Talk:John Mason Loomis

Civil War Service

It seems Loomis' Civil War service could use a bit more coverage. For example, he was recommended for a promotion, to Brigadier General, twice, by General Ulysses S. Grant. While stationed in Missouri his wife, Mary Jane Hunt Loomis, accompanied him to the front lines and became head of the company of nurses. This is only a sampling. Loomis' involvement in the Civil War was extensive, and is well covered :

• U.S. Army, Together they served
• John Mason Loomis: A Colonel in a Kepi Hat
• Grace Episcopal Church

-- Gwillhickers (talk) 00:35, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

 Done The description of his riding up and down the battle line is awe inspiring. The Commandery (1901). Memorials of Deceased Companions of the Commandery of the State of Illinois. The Commandery. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:19, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Residence, death place, interment

The article says he was a resident of Ludington, Michigan. But see 55 Lake Shore Drive, Chicago, Illinois, John Mason Loomis residence, Ryerson & Burnham Archive Collection, Art Institute of Chicago.
It also said he was buried at Lakeview Cemetery in Ludington, and that was wrong, as he is at Rosehill Cemetery in Chicago. John Mason Loomis at Find a Grave. I checked the burial records at Lakeview Cemetery and he isn't there. That was wrong, so I have corrected the latter assertion.
Likewise, I have found a source that says he died in Chicago, not Ludington. I made a correction. Indeed, the thrust of The Commandery is that he was deeply involved in Chicago and its institutions. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 10:59, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Obituaries

Our citations don't include any. This is odd. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:25, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Will keep my eyes open. No doubt there was one, or some, but fining any 119 years later may prove difficult if not impossible. Re: the 'Find a Grave' citation: These are routinely removed by at least one reviewer at DYK and are considered a non reliable source, unfortunately. Also, "Rosehill Cemetery" is not mentioned at the 'Together they Served' website, which is used for the citation along with Find a Grave. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 22:30, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

The find a grave pictures prove reliable. I know that this citation is reliable. I know about Wikipedia's practice about Find a Grave, but I note that it is actually what they do. The pictures are seemingly reliability, unless somebody claims (and proves) they were photoshopped. I doubt that. 'Policy' ought to give way to overwhelming proof and common sense. So, whatever. It isn't my DYK, anyway. The "Together they served" citation says he died in Chicago. I'm not interested in arguing about B.S. Done here. Cheers. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:23, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

• IMO, 'Find a Grave' is a reliable source. Merely wanted to point out that if used to cite an item (e.g."Rosehill Cemetery") in the main text there's a good chance it will be pulled, esp by one DYK reviewer who seems to be on patrol for such cites – speaking from my own experience, as I've tried to use Find A Grave to cite items, and have had the cite, and text, removed more than once. Just so we know. I've no desire to remove anything. However, there is a Find A Grave template for use in an External Links section, with an explanation about where and when to use and not use it, as was done here in that section. Thanx. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 21:29, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
• Chances of finding an Obit' will only occur it seems if we can find the right newspaper that will allow searches of its archives. Seems like a long shot, but I'm going to give it a try. Best, -- Gwillhickers (talk) 21:29, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

You and I agree. Reason should rule, but there are those who have an unthinking interpretation and application of what the claim is consensus. Can't do anything about that.... 7&6=thirteen (☎) 22:05, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Not relevant

While stationed in Missouri, "Of note is that Colonel Loomis’ wife Mary accompanied her husband to the front and became head of a company of nurses." I differ with that analysis. But I won't edit war over that. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:26, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

• Loomis' wife, Mary, involvement on the front lines with her husband, head of a company nurses, is intriguing, in terms of historical context, to say the least, and, imo, reflects on Loomis' person directly. This is the woman he married. If anything, this statement belongs in the Personal life section. I would restore this statement. History is best represented with surrounding context. When I first read this item, I was sort of punched in the nose with something I never thought would have happened. IMO, this fact, one statement, is amazing, and would be a gleaming facet in this biography, an article about the person. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 05:04, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

• Added back in info on Colonel Loomis' wife being in charge of a group of a nurses without it being a quote. I put the info in using my own words.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:50, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Further reading

Below are some sources found at archive.org. John M. Loomis, along with a good number of other uses of the Loomis name. (e.g.Judge Loomis,  Loomis Building,  F. Loomis & Co.,  etc) can be found throughout this three volume work — esp in Volume II. Available for download as searchable PDF files. Hope they're of good use. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 21:29, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

• Andreas, Alfred Theodore (1884). History of Chicago. From the earliest period to the present time, Vol I. Chicago, A. T. Andreas.
• Andreas, Alfred Theodore (1885). History of Chicago. From the earliest period to the present time, Vol II. Chicago, A. T. Andreas.
• Andreas, Alfred Theodore (1886). History of Chicago. From the earliest period to the present time, Vol III. Chicago, A. T. Andreas.

