Talk:Johnny's Theme

Johnny's Theme has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: April 28, 2015. (Reviewed version).

A fact from Johnny's Theme appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 May 2015 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that "Johnny's Theme", beamed to Tonight Show viewers from 1962 to 1992, was a cover song of a cover song of a cover song?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2015/May. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Johnny's Theme.

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Class

I've gone ahead and rated this article Start-Class, largely due to its brevity. Trying to look at this as objectively as an author can, I believe I can make a strong argument for A-Class per the current rating criteria and project criteria, including:

it is essentially complete, barring any information yet to be located or published;
its notability is established;
its structure is correct and its writing is clear;
its sources, including CNN and JazzWax, are good if not strong;
the article includes cover art and an audio sample.

Meantime, like many editors, I periodically check everything on my watchlist for updates and/or repairs. —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 00:19, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Johnny's Theme/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Beatleswhobeachboys (talk · contribs) 19:29, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, ATinySliver! Decided I'd give this one a go.

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:
Good flow, easy to read

B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. Has an appropriate reference section:
The reference section should be organized differently; see "Band on the Run"

I have yet to find books/passages specific to the subject; new search in progress.

B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:
Sites like Amazon, Discogs, and Youtube aren't very trustworthy for info; books / articles by reputable organizations are more solid

Cites are specific to data that is non-controversial and can only be confirmed by the sites that compile them.

Anyone can edit / upload to these sites. Unless (for Youtube / Amazon) they are verified by a reliable source (ex. The Tonight Show's official channel), it could easily by false.

In progress. Amazon, Discogs and 45cat have been replaced per ALBUM/Sources by the actual publication data, which allows editors to search for confirmation. The two YouTube citations provide proof that musicians continued (through the access dates) to play the song; each is the official page/channel of the musicians/venue. —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 01:04, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

C. No original research:

Can you be specific?

Mostly in the infoboxes

Sorry, I'm lost; I see nothing in the infoboxes that isn't cited, either in the infoboxes (some are invisible) or in the body. Again, with apologies, can you be specific? (Meantime, one of them is now fixed.) —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 22:58, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Release date, genre, label, etc. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 01:46, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's all there, mostly in the body. In fact, per INFOBOXREF, only data that is not repeated in the body has visible refs in the infoboxes.

—ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 02:22, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:
The article is very brief and a lot of other topics are missing: Did it have an impact as a single? Did the show keep using the theme after Carson's departure? Its critical opinion / legacy should be mentioned as well.

In progress.

B. Focused:
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

Concerns

Sources are lacking: although it has a few reliable sources (CNN, Rapid City Journal, etc.), a lot aren't really super reliable.
The article is missing a few essential bits of information, mostly in the aftermath of the track's use. Some quotes from Anka or Carson would also help the article along. Expansion is definitely needed.

I'm sorry to say that the article, as of now, isn't up to the requirements. It has great flow and is stable, but it doesn't quite have the content and sources to justify a GA rank. With a little more reliable info, though, it probably get up to GA status. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 19:42, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Beatleswhobeachboys: I was rather under the impression that I had up to a seven-day process to work on your concerns, as opposed to an immediate fail. (More specifically, your review includes seven passes, three fails, and one "don't know".) I respectfully request that you withdraw "fail" in favor of "undetermined" and give me time to work on the nom, rather than re-list it for another review several more months down the line. —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 20:05, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

ATinySliver I changed it to undetermined. Sorry I was too hasty with the review - I generally like to go through an do the whole review at once when its fresh in my mind, but I should have left time to give you a chance to say something (by the way, the three fails are lacking pretty severely, so that's what led to my failing of the article). My apologies, once again: I haven't reviewed many GAs, so I'm a little inexperienced. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 20:51, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Much obliged. I have added some comments (and one question) above. —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 21:01, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Beatleswhobeachboys: I believe I have found everything encyclopedic that there is to find (on the other hand, I'd thought so before ), and I believe the article is up to snuff. Looking forward to addressing any additional concerns. —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 22:55, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- @ATinySliver: a definite improvement: still a little brief, but I believe that I can pass the article. Congratulations! Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 23:06, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Much obliged! As always, I will look periodically for any improvements.

—ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 23:39, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

1,400,000?

Anka estimated that "Johnny's Theme" was played live on Carson's Tonight Show more than 1,400,000 times over the course of 30 years.

If my math is correct, this would require that the theme be played nearly 200 times per episode. Anka's hyperbole notwithstanding, he said it, so it's in the article. —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 🖖 20:11, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Development and evolution

The song ends with a piece of another song: "Shave and a Haircut, Two Bits". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shave_and_a_Haircut#Usage Sadsaque (talk) 02:19, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Misleading attribution

The lead states: "The piece was composed by Paul Anka and Johnny Carson" yet "Johnny's Theme" is defined as an "instrumental jazz song." The only reference to Carson in the article is this: "Anka received a telephone call and was told that Tonight Show bandleader Skitch Henderson was angry because Carson wanted to use a theme song written by a "20-year-old kid." Anka said he then offered to let Carson write and publish new lyrics in order to claim a songwriter's credit". This is a formality about royalties and co-authored credit and does not correctly present the work as it is known: an instrumental jazz piece played by a big band at the beginning of the tonight show. When one searches for the "lyrics" for "Johnny's Theme" online they render "It's Really Love"; which is the song by Anka, adapted from his original instrumental "Toot Sweet". I cannot find anywhere the lyrics Carson supposedly wrote and published. Nor are there any recordings of "Johnny's Theme" sung with Caron's lyrics. I did find this contradicting recall: "Carson knew all about royalties and wanted to be listed as an author so, being a drummer, he said he would think of something to put at the beginning of Anka’s tune to “help author it.” That something turned out to be a little drum break before the band joins in. So for 6 – 7 years there was that one-bar drum break at the beginning of the theme. Eventually that little break was shortened even further to just one and a half beats."[1] Then there was this: "Anka commented on the Howard Stern show that the deal offered to him in 1962 was to let Johnny write the (never heard) lyrics to the song, splitting the royalties in half. He protested, but they told him “you can have 50% of something or 100% of nothing.” He took the former." Whatever the true story is, the statement: "The piece was composed by Paul Anka and Johnny Carson" is not correct. It should reflect what the true circumstances and reasons which brought about the "co-author" credit. Furthermore, it would seem that what is stated in the section 1962–92: The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson is not entirely factual (plus, the link is dead). Maineartists (talk) 14:47, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]