which states some stuff. I'm new to this sort of thing, and I'm not sure how to site. But I'll read up on it and work to get it back to stay. You can view/purchase anything mentioned at amazon.com. Darth Septic (talk) 18:53, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

If you post the relevant information here, we can clean it up and add a citation for it. That would be no problem. I hope I did not give the impression that I doubted your veracity, simply that more specific information, including quotes, were needed from the book(s) in question. Thanks for your response. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 20:49, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

I completely understand the need for verification. "The Eye of the Prophet" is written by Lebanese poet Kahil Gibran. who has a page on Wikipedia. By reading about Kahil Gibran, or reading any "product description" of the audiobook, one can see that the novel is a mesh of the three above-mentioned philosophical belief systems. As for the other information--I imagine posting the citation information for the book and the page number for the quote will suffice for information? Darth Septic (talk) 00:36, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

"Dad was not a judgmental type of Christian. He was open to people from all religious denominations. My father focused on the Bible as the source of his own Christian faith and did not lean so much on the offerings of any denomination in particular (Carter-Cash, p. 49)."

"[Johnny Cash] remained a Christian man of faith, and from this he never strayed, eventually becoming an ordained minister" (Carter-Cash, p. 46).

Carter-Cash, John. House of Cash: The Legacies of my Father, Johnny Cash. San Rafael, CA: Insight Editions, 2011. Print. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.193.119.254 (talk) 03:24, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Cash, Johnny. Unearthed Liner Notes.

On the song, "No Earthly Good" on page 50, Cash remarks "That's a song I wrote for phony pious Christians... And I don't like it, it makes me very angry, when charlatans abuse and misuse the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It's outrageous and totally uncalled-for." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.193.119.254 (talk) 03:34, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

So, I posted all this a long while back. The information can easily be verified as correct. Dose anyone plan on posting this stuff, or do I have to try doing it myself again? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darth Septic (talk • contribs) 03:22, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Out Of Place Sentence

In the middle of the section "Outlaw Image" is the sentence: "In 1967, Cash's duet with June Carter, "Jackson", won a Grammy Award." It's completely out of context of the material around it and should be moved.70.233.101.203 (talk) 13:09, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Source #9 is a dead link

(^ Fox JA (October 17, 2005). "The Boston Herald: Hard time's never a 'circus'". Baylor University. Retrieved March 22, 2010.)

The link to the source is no longer active. I really wanted to read it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Burwellrm (talk • contribs) 00:41, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism?

The lede appears to have some vandalism about zombies and kung fu--removing Micahmedia (talk) 21:26, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Wrong State Listed in Background Info.

In the Background Information summary it has "AK" (Alaska) instead of "AR" for Arkansas, which is where Cash was born. He's not Alaskan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.126.142.37 (talk) 20:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)