Loomis married Mary Hunt,

Removed paragraph content of "In "1850 Loomis married Mary Hunt........" because that is inaccurate and unnecessary information. First, it does not belong in the Early life and education sub-section. According to the two book references (reliable sources) Loomis married Mary Hunt in 1849. His successful lumber business is explained in detail in the Sub-section Business career. The fact They had at least two children together, but they all died during infancy is explained in much detail in the Personal life sub-section when I originally created the article. Here it is explained about the history of the Loomis Institute and how that became the Loomis Chaffee School in 1874.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 09:57, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Older brother article

James Chaffee Loomis is John's brother, (according to the Find a Grave link on his article) the oldest of the siblings and presumably one of those involved with creating the Institute/School? I couldn't immediately see any sources that mention both names, so didn't add wlinks to and from. JennyOz (talk) 13:30, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Confused on Ludington and Pere Marquette city names and timeline

To Doug Coldwell I'm back with some questions on Mr. Loomis. I don't know where you find these guys, but I enjoy learning about them.

1. Loomis originally partnered with Ludington, the same individual whom the Michigan town is named after, although he never set foot there. How did Loomis' original business get "destroyed?" Did Ludington do it? = NO. The way I understand it is that Mr. Ludington was very wealthy, so was just a silent partner (involved with finances, not management) with the original partnership business of "Loomis & Ludington". Whoever was managing the Chicago business (several men I assume) when Colonel Loomis was fighting in the Civil War are the ones that mismanaged the firm and destroyed the business.

I will try to answer the questions the best I can. First, I live in Ludington, Michigan - a transplant from San Diego by way of Ashville, North Carolina. Long story that starts in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

I'll start with this from the Ludington article -

The town was originally named Pere Marquette, then later named after the industrialist James Ludington, whose logging operations the village developed around. Ludington was incorporated as a City in 1873, the same year that the County seat was moved from the Village of Lincoln to the City of Ludington. The area boom in the late 19th century was due to these sawmills and also the discovery of salt deposits.

It so happens that a long time ago I scanned in the Hanna Book Sand, Sawdust, and Saw Logs. Scan your mouse slowly over the images to get the page numbers. Page 26 best describes the time of 1869 when the Pere Marquette Lumber Company was formed, with Loomis being the firm's treasurer and Mr. Ludington's attorney.

Page 249 Hotchkiss book reads, This old and well known lumbering company was organized July 24 1869 the members composing it being DL Filer president, John Mason Loomis treasurer, James Ludington, LH Foster secretary and A Foster and the capital stock was 500,000 (equivalent to $9,721,000 in 2020).

2. What is the timeline of Pere Marquette the city becoming Ludington? It's not clear whether the Pere Marquette company was formed in its eponymous city or in Ludington. But then we attribute the efforts of the company in making the transition to Ludington MI. It appears from the existing content that the Mason County seat moved to Ludington, not Pere Marquette. But the final sentence in the section says the success of the Pere Marquette Co. influenced the name change to Marquette.

The Mason County county seat was moved from the village of Lincoln to the city of Ludington in 1873. It so happens I have the Peterson book (ref #6 and #7) and here is a picture I just took of pages 46 and 47.

3. Was James Ludington involved in any of this? Or had he slipped away?

My understanding is the Mr. Ludington wanted the village of Pere Marquette to be called Ludington and was the driving force behind the idea of a name change. This shows on Peterson's (2001) book "The Story of Ludington" page 45.

4. See 1. If Ludington destroyed Loomis' business, why get back together?

No, Ludington did NOT destroy Loomis's business. Actually they were always on very good terms, as I see it in these various books.

• Where can I help more. I probably can get the answer to any question about this, as I have access to many associated books.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:53, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Help!Offline for a while to recharge the battery. Cleveland Todd (talk) 18:49, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

References

A couple more questions

To @Doug Coldwell: Hey Doug. A couple more.

• 1. Early Life. What is John Loomis' relationship with his ancestor Joseph Loomis?

• Don't know. Goes back too far. In the Loomis genealogy book it says Joseph was born in England before 1590.

• 2. Military Service. Captain in state milita. Which state? Connecticut?

• Yes, Connecticut.

• 3. Military Service. St. Louis Globe Democrat. ...-valiantly and recklessly-.... Is that a direct quote? Should be in quotation marks if it is.

• I don't recall that I actually added that. I think another editor did. I can not find that as a direct quote anywhere.

However researching that in Historical Newspapers the closes I found to that is of Brave and gallant.

@Cleveland Todd: Found the St. Louis Globe Democrat article that talks of this and the words "valiantly and recklessly" are NOT used, so it is not a quote, but just words of a Wikipedia editor. I added that newspaper clip reference at the end of the sentence.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:17, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

• 4. Military Service. When I was looking for the direct quote (3. above) I noted that Loomis commanded five brigades and one division during the war. That's impressive; should we include it?

• Yes. If you still have that info - go ahead and add it. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:40, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

• • @Doug Coldwell: Doug - I added content on his commands in the article and lede, also the fact that W.T. Sherman recommended him for Brigadier General. Col. Loomis must have irritated someone to get rejected after those endorsements. Should you let User:Eddie891 know more changes have been made? Cleveland Todd (talk) 13:53, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

@Cleveland Todd:  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:25, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

• 5. Do we know anything about his kids?

I put in article, Loomis and his three brothers and one sister lost their children within their lifetimes. This led them to form the Loomis Institute...

Looking good.

• Cleveland Todd (talk) 19:12, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
• @Cleveland Todd: Thanks for looking over the article. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:40, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:John Mason Loomis/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Eddie891 (talk · contribs) 20:53, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Can review Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 20:53, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

• Imgs look good Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:38, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
•  Done

• Lede could be expanded a couple sentences
•  Done Expanded lead.

• "the colonial forces" can you specify what these forces were?
•  Done copy edited to say, "John Loomis was named after a prominent officer in the colonial forces of the Connecticut Colony who was distinguished for his gallantry during the French and Indian War."

The source says, The parents of John Mason Loomis were James Loomis a native of Windsor who was a farmer merchant and miller who also served for many years as Colonel of First Regiment of Connecticut State Militia being a public spirited man having an for military duties and Abigail Sherwood Chaffee Loomis a native of Greenfield Hill Fairfield County Connecticut the descendant of a family of very high social standing. Their son was named John Mason after a very prominent officer in the colonial forces who was distinguished for his gallantry during the continuous wars with the Indian tribes.

• "In 1869 the Pere Marquette Lumber Company of Ludington" I thought Ludington didn't exist when the company was founded?
•  Done Copy edited accordingly

• "When he was 18, Loomis became a captain in the state militia. He became a Navy midshipman, but became" can you rephrase to repeat 'became' less?
•  Done Copy edited accordingly

• "several influential men in Chicago" would it be possible to name them?
•  Done The source only says, To this request, backed by the earnest appeals of influential citizens of Chicago, Mr. Loomis responded with a favorable answer...

• could you link "Indian Wars of New England"
•  Done Removed this paragraph, as this has already been said in Early life.

• "not considered a politician, was active in the selection of good men for office" not considered by who, and could you clarify his involvement in selecting 'good' men for office?
•  Done Source doesn't say anything other than, is active in the selection of good men for office and the securing of good government.

• @Eddie891: Addressed the issues above. Can you take a look. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 17:09, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
• @Eddie891: User:Cleveland Todd (of GOCE) has recently made some additional improvements.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:22, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

• Some more to come... Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 21:03, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

• As far as sourcing goes, what makes "Together We Served.com" and "http://gracechurchonthegreen.org/" reliable sources? Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:39, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

• I'll get replacement references for those ASAP. I'll start on that today. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 09:25, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
• @Eddie891: Replaced "Together We Served.com" and Grace Church with reliable sources. Can You take another look. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:52, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

  OK, seems reasonable now. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 12:01, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Copyright contributor investigation and Good article reassessment

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